The Collar: History and Symbolism 8/10/09

[07:02] Zealot Benmergui: OK, we will give latecomers a few minutes, then after that, we go up and pillage their villages and steal their women
[07:02] ***SW***: Remember it's pillage THEN burn
[07:02] ***vP***: lol
[07:03] Zealot Benmergui writes that on a post it note
[07:04] ***MS*** giggles. So we shoot now, ask ***pQ***ons later?
[07:05] Zealot Benmergui: Absolutely
[07:06] Zealot Benmergui: OK, if everyone could find seats, or the closest equivilant, we can get started in a moment
[07:08] Zealot Benmergui: OK, lets go ahead and get started...lots to cover, ann then we have group sex afterwards
[07:08] Zealot Benmergui: Welcome A/all to the House of V’s College of Kink. My name is Zealot Benmergui, Baron BardHaven and I will be your host today. Some of you may know me from lecturing here at House of V and other locations around the grid. Others of you may know me from my recent book tour, autographing copies of my most recent autobiography, “The DaVinci Cock – The harrowing almost-true life story of an undercover transvestite metrosexual sodomite in Vatican City and the Pope who loved him.”
[07:10] Zealot Benmergui: The topic for today is The Collar: History and Symbolism and we will be looking a little bit at the tradition of collaring, what it means and what it doesn’t mean in a D/s relationship. Please note that for the purpose of clarity, I will tend to use “she” to refer to a submissive and “he” to refer to a Dominant, but either can be of any gender. Your humble lecturer WILL accept tips, but they must be paid to me directly, if you are so inclined, thank you.
[07:11] Zealot Benmergui: Historically, collars have been used to denote slavery in its myriad forms since before the age of Rome, and in fact many museums from around the world have excellent examples of them on display…unscripted of course, and few if any have things like Lord MongrelCock’s Naughty Little Taxbreak inscribed on them. The term Collar was originally Latin, Collare, which became ***CF***r in Middle English in the 14th Century.
[07:11] Zealot Benmergui: A later related term, Coffle, was coined in the 1700s for a series of Collars connected in a chain. Not to be confused of course with a Quaffle Coffle, which is a series of six Hogwort’s students being fucking on broomsticks.
[07:12] Zealot Benmergui: Or fucked BY broomsticks, Rowling was never clear and anyway, she was distracted trying to find her panties
[07:12] ***pQ*** giggles at the sudden visual
[07:13] Zealot Benmergui: In reality Coffles and the Collars we have discussed thus far were all used by the formal slave trade, which usually involved brutal labor and rapid death…and not many sets of silks or orgasms. However, there IS a historical precedence for the collar as a symbol of a person being owned sexually or controlled by another, just as there is historical precedence for certain subs being Slut Toys.
[07:13] Zealot Benmergui: The collar, in the context most of you likely see it in, as a neckpiece of leather, metal or both designed to be used both as a restraint and a symbol of slavery or submission, actually comes down to us mainly from literature and entertainment, especially the large metal forms covered in D rings.
[07:14] Zealot Benmergui: or other spikey bits
[07:14] Zealot Benmergui: For one thing, in historic practice large metal collars tended to be unworkable for daily use (except in transport) for most real slaves as they tended to get in the way and cause potentially fatal neck ulcerations, despite what we may see in old Steve Reeves movies. Same with all that baby oil. Just didn’t happen much on the road from Kush to Ninevah. If you expect the collar to flat out kill your sub, you are one tough assed Dominant indeed.
[07:15] Zealot Benmergui: The first solid source of modern collar imagery comes from what I feel is the Ur-text of modern D/s (ignore the awful movie version), Histoire d'O or The Story of O, written by Dominique Aury
[07:15] Zealot Benmergui: aka Pauline Réage
[07:16] Zealot Benmergui: aka Anne Desclos.
[07:16] Zealot Benmergui: Apparently to write smut in the 50s, you needed LOTS of names. It was published in French in 1955, and the author was brought up on obscenity charges, which were eventually dismissed. It was critically acclaimed in France, much like Jerry Lewis, but not published in English until 1965.
[07:17] ***SS***: Z, I brought a friend, ***CF***
[07:17] Zealot Benmergui: Fortunetly however, it was availkable int he french version in England, so school boys were able to improve there french verbs while jerking off.
[07:17] ***CF*** chuckles
[07:18] ***SS***: Wow, I missed a lot
[07:18] Zealot Benmergui: Welcome...have a seat...we just got to the schoolboys jerking off point....so you're in luck
[07:18] ***CF***: lol
[07:18] ***vP***: loool
[07:18] ***SS***: woopsie
[07:18] Zealot Benmergui: I won’t go into the plot here, and if you haven’t read it you should or watch the cartoon version every Saturday morning on ABC this season…but it brought the concept of sexual domination into the modern consciousness. That book made the collar, and BDSM in general, an established “kink”, both in porn and popular understanding. It was now something bad girls did. Classy, arty bad girls. The best kind.
[07:19] Zealot Benmergui: In no small part we owe modern BDSM and D/s to The Story of O...both the best and most beautiful parts and the somewhat brutal silly parts as well.
[07:19] ***XF***: i have read that good book
[07:19] Zealot Benmergui: Beyond The Story of O, modern collars also owe major debts to Norman’s Gor books, begun in the 1960s, and the gay leather movement of the 70s which was looking for a dramatic, visceral symbol of the master/slave dynamic. Both were major parts of promoting collars as a modern day sex toy and also made them infamous in mainstream culture, porn and in junior high school bathrooms worldwide.
[07:20] Zealot Benmergui: Sources like that connected to what both we in the lifestyle and the mainstream envision when we discuss a BDSM collar, but not really to what they mean in modern D/s relationships. D/s as a lifestyle is far more diverse now then was ever imagined in Gor or Roissey and encompasses lots of different personalities, goals and fetishes. Of course, there are people who are involved in Gorean relationships or strict power exchange as was part of Story of O, but the majority of people are involved in Chinese Menu style D/s…one from Column A, two from Column B. Therefore, the meaning and significance of collars can vary.
[07:21] Zealot Benmergui: Not to mention LOTS of Fortune Cookies
[07:22] ***SS***: but in O, it was her will to please Rene, and then Stephen more than it was her choice to give herself to one, or many in her case
[07:22] Zealot Benmergui: To people who are just involved in BDSM as a sexual kink, likely amongst many kinks they enjoy, a collar is just a toy used to hold someone in place. To someone involved in Domination and submission, a collar is a symbol of commitment or a statement of being part of the D/s lifestyle, to a Mistress and slave, it is ownership…for some, it is all three or any combination thereof...or like, just a really bitchin’ choker.
[07:22] Zealot Benmergui: Nods...things have developed since O...but the basic language that we use tends to derive from O
[07:22] ***PM*** chuckles at the analogy
[07:23] ***SS***: and it was a ring for her once the "initiation was completed, and of course the brand"
[07:23] Zealot Benmergui: nods....both of which have been mainly lost....some people do use rings in rl, a few even brands
[07:24] ***SS***: isn't that what a wedding band is?
[07:24] ***SS*** giggles
[07:24] Zealot Benmergui: but the Collar has become the cominant symbol..mainly because it is more unusal and sexy...and doesn;t involve burning flesh
[07:24] ***CF***: lol
[07:24] Zealot Benmergui: *domiant
[07:24] Zealot Benmergui: *dominant
[07:24] ***pQ*** is all for avoiding burning flesh
[07:24] Zealot Benmergui: there, damn it
[07:24] ***XF***: no thats the tird ring of marriage - suffering lmao
[07:24] ***vP***: lol
[07:24] ***PM*** rubs Phe's thigh and grins
[07:24] Zealot Benmergui: and we will get to weeding rings in a minute, darling ***SS***
[07:24] ***SS***: they also use the alternative of Tattooing now
[07:25] ***vP***: ouch
[07:25] ***pQ*** considers needles and thinks maybe burning won't be so bad
[07:25] Zealot Benmergui: wedding..sorry folds, these are loaner hands, my own were hacked off by rabid weasals last night at a basketball game
[07:25] ***CF***: lol
[07:26] ***CF***: When will the government do something about the rabid weasel menace?
[07:26] Zealot Benmergui: Tattoos are also tricky, since what do you do if the relationship goes bad, or you marry someone later on who doesn;t nessacerily want your thigh to say LordNoxious' Fucktoy
[07:26] ***SS*** giggles
[07:26] Zealot Benmergui: or what if you become a nun?
[07:26] ***XF*** whispers: long pants???
[07:26] ***vP***: ahahahaa
[07:26] ***pQ***: whiteout?
[07:26] Zealot Benmergui: most convents actually require sisters to be in the nude once the doors are closed
[07:26] ***SS***: then you are enslaved to god, and the house of religion all the priests that aren't gay
[07:27] ***SS***: did I say that out loud?
[07:27] ***XF***: what????
[07:27] Zealot Benmergui: so you change the tattoo to read Jesus' Fucktoy?
[07:27] ***XF***: lmfaoi
[07:27] ***SS***: ooo mhmm
[07:27] ***vP***: is a catholic believes what Popes says...
[07:27] Zealot Benmergui: last thing I heard a Pope say was "No teeth, just lips, ya punta"
[07:28] ***vP***: right:P
[07:28] ***SS*** chuckles
[07:28] Zealot Benmergui: anyway, now that I have valiated my ticket to hell again, going on
[07:28] ***vP***: i ll use lips next time i promise:P
[07:28] ***XF***: omg
[07:28] ***XF***: lmfao roflmfao
[07:28] ***SS***: if I may Z
[07:28] Zealot Benmergui: please Seera dear
[07:28] Zealot Benmergui holds out his ticket
[07:29] ***SS***: the symbolisim, of a D/s relationship, is what the two put into it, what they believe it to be, some insist on a collar, ring, or brand... tattoo...
[07:29] ***XF***: well atleast it was just a ticket
[07:29] Zealot Benmergui: nods....exactly, which we will be coming to
[07:29] ***vP***: give her your ticket:P
[07:30] Zealot Benmergui: In Second Life and through the online BDSM community the Collar tends to take on even greater significance. With the lack of direct physical contact, and often limited time, symbols such as collars can become a vital lifeline and connection between Dominant and submissive. They can become a reminder of an often tenuous and hard to define relationship. In addition, certain collars may have certain roles.
[07:30] ***XF***: ticket for the spot he is in i think he was trying to be polite
[07:31] ***SS***: others it's the inner devotion of what they believe, most of the realism of the commitment is with the women, and how they feel... personally, I believe in devotion, honor, and dedication towards him....no ring, brand, collar, or anything else will bring that to anyone
[07:31] ***vP***: raises her hand...
[07:31] Zealot Benmergui: Polite, since when...I thought she could validate it for me...kerPUNCH
[07:31] Zealot Benmergui: Yes ***vP***dear
[07:31] ***vP***: about collars... isnt it a way to tell to other... stay away this one belongs to me?
[07:31] Zealot Benmergui: Some use it that way, certainly
[07:32] ***vP***: this is what i saw from most of Masters in here
[07:32] ***SS***: do collars always look, like they do here?
[07:32] ***XF***: no there a tad more realistic i rl
[07:32] ***SS***: some subs, slaves are not "retricted" not even in real
[07:32] Zealot Benmergui: Some women also wear dummy collars to dissuade trolls, Doms who climb into their IM box with "KNEEL SLUT FOR I AM MORGOTH THE UNSHRIVEN AND I WANT SOME POONTANG
[07:32] ***SS***: See that is another thing
[07:32] ***vP***: ouch
[07:33] ***CF***: I think it's more effective to have the sub's heart tell the others to stay away. ;)
[07:33] ***vP***: so fuckin right
[07:33] ***SS***: I had someone speak to me, wnating something
[07:33] ***SS***: it is my right, and will, to say yes or no
[07:33] ***XF***: omfg
[07:33] ***SS***: so I said no
[07:33] ***SS***: cause I can
[07:33] ***SS***: so many think, a collar means weakness
[07:34] ***CF***: Takes a lot of inner strength to kneel, it should be respected.
[07:34] ***SS***: it means a woman is "allowing" herself to be what she wants to be, the level of comfort, she desires"
[07:34] ***PM***: If it is a true Master with a true connection the sub will want to kneel and obey, otherwise it is only words
[07:34] ***vP***: agrees
[07:34] ***XF***: so wh ya collar???
[07:34] ***SS***: Pakur... does that also mean you are always called Master?
[07:34] Zealot Benmergui: smiles
[07:35] ***PM***: when I rp in Gor yes
[07:35] ***SS***: or Sir from every slave?
[07:35] ***SS***: Gor, "spits"
[07:35] ***PM***: otherwise it depends
[07:35] ***PM***: you don't have to agree with me my dear
[07:35] ***vP***: someone yeled on me cause i didnt call him Sir at HoV...
[07:35] ***SS***: I don't
[07:35] ***SS*** smiles
[07:35] ***PM***: but you are being rather rude
[07:35] Zealot Benmergui: OK, lets slow down for a second..all of this is excellent, but lets get through some more points first
[07:35] Zealot Benmergui: especially before we all start spitting
[07:35] ***vP***: lol
[07:35] ***SS***: I did already, sorry Z
[07:36] Zealot Benmergui: s'ok...you looked good doing it
[07:36] Zealot Benmergui: going on...
[07:36] Zealot Benmergui: There are such things as Collars of Consideration which some people use when thinking if a relationship suits both parties, or a Collar of Training for a learning situation. There is also a Collar of Protection, which some subs use mainly to hold off other Dominants offering them collars, or banging them on the head with virtual clubs and forcing them on them if they are in a bad Gorean RP. Finally, a Formal Collar is usually considered to be a permanent expression of submission or slavery.
[07:36] Zealot Benmergui: As ***SS*** rightly noted, Collars are not required equipment. Many D/s relations do not involve a public collar at all, depending on mutual agreement and acceptance of the Dom/sub relationship without requiring such public statements. Each relationship varies, but the Collar is almost always a major symbol, for better or worse.
[07:37] Zealot Benmergui: To all who wear one, or give one, a collar is a potent and powerful symbol of possession, or commitment, or pleasure…or even of personal preference or style. In the end, that symbol can be anything, not just a neck piece. Collars tend to be easiest however since they are more or less accepted as the de facto BDSM relationship symbol, like a kinky wedding ring. Some people opt also to use a real world counterpart for the Sl collar, be it an actual collar or another piece of jewelry.
[07:38] Zealot Benmergui: Therefore, the nature of a collar is highly individual, changing depending on the people involved, and the nature of their relationship. There is no RIGHT or WRONG collar. What works for one person may be anathema to another and what turns one girl on may turn another off, and cause yet a third to contact the FBI. However, I have a few thoughts on what characteristics make for a successful collaring, and which to avoid.
[07:40] Zealot Benmergui: First of all, a Collar (or the agreement behind one) should be a serious step in a relationship, whatever the relationship. It should be given only after a great deal of contemplation and thought and much discussion. ..and never until things are quite certain and well understood. When a formal collar is offered and accepted, there should be no surprises or secrets if possible…it is the end of one phase of a relationship and the beginning of a new one. We have all seen the chaos caused by collars given too casually, and then removed too easily. Such behavior undermines the entire structure of D/s in that it cheapens something which many hold to be sacred. The term Velcro Collar is now generally accepted, and hated in D/s like Brussels sprouts at the day care center. Think of such a collar as getting married three times, in a week.
[07:40] Zealot Benmergui: To the same person.
[07:41] Zealot Benmergui: Secondly, a collar should not be given quickly. I know we are all brought up on the concept of whirlwind courtships and getting swept off our feet…but in practical terms getting swept off your feet means you are about to fall down the stairs. Falling hard for someone is a great excuse to spend the weekend lashed to the couch getting your brains fucked out…not a good reason to accept a collar.
[07:42] Zealot Benmergui: Again, think of a collar like a wedding ring, and remember what we are taught by television about accepting sudden proposals in a wave of excitement. You will soon either be an alibi, or a plot device after asking “Honey, what is this big blood soaked mailbag doing in the back of your boat?” or “Why no, I have never thought about bearing Satan’s child, why?”
[07:42] Zealot Benmergui: Lastly, both parties should be sure what it means to them, and what it means to the other person involved. I have seen too many couples torn apart because one expected a collar to mean something the other wouldn’t have even thought of. Symbols are great, as long as they mean the same to all involved…otherwise what is supposed to give unity and security will just sow confusion and pain, and not the GOOD kinds of confusion and pain
[07:43] Zealot Benmergui: Collars are often spoken of by submissives as their starry eyed goal, the way some people in real-life crave a white picket fence or Megan Fox covered in cocoa powder. One should never lose sight of the fact that a collar should be an expression of a mature, full relationship between a Dom and a sub, not as a replacement for the same.
[07:43] Zealot Benmergui: Now then, lets go back to some of the points that were being raised...
[07:44] Zealot Benmergui: mainly of the fact that a Collar is something that SYMBOLIZES a relationship...some people use them, some don;t
[07:44] Zealot Benmergui: I have given two collars in SL over 4 years....
[07:44] ***vP***: speachless for the first time...
[07:44] Zealot Benmergui: but have been Dominant in many relationship that had no need for such formal symbols
[07:45] Zealot Benmergui: Collars are often seen as a way to mark someone, perhaps make clear that no one else is to be with them or play with them...
[07:46] Zealot Benmergui: so Collars are more often found in Exclusive or semi-exclusive relationships...it doesn;t mean the emotions involved in other relationships are less valid, just less in need of a physical symbol
[07:46] Zealot Benmergui: And of course, collars take on different meanings depending on the community
[07:47] Zealot Benmergui: in Gor, a colar means something different then they do here at House of V, for example
[07:47] Zealot Benmergui: How many of you have actually worn a collar online?
[07:47] Zealot Benmergui: or given one
[07:48] ***pQ***: has worn three, and one of consideration, in two years
[07:48] Zealot Benmergui: What did they mean to you?
[07:49] ***CF***: It was an outward expression of an inward reality. It's a symbol - not to mention, the easiest way to get the animations in one place.
[07:49] ***pQ***: a commitment beyond the level of casual relationship ... i have worn them in and out of Gor... the meaning changes with the relationship. love, commitment, ownership, obedience... many things
[07:50] Zealot Benmergui: nods..would you say each one was different?
[07:50] ***pQ***: as individual as the people involved in the relationship
[07:50] ***pQ***: and as unique as their relationship
[07:51] ***CF*** smiles
[07:51] Zealot Benmergui: nods..exactly...Collars can mean vastly different things depoending on what we wish them to
[07:51] ***vP***: worn someones collar only for 3 days and now i have my own for personal reasons
[07:51] Zealot Benmergui: People tend to ASSUME a collar has one or two meanings..depending on their views on BDSM
[07:51] Zealot Benmergui: nods...you have one to wear when you feel that NOT being collared will make you stand ou, or put you under pressure?
[07:52] ***vP***: its more for protection and rp
[07:52] Zealot Benmergui: nods
[07:52] ***vP***: i always have it but invisible
[07:52] Zealot Benmergui: the same sort of concept...and such dummy collars are actually quite common
[07:52] ***pQ***: being an uncollared sub is very stressful... in Gor impossible, but even out of it, hard
[07:53] ***vP***: exactly
[07:53] Zealot Benmergui: Well, it opens you to the normal concept..So if you are submissive, you will fuck any body who calls you names right?
[07:53] ***vP***: i have more than 5 offers per day to be collared by someone i dont even know
[07:53] ***vP***: of course not
[07:54] ***pQ***: chuckles thinking of the last time someone took that approach
[07:54] Zealot Benmergui: People, even in the lifestyle, often assume an uncollared sub is an AVAILABLE sub
[07:54] ***vP***: nods
[07:54] Zealot Benmergui: or that they spend their nights praying for some guy in a bad hair style and chaps to come along, collar them, and then ignore them while they play WoW
[07:54] ***vP***: but as i can see... wearing a collar doesnt work at the end
[07:55] ***CF*** chuckles
[07:55] Zealot Benmergui: how so, vita?
[07:56] ***zA***: no it do not ***vP***i know some would take it off and put there on in gor
[07:56] ***vP***: theyuse to read profiles you have to wear collar write there that you have a master
[07:56] ***vP***: or they touches my collar to see who is my master
[07:56] Zealot Benmergui: you need to make a line in your minds between D/s and Gor
[07:57] ***vP***: most of the times i have to be rude or bratt or... bitch to avoid them
[07:57] Zealot Benmergui: Gor is a seperate animal and deserves it;s own attention
[07:57] Zealot Benmergui: smiles at vita...Yes, planty of people who come to D/s sims are complete asshats and very rude
[07:57] ***SW*** raising a hand to ask a ***pQ***on, showing my ignorance proudly
[07:57] Zealot Benmergui: and no collar will stop them
[07:58] ***vP***: smiles shilly
[07:58] Zealot Benmergui: not even putting in your profile that you are exclusive protpery of yoru Master who is a former professional wrestler currently working on training Bolivian hit squads to be tougher
[07:58] ***DM***: and to me those arent true doms...they have no honor or repsect
[07:59] ***vP***: laughts
[07:59] ***pQ***: predators
[07:59] Zealot Benmergui: end story
[07:59] Zealot Benmergui: they want to get laid....
[07:59] ***DM***: lol
[07:59] ***vP***: so i ll be bitch and bratt for life time
[07:59] Zealot Benmergui: and at this point, BDSM is mainstream sexuality in SL
[07:59] ***DM***: sad but true
[07:59] ***vP***: waits for Sean's ***pQ***on...
[08:00] Zealot Benmergui: No, you will have to stand up for your rights and self whther you are sub or Dom, gay or straight, partnered or free....that;s life, vita
[08:00] ***XF***: yes witing
[08:00] ***CF***: No doubt you'll be called a bitch by many a moron whose only dominant stroke is the word "Master" over his name.
[08:00] ***DM*** agrees with Sir ***CF***
[08:00] ***SW***: In SL, are collars not more ... I hesitate to use the word "dangerous", but open to abuse? Or does the wearer have SOME degree of control over them?
[08:00] Zealot Benmergui: often several masters above their name
[08:00] ***vP***: i can live with it Sir ***CF***:)
[08:00] ***DM***: or be made to ***pQ***on Your submissiveness
[08:01] Zealot Benmergui: Master Dominant Masterly Masterguy
[08:01] ***pQ***: laughs
[08:01] ***DM***: superdupermaster
[08:01] ***CF***: lmao
[08:01] ***SW***: Master of Masters
[08:01] ***XF***: where is peoples capital for the M
[08:01] ***XF***: lmao
[08:01] ***vP***: thegreatfuckermaster
[08:01] ***DM*** is a superdupersub lol
[08:01] ***CF***: Fantastic ***pQ***on, Sean
[08:02] ***vP***: and i am wonderwoman Di ahahahaha
[08:02] ***DM***: lol
[08:02] Zealot Benmergui: I have enough trouble remember to capitilize my own name, I don;t worry about any one elses
[08:02] ***DM***: :P
[08:02] ***XF***: giggles
[08:02] Zealot Benmergui: OK, this is unique to Sl Sean
[08:02] Zealot Benmergui: the concept of scripts
[08:02] ***DM*** waits for the answer to Sir Seans ***pQ***on
[08:02] Zealot Benmergui: most collars have a whole bunch of scripts running that do all sorts of things
[08:02] ***XF***: yes very intrigued??
[08:02] ***pQ***: rlv
[08:03] Zealot Benmergui: can anyone just claim control? No, not if you set it right
[08:03] Zealot Benmergui: but most collars also come with features that some people use..I find them distasteful
[08:03] ***XF***: what ?? do you mean set it right?
[08:03] ***vP***: offers a collar to Sir Sean:D
[08:03] ***DM***: pointless thing that rlv....to me anyway
[08:03] Zealot Benmergui: such as logging your subs activities or IMs or being able to know where they are at all times
[08:03] ***pQ***: very easy to be abused, using it, in the wrong hands
[08:04] Zealot Benmergui: if I need that kind of information from a spy script, then why am I with the woman to begin with?
[08:04] ***DM***: submission shouldnt have to be monitored...its a gift given freely
[08:04] ***vP***: right
[08:04] ***CF***: Spot on, Z
[08:04] ***DM*** agrees
[08:04] ***SW***: So a person wearing a collar isn't saying "Come and get me" to all around him/her?
[08:04] ***vP***: i just collared Sr Sean looool
[08:04] Zealot Benmergui: By set it right, all collars can be set to either respond to no one but the wearer, to people on a list of Woners, or to anyone who clicks it
[08:04] ***DM***: no Sir Sean
[08:04] ***MS***: /raises her hand to make a comment.
[08:04] ***vP***: nope Sir
[08:04] Zealot Benmergui: yess Miss***MS***
[08:05] ***SW***: Thank you vita
[08:05] ***vP***: a girl wears collar says dont touch me you gonna lose a hand
[08:05] ***CF***: Usually quite the opposite, Sean.
[08:05] ***MS***: Well, I know some subs like to be controlled in that way. My friend who is collared likes to feel that they are controlled. RLV helps to show that for her.
[08:05] Zealot Benmergui: though Sean, some people SEE a collar as a statement of submission, meaning they must like it when you IM them with "Give me a blowjob!"
[08:06] ***MS***: Whether it be blocking her ims, not letting her TP or what have you. It's a thrilling thing for her.
[08:06] Zealot Benmergui: nods...very true Miss***MS***...RLV stands for Restrained Life Viewer...and it is usually not about a collar
[08:06] Zealot Benmergui: but a Mars ring
[08:06] ***vP***: its up to her i guess...
[08:06] ***DM***: true ***MS***, and thats different..im not saying for everyone..im saying for some...like me...
[08:06] Zealot Benmergui: and yes, some women find that level of filtering very comforting
[08:06] ***pQ***: i like the forcesit and forcestrip features of it, because then i don't know what is coming, i can be pushed against the wall without ((get on the pink ball)) or stripped unexpectedly
[08:07] ***CF***: But notice... that's a submissive's preference, she likes to be controlled in such a way. To have that thrust on you when it's not your cup of tea would be... stressful.
[08:07] Zealot Benmergui: remember, to a great degree all of D/s is about gaining more control over your life...as odd as that sounds
[08:07] Zealot Benmergui: a normal person can;t control who tells them what to do, life does that...
[08:07] Zealot Benmergui: a sub can GIVE that ability to one person
[08:07] Zealot Benmergui: or several people...but they are not just a pawn of fate
[08:08] Zealot Benmergui: they are CHOOSING who they submit to
[08:08] ***DM*** smiles
[08:08] ***vP***: nods
[08:08] Zealot Benmergui: since face it, in life, we all submit to someone
[08:08] ***CF*** nods
[08:08] Zealot Benmergui: all that matters is who is the fucker and who is the fuckee
[08:08] ***DM***: i submit to SL and the lindens all the time lol
[08:08] ***vP***: omg Di lol
[08:08] Zealot Benmergui: don;t we all
[08:08] ***CF*** chuckles
[08:09] Zealot Benmergui: and they have yet to even tell me they love me
[08:09] ***DM***: mean arent they? lol
[08:09] Zealot Benmergui wipes a little Linden cum off his chin
[08:09] ***DM***: lmao
[08:09] ***vP***: lol
[08:09] ***pQ***: waits for the lightning bolt
[08:09] ***CF***: Aww, rolling restarts in the middle of my 1500 prim build... Give it to me, big daddy linden. :)
[08:10] ***vP***: 1500 prim?
[08:10] ***CF*** chuckles
[08:10] ***vP***: Sir ***CF*** i do accept:P
[08:10] ***CF***: At one point, yes. ;)
[08:10] Zealot Benmergui: It is essential to remember that each person's collar means something to them, something unique..and their lack of one may ALSO mean something...or it just may mean they can;t edit the fucker
[08:10] ***SW*** laughs
[08:10] ***DM***: OMG lmao
[08:10] ***DM***: yea taht it..i cant edit the fucker...yea yea thats the ticket
[08:11] ***SS***: mhmm
[08:11] ***DM*** winks at ***SS***
[08:11] ***vP***: omg its 6 o clock...
[08:11] Zealot Benmergui: My Master owns it, y'know, and he is like, gone fishing in Nebraska, so like, I can;t edit it....but yeah, I'm owned and shit...wanna fuck?"
[08:12] ***DM***: o.O
[08:12] ***vP***: i m sorry i have to go....
[08:12] ***DM***: i guess if your unrestricted
[08:12] ***SS***: lol
[08:12] ***DM***: bye vita
[08:12] Zealot Benmergui: be well ***vP***dear
[08:12] ***CF*** wipes a tear at the touching display of devotion
[08:12] ***SS***: See ya Vita
[08:12] ***CF***: Take care, Vita. :)
[08:12] ***SW***: Goodbye vita
[08:12] ***vP***: thank you all for the lovely moments i wish i could stay more
[08:12] ***SS***: The devotion goes both ways
[08:12] Zealot Benmergui: Exclusivity is also a touchy point...I have never had a woman collared to me who was exclusive
[08:12] ***CF***: Does indeed
[08:13] ***SS***: it should never bne one sided
[08:13] ***SS***: be*
[08:13] Zealot Benmergui: to me it is silly to be so in SL...it is a world designed for exploration and learning about yourself..and I am going to tie the poor woman to my hip?
[08:13] ***DM***: i personally wouldnt want to be unrestricted in that sense
[08:13] ***SS***: that destroys it
[08:13] ***SS***: unrestricted doesn't mean you have to accept everyones offer
[08:13] ***CF*** nods
[08:13] ***DM***: what i give to HIm is to Him only though
[08:13] ***AD***: eh .. anything is gonna happen here ?
[08:14] Zealot Benmergui: well remember, when most Doms say Exclusive relationship...they mean she can fuck only him, and he can fuck who he likes, he is after all, the master
[08:14] ***SS***: yes!
[08:14] ***SS***: Exactly
[08:14] ***DM***: yea thats another thing lol
[08:14] ***CF***: I don't restrict my girls, but I am so picky, I end up effectively restricting myself.
[08:14] ***SS***: lol
[08:14] ***SS***: as it should be ***CF***, just cause it is there
[08:14] ***DM*** sighs...oh well..i will remain single and thats that! lol
[08:14] ***SS***: doesn't mean you have to fuck it
[08:14] ***SS***: excuse the language
[08:14] Zealot Benmergui: not a bad thing to be, Not Miss ***DM***
[08:14] ***CF*** grins
[08:15] ***DM***: nope..its actually fun Sir!
[08:15] ***SW*** slips ***DM***my phone number...
[08:15] ***DM*** laughs
[08:15] Zealot Benmergui looks at ***SS***, blinks..andputs the raggedy Ann doll down
[08:15] ***vP***: smacks him
[08:15] ***CF***: lmao
[08:15] ***SS***: a doll?
[08:15] ***SS***: I dun want a doll
[08:15] ***SS*** winks licking her lips
[08:15] ***pQ***: spent a year and a half in a restricted collar... a year and a half of stress and suspicion, more damage than good to the relationship
[08:15] ***vP***: waves bye bye and blows kisses to all
[08:15] Zealot Benmergui kicks the somewhat cum stained ragdoll under the bleachers...
[08:16] Zealot Benmergui: doll, what doll?
[08:16] ***XF***: HKW SSWW&U vita
[08:16] ***DM***: O.O
[08:16] ***CF***: Restricted should be a two way street... and if there is no trust in the relationship, it's going to be emotionally abusive anyway.
[08:16] ***DM***: i agree Sir ***CF***
[08:16] Zealot Benmergui: nods to Miss ***pQ***....I find that usually rigid monogomy in Sl just leads to cheating, lying, and alting...by all sides
[08:16] Zealot Benmergui: collar or no collar
[08:16] ***RM***: ***pQ***...that sounds more like jealousy...how can a Master be jealous? cuz jealousy is nothing but insecurity
[08:16] ***SS***: yes, exactly ***CF***
[08:17] ***CF***: Again... "restricted" means a different thing in Gor... but when you go to Gor, you know you're in for a different world.
[08:17] Zealot Benmergui: nods..GOR is something else completely
[08:17] ***pQ***: it was... stressful, at the very least. but yes, He was very jealous
[08:17] ***SS***: there is no restriction in Gor
[08:17] ***SS***: not in the books I have read
[08:17] Zealot Benmergui: remember, trying to directly equate Gor and D/s is like trying to compare 14th century France and D& D
[08:17] ***DM***: its not impossible to find the monogamus relationhsip..some Masters i think want that *shrugs
[08:17] Zealot Benmergui: sort of similar...but not really
[08:18] ***CF*** chuckles
[08:18] ***XF***: then the Master isnt wanting to be aMaster
[08:18] ***DM***: what?
[08:18] Zealot Benmergui: Some do...but it is few and far between...and remember, look up at the club above us
[08:18] ***DM***: yes i know Sir Zealot
[08:18] Zealot Benmergui: that is House of V, likely the most successful BDSM club in SL currently, and has been for a couple years
[08:19] ***SS***: it is
[08:19] ***SS***: and with good reason
[08:19] Zealot Benmergui: it is filled with subs..whose main sport is taking the men publically claimed by OTHER subs
[08:19] ***DM*** scrunches he rnose
[08:19] Zealot Benmergui: it is the same throughout BDSM online
[08:19] Zealot Benmergui: because BDSM online is a SOCIAL creation
[08:19] Zealot Benmergui: BDSM in rl is far more about couples
[08:19] Zealot Benmergui: here, it is the club scene almost completely
[08:20] ***DM***: hmmm
[08:20] Zealot Benmergui: so there is massive poaching, and constant, massive temptation
[08:20] ***RM***: and that's not necessarily a good thing, especially for ppl who are just learning
[08:20] ***SS***: I am tempted every single day...
[08:20] Zealot Benmergui: I get 10 IMs a day from various clubs I wander through from women
[08:20] ***SW***: Are you saying then there's almost an exhibitionist aspect to clooaring - "look at this little hottie, and she's all mine not yours"?
[08:20] Zealot Benmergui: just checking to see if I am interested
[08:21] ***DM***: well if you ask me...and i know no one did, but not as a sub but as a woman alone they shouldnt be that way
[08:21] Zealot Benmergui: Absolutely
[08:21] ***SW***: *collaring* - apologies for the typo
[08:21] ***DM***: its a relfection of your charector
[08:21] ***DM***: grr i cant spell today
[08:21] Zealot Benmergui: true...but it is also assumed to be the way the social enviornment works
[08:22] Zealot Benmergui: on Facebook you freind a stranger to get to know them...here, you suck their cock...
[08:22] ***SS***: lol
[08:22] ***DM***: its like rl married men..why do women go after em? its sad
[08:22] ***SW***: I'd rather just chat
[08:22] ***DM***: LOL
[08:22] Zealot Benmergui shrugs...C'est la guerre
[08:22] ***SS***: To each thier own
[08:22] ***SS***: ya wanna suck cock, so be it
[08:22] ***DM***: lol
[08:22] ***DM***: i wanna suck cock...but not one that is taken lmaoj
[08:22] ***SS***: ya wanna take 50 collars in three months, so be it
[08:22] Zealot Benmergui: Collars are one element of the social scene, as they are one element of a D/s relationship
[08:23] ***SS***: it is all your choice
[08:23] Zealot Benmergui: exactly...there is that word again..CHOICE
[08:23] Zealot Benmergui: I can't stress that enough, every lecture, every topic..D/s is about CHOICE and CONSENT
[08:24] Zealot Benmergui: a colar is a CHOICE
[08:24] Zealot Benmergui: a lack of one is also a CHOICE
[08:24] ***SS***: I choose to enjoy, myself, others may choose something else
[08:24] Zealot Benmergui: and you consent to what it means
[08:24] Zealot Benmergui: it can;tbe imposed or forced on you...
[08:24] ***DM***: i choose lack of one for now! lol
[08:24] Zealot Benmergui: and yes, people say WELL WHAT ABOUT GOR, YOU QUEER IN A PURPLE SUIT
[08:24] ***CF***: It's important to understand what the expectations are before giving or taking a collar... then it's informed choice, rather than blind choice.
[08:25] Zealot Benmergui: in Gor it is not imposed..you CONSENT to the RP when you go to the Sim
[08:25] Zealot Benmergui: there are billiosn of signs and notecards
[08:25] Zealot Benmergui: it is still CONSENSUAL
[08:25] ***RM***: well, the biggest problem i see is not knowing the difference between D/s and rp
[08:25] Zealot Benmergui: which is always the problem
[08:25] ***SS***: in this place, Gor has lost it' beauty
[08:25] ***DM*** nods
[08:25] ***SS***: completely
[08:25] Zealot Benmergui: she is seeking love..he is seeking something to do while WoW is down
[08:25] ***DM***: lol
[08:25] ***pQ***: i never honor forced collars ooc, unless the forced aspect is previously agreed on for rp
[08:26] ***SS***: yes!
[08:26] ***RM***: lmao exactly!!
[08:26] ***CF*** chuckles
[08:26] ***SS***: don't even get me started on "forced collars"
[08:26] Zealot Benmergui: which is why I said the collar has to mean the same thing to each of you
[08:26] ***CF*** chuckles
[08:26] ***DM***: thats a new subject to me completely!
[08:27] Zealot Benmergui: forced collars are an RP convention....
[08:27] ***DM***: oh..no wonder ok
[08:27] ***SS***: it is BS
[08:27] ***SS***: in any sense of it
[08:27] Zealot Benmergui: but they aren;t forced..it's like puttingyour name in a sweepstakes...you want to be chosen, but don;t know if you will or no
[08:27] ***CF***: Well, again, if you're submissive and standing in a sim where forced collars are allowed... you need to understand that you're prey.
[08:27] ***DM***: hmmm
[08:27] ***SS***: if it is stated, so be it
[08:27] ***SS***: rules are rules
[08:27] Zealot Benmergui: people will TREAT them as real...because most people, are sadly, idiots
[08:27] ***CF*** nods
[08:28] ***CF***: lmao
[08:28] Zealot Benmergui: most decent Gor sims will state that the Collar does not apply out of the Sim
[08:28] ***DM***: i wonder why im scared to venture away from HOV lol
[08:28] ***SS***: yeah right lmao
[08:28] ***XF***: i am an idiot
[08:28] ***XF***: yep
[08:28] ***CF***: Right... It should be real for no more than your current logged on session.
[08:28] ***SS***: exactly
[08:28] Zealot Benmergui: I mean, how can the collar be a symbol of an intelligent lifestyle choice when it is understood if the Master is silent for 20 minutes, the colalr is gone and you have "escaped"
[08:29] ***DM***: dang
[08:29] Zealot Benmergui: how many marriages would survive "If your husband is silent for 20 minutes, you are divorced"
[08:29] ***pQ***: most people i know in Gor have a 3 day cap/force collar limit
[08:29] ***XF***: thats why i aint married .. sheesh .. thanks
[08:29] ***CF*** chuckles... A poaching restriction?
[08:29] ***SW***: PLaying Devil's advocate, how many wives CAN stay silent for 20 minutes... *laughing*
[08:29] Zealot Benmergui: Sean, you are a courageous man
[08:30] Zealot Benmergui: Good bye
[08:30] ***SW***: I'll get my coat
[08:30] ***MS*** snickers.
[08:30] ***CF*** chuckles
[08:30] Zealot Benmergui: run while you can
[08:30] ***CF***: Leave the coat, the claws are already out
[08:30] ***XF***: hey is that why i aint married..
[08:30] ***XF***: lmao
[08:30] ***CF***: Save yourself
[08:30] ***CF***: ;)
[08:30] Zealot Benmergui: Gorean forced collars are not relationship collars, but rp props...
[08:30] ***MS*** didn't know she had her claws out. Opps.
[08:31] ***SS***: usualy
[08:31] Zealot Benmergui: however, I have known some that BECAME relationships
[08:31] ***SS***: usually*
[08:31] Zealot Benmergui: and again, each one is different
[08:31] ***pQ***: yes, usually. some expect it to be honored the same as a willing collar.
[08:31] ***DM***: kind of like a claim here then
[08:31] Zealot Benmergui: some women go to RP sims like that to have the choice totally removed as to WHO collars them
[08:31] Zealot Benmergui: they just want someone to claim them...
[08:31] ***CF***: Right, sometimes the prop becomes real, and that's an individual case basis. Trouble comes when people don't know the difference between the prop and the real thing.
[08:32] ***SS***: bottom line is, you are in control... until you release that control
[08:32] Zealot Benmergui: exactly
[08:32] ***DM***: hit the x button?
[08:32] Zealot Benmergui: Submission is CONSENSUAL
[08:32] Zealot Benmergui: so is accepting a collar
[08:32] ***CT*** sits listerning wondering what the topic was.
[08:32] Zealot Benmergui: never forget the best safe word is always "Get away you fucking freak MUTE EXIT
[08:33] ***DM***: lmao
[08:33] ***SS***: yeah
[08:33] ***RM***: lmao Sir
[08:33] ***SS***: well there are others too
[08:33] ***DM***: dont cry and ask him why he thinks he deserves repsect? lol
[08:33] Zealot Benmergui: MY BOYFRIEND IS A LAWYER is good
[08:33] ***SS***: but always remember that you can say NO
[08:34] Zealot Benmergui: the best safe word, truly, is discussing what you like and dislike, want and don;t want before things go physical at all
[08:34] Zealot Benmergui: but that is often not possible for most on SL
[08:35] Zealot Benmergui: and that is also the best way to accept a collar...after much discussion of what it means and doesn;t mean
[08:35] ***pQ***: people lie so much here... lie like a bad toupe. lots of time is key, time will reveal lies
[08:35] ***CT***: To many take the collar to soon, before realising what it entails, and as such the term velcro collar was born- More so in gor- and please excuse me if i took it off topic.. missed most of the lesson
[08:36] Zealot Benmergui: no, thatis quite fair
[08:36] ***CF***: You're right on topic. ;)
[08:36] Zealot Benmergui: also, people tend to view Collars like sex in the 1950s
[08:36] ***CT*** has experience in both Furry ( as you can see ) and Gor - but i find most do not understand he true meaning of submission
[08:36] Zealot Benmergui: OH gee, I let him have his way with me, now we will marry and be together forever
[08:37] Zealot Benmergui: collars are learning experiences...you will likely wear several in your time online as a sub
[08:38] Zealot Benmergui: part of it is, Miss Trieliss, that each persons submission is their own, and may be true to them
[08:39] Zealot Benmergui: the trick is making sure that the submissive and the Dominant AGREE on what it means, as well as what the collar means
[08:39] Zealot Benmergui: my normal view of submission is a bit less, well..bovine, then yours.,..doesn't make yours any less valid
[08:39] ***CT***: it is also a learning path, for there is no right or wrong to submission and domination, one Dom/me expects one thing.. another somehing else.
[08:39] ***pQ***: so not just consent is important, but *informed* consent, on both parts
[08:40] Zealot Benmergui: absolutely
[08:40] Zealot Benmergui: consent in this context implies informed, intelligent consideration
[08:40] Zealot Benmergui: not SO HORNY FINE FUCK ME AND I WILL WEAR THE STUPID COLLAR THING
[08:40] ***RM***: lmao
[08:41] ***CT*** chuckles.
[08:41] ***SW*** laughs
[08:41] ***pQ***: chuckles
[08:42] ***MS*** grins.
[08:42] Zealot Benmergui: though a lot of women have logged in to find that when they tossed their panties over the Jim Beam bottle last night, they also somehow ended up collared
[08:42] ***CT***: the collar itself is not the submission, for it as useful as a top I wear, .. as submission is form the heart, a sub doesnt have to wear a collar to know whom s/he is. Nor does s/he has to be fucked ( hough that is very nice indeed sometimes )
[08:42] Zealot Benmergui: funny how that works
[08:42] Zealot Benmergui: Absolutely Miss Trieliss, a collar is a symbol, which may or may not be needed, and means something different to each person
[08:43] Zealot Benmergui: let me get a little buiness out of the way quickly...
[08:43] ***CT***: same can be said for guys too Sir can it not? after all "some" guys can be lead by their...................... XD
[08:43] ***RM***: definitely ***CT***
[08:43] Zealot Benmergui: Is there any other way a man is led, Miss Trieliss?
[08:43] ***CT***: Yes.
[08:43] Zealot Benmergui: it sticks a few inches ahead of us for a REASON
[08:43] ***CT***: again its not about the physican sex that can bring either D or s
[08:44] Zealot Benmergui: smiles...quite correct.
[08:44] ***pQ***: mmhmm, love it when a guy offers me a collar 5 minutes after meeting me, and i can tell it's just because he likes my av and wants to fuck me whenever he chooses... NOT
[08:44] ***CT*** grins wickedly " but its a darn good way to lead.. hmm prince alberts "
[08:44] Zealot Benmergui: I hate to break it to you dear, but whenever he chooses will likely mean once, then on to the next
[08:44] ***RM***: yeah what is it about ppl being really turned on by cartoons?
[08:44] ***pQ***: laughs, You don't meet the Men i do, Sir
[08:45] ***SS***: For me
[08:45] ***pQ***: i wish they would move on that easily
[08:45] Zealot Benmergui: then my congratulations to your skill
[08:45] ***SS***: it's the person, behind the computer, the words, the commonalities.. the attraction
[08:45] ***SS***: and that takes time
[08:45] ***RM*** nods at ***SS***
[08:45] Zealot Benmergui: there is a reason why they say the largest sex organ is the brain
[08:46] ***pQ***: any girl who has a decent av and can string a sentence together well, isn't going to get rid of most of them that easily.. no skill needed, i'm not that conceited
[08:46] ***SS***: the initial attraction is there, we are a very visual culture
[08:46] Zealot Benmergui: ok business....please remember to tip your humble lecturer by paying me directly if you so choose..Heroin just keeps getting more expensive
[08:46] ***SS***: yes it is
[08:46] ***CT***: to many though are inpatient, they orefer the click click loving, rather hen the words, the description the emotions and the intesity that good writing can do
[08:46] Zealot Benmergui: remember next week, same day and time here at House of V
[08:47] Zealot Benmergui: and Thursdays, 9 AM SLT at Velvet Thorn, a femdom sim