BDSM Online vs. RL - 6/24/09

[12:05] Dominic Rahja: BDSM as it is online (SL) versus RL
[12:09] Dominic Rahja: as for an introduction I copied some text from a blog
[12:09] Dominic Rahja: dont worry about copy rights, they dont know Me rl
[12:09] Dominic Rahja: anyway
[12:09] Pirate Russell: Just cite the site, and you're clear! he he
[12:09] Dominic Rahja: what this pesron wrote was quite catching
[12:09] Dominic Rahja: its about bdsm online
[12:10] Dominic Rahja: here it cums
[12:10] Dominic Rahja: BDSM in a World without Pain
[12:10] Dominic Rahja: It’s hard to feel pain in virtual worlds; in fact, it’s downright impossible.
[12:10] Dominic Rahja: Simulate any other facet of life – love, childbirth, the perfect pair of shoes – but experiencing physical pain is out of bounds.
[12:10] Dominic Rahja: . No amount of roleplaying can recreate it. Real-life pain requires a real-life body, one thing virtual worlds just can’t provide.
[12:11] Dominic Rahja: (( note: this is not written by Me))
[12:11] Dominic Rahja: Not that anyone seems to be complaining.
[12:11] ***BM***: @
[12:11] Dominic Rahja: Virtual life has its advantages, and one of them is freedom from real-life restrictions like pain.
[12:11] Dominic Rahja: yes ***BM***?
[12:12] ***BM***: this may sound funny, but I know of subs who "mirror" in rl what is happening in sl, ie, hit themselves with a hairbrush or paddle for the pain factor
[12:12] Dominic Rahja: nods
[12:13] Dominic Rahja: we come back later to that
[12:13] ***BM***: I guess, I was disagreeing in a way. sorry
[12:13] Dominic Rahja: adding rl activities to online experiences is a topic
[12:13] Dominic Rahja: we'll talk about that after this intro
[12:13] ***BM***: I'll go back to my usual quiet self
[12:13] Dominic Rahja: ok, I go on
[12:14] Dominic Rahja: This freedom makes online environments ideal spaces for experimentation, both personal and sexual.
[12:14] Dominic Rahja: Needless to say, virtual worlds are rife with exploration of all kinds, much of it kinky.
[12:14] Dominic Rahja: But in worlds without pain, what happens to those very masters of kink, the men and women who know pain best, virtual sadomasochists?
[12:14] Dominic Rahja: Strangely enough, nothing.
[12:15] Dominic Rahja: There are plenty of online BDSM communities practicing today.
[12:15] Dominic Rahja: Just club-hop through Second Life and you’ll see that soon enough.
[12:15] Dominic Rahja: Sensual contraptions straight from a torture chamber line the walls of semi-private rooms.
[12:15] Dominic Rahja: Xcite! has begun selling floggers with realistically drooping tails.
[12:15] Dominic Rahja: . Half the women on the street are calling out with their enormous, kinky boots, “Come on, hurt me!”
[12:16] Dominic Rahja: laffs
[12:16] Dominic Rahja: But you can’t. In Second Life, I can’t even hurt myself.
[12:16] Dominic Rahja: On a slow Monday evening, I strap my avatar into a S/M device that sends an enormous spike through my vagina, over and over and over. Imagination and projection are important here,
[12:16] Dominic Rahja: ((not My vagina btw))
[12:16] Dominic Rahja: certainly, but even in the mood, I can’t feel a thing.
[12:17] Dominic Rahja: My avatar looks bored. The BDSM I’m used to, real-life BDSM, stings, burns, bleeds. This doesn’t even tickle.
[12:17] Dominic Rahja: If S/M depends on physical sensation, then what’s this?
[12:17] Dominic Rahja: Maybe that’s the problem: we expect to feel.
[12:17] Dominic Rahja: We wonder, how can something so often dependent on physical action transfer to an electronic environment?
[12:18] Dominic Rahja: But it doesn’t just transfer, it transforms.
[12:18] Dominic Rahja: BDSM in cyberspace becomes what it’s been at its root all along, a matter not of pain, but of control.
[12:18] Dominic Rahja: ok
[12:19] Dominic Rahja: this is what I believe is a rl lifes styler experiences in sl
[12:19] Dominic Rahja: she wants to feel
[12:19] Dominic Rahja: as like what ***BM*** added, of course there are ways to add some rl to it
[12:19] Dominic Rahja: but does that do the trick?
[12:20] Dominic Rahja: surely, sl provides us a way to explore
[12:20] ***BM*** smiles and waves to ***BH***
[12:20] Dominic Rahja: but its also a fact that it nearly comes close to rl
[12:20] Dominic Rahja: or am I wrong?
[12:20] Dominic Rahja: like in the last sentence of this intro:
[12:20] Dominic Rahja: is it the control that does the trick maybe
[12:21] Dominic Rahja: hello ***BH***
[12:21] Dominic Rahja: welcome to the college
[12:21] ***BH***: hello E/everyone
[12:21] Dominic Rahja: its a statistic fact that lots of people who never heard of something like bdsm, get in contact with it through sl
[12:22] Dominic Rahja: and many interested in it, look upon it as a cool kinky play
[12:22] Dominic Rahja: which it is of course and nothing wrong with that view
[12:22] Dominic Rahja: but for those who really wanna experience bdsm lifely
[12:23] Dominic Rahja: by touch
[12:23] Dominic Rahja: then sl is just a little too short
[12:23] Dominic Rahja: another problem that might occur..
[12:23] Dominic Rahja: is in what way is bdsm as it is offered in sl realistic
[12:24] Dominic Rahja: I mean:
[12:24] Dominic Rahja: if you do some search
[12:24] Dominic Rahja: you can type all kinds of kinky words
[12:24] Dominic Rahja: and it will give you an option
[12:24] Dominic Rahja: of places you can go to, to experience that
[12:25] ***TY***: @
[12:25] Dominic Rahja: (( if you got adult switched on hehe))
[12:25] Dominic Rahja: yes ***TY***
[12:25] ***TY***: I can only speak for myself... but I came to SL through a friend... who knew I was hurting due to the death of my rl Master... seeking the control and routine of bdsm while I worked through my grief and depression in rl... and that is what I found.... the control... the ability to have someone assist me with focusing on day to day activities
[12:25] Dominic Rahja: nods
[12:25] ***TY***: so from that standpoint
[12:25] Dominic Rahja: but in this manner you came to sl with knowing what you wanted
[12:26] Dominic Rahja: greets ***BW***
[12:26] ***TY***: it was for the most part a close proximity... but you are correct ... the physical component
[12:26] ***TY***: was lacking when comfort was needed and offered
[12:26] ***BW***: greetings Master Dominic
[12:26] Dominic Rahja: when i first joined sl, it was because people told me that I would find a good bdsm community here
[12:26] Dominic Rahja: which was true
[12:26] ***NZ***: waves to ***BW***
[12:27] Dominic Rahja: but 9 out of 10 got their first encounter with this life style here in sl
[12:27] Dominic Rahja: some turn their backs
[12:27] Dominic Rahja: and some wanna know more about it
[12:27] Dominic Rahja: for that last group we got the college here
[12:27] Dominic Rahja: and not to forget the school
[12:28] Dominic Rahja: but as I said:
[12:28] Dominic Rahja: we here talk about realism
[12:28] Dominic Rahja: but how realistic is sl
[12:28] Dominic Rahja: suppose
[12:28] Dominic Rahja: I hear about snuff
[12:29] Dominic Rahja: as something cruel
[12:29] Dominic Rahja: killing stuff
[12:29] Dominic Rahja: and just for the fun of it, I type it in
[12:29] Dominic Rahja: bingo
[12:29] Dominic Rahja: found places for it
[12:30] Dominic Rahja: but in the description of the place
[12:30] Dominic Rahja: is not only snuff mentioned
[12:30] Dominic Rahja: but also bdsm
[12:30] Dominic Rahja: is snuff the bdsm related?
[12:30] Dominic Rahja: probably because both words are put next to eachother
[12:31] Dominic Rahja: now you can say: hey, but sl snuff that aint rl
[12:31] Dominic Rahja: true
[12:31] Dominic Rahja: gladly u cant kill anybody
[12:31] Dominic Rahja: maybe shoot someone to the next sim lol
[12:32] Dominic Rahja: but he will survive that
[12:32] Dominic Rahja: but the point isd
[12:32] Dominic Rahja: that here on sl many places try to offer you the extremest kinky stuff ever
[12:32] Dominic Rahja: why is that?
[12:32] Dominic Rahja: traffic issue?
[12:33] Dominic Rahja: just fun?
[12:33] Dominic Rahja: sure
[12:33] Dominic Rahja: but is that bdsm?
[12:33] Dominic Rahja: dont think you'd like a Dom into snuff do you?
[12:33] Dominic Rahja: sl wise it doesnt matter maybe
[12:33] Dominic Rahja: but rl? hm
[12:34] Dominic Rahja: lately there has been some media hassle again about something linky in sl
[12:34] Dominic Rahja: about rape
[12:34] Dominic Rahja: suppose
[12:34] Dominic Rahja: you walk the streets of some urban place in sl
[12:34] Dominic Rahja: the place advertises: rape
[12:35] Dominic Rahja: and so it happens
[12:35] Dominic Rahja: at the corner of some dark alley, a guy humps ya
[12:35] Dominic Rahja: rp you'd say
[12:35] Dominic Rahja: yeah it is
[12:35] Dominic Rahja: but it can also happen you feel a bit scared with it
[12:35] Dominic Rahja: is it consensual?
[12:36] Dominic Rahja: hm
[12:36] Dominic Rahja: not really but
[12:36] Dominic Rahja: you knew what could happen
[12:36] Dominic Rahja: I show you some text about what happened
[12:37] Dominic Rahja: got this from another blog author
[12:37] Dominic Rahja: Just today, I read about Brussels police looking into a complaint of “virtual rape” within the game, Second Life.
[12:37] ***BM***: @
[12:37] Dominic Rahja: ***BM***?
[12:38] ***BM***: ok...it is consensual, sorry, but I can't see how it can be anything but....there are tp's, and in the worst case, how bout a power butten.
[12:38] Dominic Rahja: right
[12:38] ***BM***: a complaint of "virtual rape"..thats insane
[12:38] Dominic Rahja: the question is: can there be such a thing as rape in sl
[12:39] Dominic Rahja: rap roleplay wise is therefor something you agree to
[12:39] ***NZ***: someone could be so shocked its happening they dont think to TP out
[12:39] ***TY***: @
[12:39] Dominic Rahja: possibly baby
[12:39] Dominic Rahja: ***TY***?
[12:39] ***BM***: I don't think so...sorry...still have a power button, or walk away
[12:39] ***NZ***: and new to sl
[12:39] ***TY***: I would think if you are in a sim location that advertises rape
[12:39] ***TY***: you have given implied consent
[12:40] ***NZ***: happened to me when i wa new lolol
[12:40] ***TY***: now... if you are somewhere else....
[12:40] ***TY***: that's a different story
[12:40] Dominic Rahja: right
[12:40] Dominic Rahja: and thats what ***NZ*** means
[12:40] Dominic Rahja: I show you the rest of this blog text
[12:41] Dominic Rahja: it is a rl serious matter btw
[12:41] Dominic Rahja: Just today, I read about Brussels police looking into a complaint of “virtual rape” within the game, Second Life.
[12:41] Dominic Rahja: Wired even had a nice descriptive analysis on how virtual rape is traumatizing (and no doubt it is) when it is non-consensual.
[12:41] Dominic Rahja: But something just didn’t jive with all of this. Here’s my thoughts.
[12:41] ***BM***: @
[12:41] Dominic Rahja: First off, the younger players are filtered off on the Teen Grid while everyone else is on the main Grid.
[12:42] Dominic Rahja: after this article , you get your turn ***BM***
[12:42] Dominic Rahja: If a teen happens to lie and get a hold of adult qualifications or has an adult create the account,
[12:42] ***BM*** shakes her head...nvr mind
[12:42] Dominic Rahja: then they bypass the security measures in keeping them safe from any sexual activities that could happen on the main Grid.
[12:42] Dominic Rahja: Second, there is no possible way to force another avatar to do your bidding without that other player allowing control.
[12:43] Dominic Rahja: At least not to my limited knowledge.
[12:43] Dominic Rahja: I suppose you could be barraged by words over chat or IM, but there is this fancy schmancy thing called mute that can basically silence anyone from saying anything to you.
[12:43] Dominic Rahja: Believe me, I’ve done it many times when someone goes crazy in chat.
[12:43] Pirate Russell: @
[12:43] Dominic Rahja: I’m sure many people have hit the mute key on me too since I joke around all the time.
[12:43] Dominic Rahja: Holds ***BM*** and Pirate
[12:44] Dominic Rahja: You could potentially have stalkers (both in-game and real life), but as with any social environment, if you give too much information away, that’s just a potential risk.
[12:44] Dominic Rahja: So given the above, I’m not even sure how this would work.
[12:44] Dominic Rahja: Don’t get me wrong, virtual games come with some very real problems that could arise just as if you wandered around chat rooms except with these, it’s with avatars.
[12:44] Dominic Rahja: And I’m not belittling virtual rape, since that’s very wrong and no one should ever go through such things online.
[12:45] Dominic Rahja: I’m just trying to figure out the logistics behind how it can even possibly be done in Second Life due to the limitations of the game.
[12:45] Dominic Rahja: It almost doesn’t seem to be possible, at least in Second Life.
[12:45] Dominic Rahja: allright
[12:45] Dominic Rahja: ***BM***?
[12:46] ***BM***: please go on to pirate, I'm about to have a fit that someone would be able to waste our tax dollars on a courte case like this
[12:46] ***BM***: the girl had to choose right click sit
[12:46] ***BM***: and give permission to operate the ave
[12:46] Dominic Rahja: nods
[12:46] ***BM***: besides
[12:46] ***BH***: not really, with auto accepting relays and no control over them the only real option is to logout
[12:47] Dominic Rahja: surely media always try to create a hype over such things
[12:47] ***BM***: these sims advertise "rape role play" its not a suprise
[12:47] Dominic Rahja: no
[12:47] Dominic Rahja: you'll find it elsewhere on the net too
[12:47] Dominic Rahja: like today I found a forced fuck website lol
[12:48] Dominic Rahja: if I was shocked about it then I would hit the *leave* button wouldnt I
[12:48] Dominic Rahja: but I didnt hehe, but Im a perv
[12:48] ***TY***: lol
[12:48] Dominic Rahja: Pirate
[12:48] ***TY***: @
[12:48] Nane Pey is Online
[12:49] Dominic Rahja: ***TY*** on hold
[12:58] Dominic Rahja: ok
[12:59] Dominic Rahja: I started with the question: does sl bdsm offer the right bdsm
[12:59] Dominic Rahja: the girl in the introduction told us a definate NO
[13:00] Dominic Rahja: because she believes sl just lacks personal contact
[13:00] Dominic Rahja: which is true
[13:00] Dominic Rahja: on the other hand, there are many ways to add some real life to it
[13:01] Dominic Rahja: like the flogging you mentioned ***BM***
[13:01] Dominic Rahja: another point is..
[13:01] Dominic Rahja: the different aspects of bdsm in sl arent always realistic
[13:01] Dominic Rahja: they are sometimes too extreme
[13:02] Dominic Rahja: and are no part of bdsm in real
[13:02] Dominic Rahja: for instance rape isnt
[13:02] Dominic Rahja: rape as play in safe and consensual maybe
[13:02] Dominic Rahja: but not in a dark alley
[13:02] Dominic Rahja: surely, sl provides us kinky roleplay
[13:03] Dominic Rahja: and theres no harm in exploring it
[13:03] Dominic Rahja: as long you dont start believing you will encounter this all in rl
[13:03] Dominic Rahja: wehich in many cases is even impossible
[13:03] Dominic Rahja: think of dolcett in this way
[13:04] Dominic Rahja: nobody wants to be roast
[13:04] Dominic Rahja: in real
[13:04] Dominic Rahja: okay
[13:04] Dominic Rahja: any more questions, remarks
[13:05] Dominic Rahja: ok
[13:05] ***TY***: ty Sir Dom...
[13:05] Dominic Rahja: then I hereby end our session and I hope it was informative
[13:05] ***TW***: thank you Sir..
[13:05] Dominic Rahja: and sorry for the disruption
[13:05] ***AX***: thank you Sir Dominic
[13:05] Dominic Rahja: safe paths to you all
[13:06] Dominic Rahja: yw :)
[13:07] ***BM***: Thank you, Sir Dominic
[13:07] Dominic Rahja: yw ***BM***
[13:07] ***BM***: I hope I didn't make things difficult for you
[13:07] Dominic Rahja: not at all
[13:07] Dominic Rahja: I glad with your feed back
[13:08] ***BM***: Your classes have been informative thus far.
[13:08] Dominic Rahja: thanks