Perspective and How to get It 2/5/09

[0:40] Zealot Benmergui: Welcome A/all to the House of V’s College of Kink. My name is Zealot Benmergui, Baron BardHaven and I will be your host today. Some of you may know me from lecturing here at House of V and other locations around the grid. Others of you may know me for my upcoming role as Kirk’s Alien Princess Fuckbabe #3 in the “Star Trek” remake.
[0:41] Zealot Benmergui: The topic for today is "Perspective and How to get It”. Please note that for the purpose of clarity, I will tend to use “she” to refer to a submissive and “he” to refer to a Dominant, but either can be of any gender. Your humble lecturer WILL accept tips, but they must be paid to me directly, if you are so inclined, thank you.
[0:41] Zealot Benmergui: Remember we will have time for questions, discussions and group sex following the lecture...and A please keep your hands where we can see them at all times during the lecture
[0:42] ***DT*** chuckles
[0:42] Zealot Benmergui: Online Perspective can be a delicate thing...
[0:42] Zealot Benmergui: We tend to take it as a given, after all, we are all people of the world, are we not...we know our way around, weren;t born yesterday, yadda yadda...
[0:43] Zealot Benmergui: However, it is very easy to lose track of basic perspective online, especially when you are involved with the D/s community
[0:43] ***AK*** waves both hands so they are clearly seen
[0:43] Zealot Benmergui: For example...lets look at the concept of being a Dom on line and the way it can distort your point of view.
[0:43] ***GK*** listens with interest
[0:44] Zealot Benmergui: We all know the marketing spiel about being a Dom in D/s, or at least the way it is seen by many people....domineering, in control, unflappable....
[0:44] Zealot Benmergui: However it is very easy for Doms, and the people and subs that interact with them, to lose the fact that in the end, they are just people....
[0:45] Zealot Benmergui: Often Doms willhave very little sense of humor, and even less rational perspective on who they are and the role they play
[0:45] Zealot Benmergui: Hello Ling darling
[0:45] ***SA***: hay Zburger
[0:45] ***AK***: LING!!!!
[0:45] ***SA***: Ahole!
[0:45] Savahna Indigo smiles and excuses herself
[0:46] ***SA*** waits for seats to rez
[0:46] Zealot Benmergui: There is a legend that says that Julius Caeser had a slave who did nothing but stand at his shoulder and whisper to him "Thou Art Mortal"....that sort of thing would do a lot of Doms on line a lot of good
[0:46] ***PM***: Welcome back Tora!
[0:46] Zealot Benmergui: Especially if the slave were naked
[0:46] Zealot Benmergui: Nice feet Ling
[0:46] ***GK*** laughs at that..and thinks it be true
[0:46] ***SA***: thankies
[0:47] Zealot Benmergui: Doms can often forget that we can make mistakes, we can screw up, we are fallible and whats more, need at times to step back and just laugh at ourselves
[0:48] Zealot Benmergui: Even more then Doms forgetting it, submissives sometimes think that the very title of Master somehow makes a Dom above reproach, or perfect...this almost always spins around and bits said sub on the ass, and not in a good way
[0:48] ***GK*** flinches at the thought
[0:48] Zealot Benmergui: How many of us have known subs, or been subs, who would go on and on about how wonderful and stainless their Master is, until you get the IM taht says DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT COCKSUCKING BASTARD DID TO ME?????
[0:49] ***AK***: I turn around and say "I told you so "
[0:49] ***SJ***: lol
[0:49] Zealot Benmergui: A little perspective on the parts of both Dom and sub, and some preventative maintenance, could have spared both a lot of pain and heartbreak....
[0:50] Zealot Benmergui: An incident occured here at House of V recently in which a Dom took vocal excpetion to the fact I referred to dominants as "Silly Bastards"
[0:51] Zealot Benmergui: This kind of inability to self critique or even entertain a sense of humor about ourselves and what we do here shows that Perspective is so far gone as to be a legend
[0:51] ***AK***: WHAT!!!! You called us Bastards. You ass.
[0:51] Zealot Benmergui: No A, I called YOU a pipassed throatmassaging pedaphile...that's different
[0:52] ***GK***: ahhhh..is a DOM a DOMESTIC?
[0:52] ***AK***: Thats more like it. Now kneel biatch.
[0:52] Zealot Benmergui: *laughs...some likely should be, Glenn
[0:53] Zealot Benmergui: Therefore, I have put together a simple list of facts that Doms and subs alike should repeat to themselves now and again, a sort of long winded version of "Thou Art Mortal"
[0:53] Zealot Benmergui: 1) I have a life outside of Sl, and so does my Dom/sub
[0:53] ***SA***: theres life outside SL
[0:53] ***SA***: well i never!!1
[0:54] Zealot Benmergui: It is so easy to lose yourself in the world here, so easy to forget that despite things you aren;t and shouldn;t be the entire world of the person you have collared, or who has collared you
[0:54] ***GK***: I am Shatterefd!!
[0:54] ***GK***: hahahaha
[0:54] Zealot Benmergui: To assume that you are is to make yourself very very annoying as well as very very vulnerable
[0:55] ***AK***: No Im Spartacus
[0:55] Zealot Benmergui: That is not to say that those people are relationships are not important...but they are part of an entire structure, not the entire structure
[0:55] Zealot Benmergui: To view them as otherwise, is setting yourself up for a fall.
[0:56] Zealot Benmergui: 2) I make mistakes, so does He/she
[0:56] ***AK***: You hear that kellee your a HeShe, i knew it
[0:56] Zealot Benmergui: Sometimes, we all screw up, say the wrong thing, do something dumb, get sidetracked, confused, lost
[0:56] Zealot Benmergui: Most of the time, it is NOT the end of the world.
[0:56] ***KL*** glares at andrea
[0:56] ***SA***: one of you has to have have a cock though andreas
[0:57] ***AK*** grins
[0:57] Zealot Benmergui tosses them a cock...KNock yourself out, this came with the Happy Meal
[0:57] ***HF*** giggles
[0:57] ***SA***: DAMN .. what McDonalds do you go to Z?
[0:57] ***AK***: Have to show and tell what happened last night, lets just say i lost at a game of onaroll and a few things where at stake.
[0:57] Zealot Benmergui: Sure, mistakes can be serious, especially in a D/s relationship they can be very painful, very upsetting...there is a lot of trust in play to betray...
[0:57] ***SA***: like your anal virginity?
[0:58] Zealot Benmergui: Hush A..show us the jpegs later
[0:58] Zealot Benmergui: Sometimes we just need to stop, and remember that a master/slave or Dom/sub relationship is like ANY relationship.
[0:59] Zealot Benmergui: The titles don't give us some kind of special power, some kind of infallibility or invulnerability
[0:59] Zealot Benmergui: we will screw up, we will get hurt sometimes, we will be thoughtless...we will be human. And that is OK. Our Dom or sub has the ame right
[1:00] Zealot Benmergui: Never underestimate the power of a simple apology, or dismiss one out of hand if it is sincere
[1:00] Zealot Benmergui: And no, it is NOT against the nature of being a Dom to say you are sorry
[1:01] Zealot Benmergui: or for that matter to say you are wrong.
[1:01] Zealot Benmergui: We are people before we are Doms, and people are fallible
[1:01] Zealot Benmergui: 3) Don;t expect more from your Dom/sub then you can or will give
[1:02] Zealot Benmergui: In D/s, both Doms and subs are very good at demanding, or expecting things..after all, it is our game we expect to play it by our rules
[1:02] Zealot Benmergui: We can often forget that there are other people involved, who may have their own rules and realities.
[1:03] ***GK*** ponders the truth in that
[1:03] Zealot Benmergui: I have said again and again in these lectures that any D/s relationship has to begin with a serious deiscussion deciding on rules for each, what each one will do in the relationship
[1:03] Zealot Benmergui: I would now expand that, and say that just as important is to make clear the things each party will NOT or CANNOT do. No pie in the sky promises, no rose colored glasses...
[1:04] Zealot Benmergui: Make clear what they can expect from you....
[1:04] Zealot Benmergui: to save on confusion and difficulties later
[1:04] Zealot Benmergui: Lastly...4) In all things, Mercy
[1:05] Zealot Benmergui: D/s can tend to be about absolutes
[1:05] Zealot Benmergui: People aren;t good with absolutes..we just aren;t
[1:05] Zealot Benmergui: all of us are a mix of elements, many facets, many faces
[1:05] ***GK***: i absolutely agree
[1:06] Zealot Benmergui: We need to not use words like ALWAYS, NEVER, we need to take time to remember that the other person has feelings and a viewpoint as well.
[1:07] Zealot Benmergui: So often we find ourselves becoming upset over being upset, that our anger or pain feeds itself, until it seems like it is the most important thing in the world...
[1:07] Zealot Benmergui: It isn't
[1:07] ***GK*** nods
[1:07] Zealot Benmergui: and whatever happened was not the crime of the century, or done out of Evil
[1:08] Zealot Benmergui: We need to take a step back sometimes, and see things from the point of view of our Dom and sub, and think if we would have doine better intheir shoes..and even if we WOULD have, to try and understand their position.
[1:09] Zealot Benmergui: D/s can be a highly rewarding, very powerful form of interation, a style or relationship that can fulfill many needs for us that more mainstream relationship do not...
[1:10] Zealot Benmergui: but when we lose perspective on the fact that we are all just people, no matter the role we take on or the responsibilities we try to live up to, we are doomed to fail....just as would be true in any relationship
[1:10] Zealot Benmergui: We need to laugh at ourselves, not take it all quite so seriously, and remember to enjoy what we have....
[1:11] Zealot Benmergui: THAT I feel is the true meaning of D/s and the formality of a Master/sub relationship...it can force us to remember to enjoy what we have. A lack of perspective can ruin that for all involved.
[1:12] Zealot Benmergui: And that brings us to discussion and group sex....
[1:12] ***HF***: lol
[1:12] ***GK***: and drugs n booze?
[1:12] ***HF***: group sex? ... Here?....Now?
[1:12] Zealot Benmergui: Absolutely, I need the drugs and booze in order to have sex
[1:12] ***tY***: (takes notes)
[1:13] ***AK*** offers out the poppers.
[1:13] Zealot Benmergui: What other areas are there in which we tend to lose perspective in D/s, do you feel?
[1:13] ***GK*** throws a handfull of little blue pills out onto the floor
[1:13] ***HF***: <~~~raises her hand
[1:13] Zealot Benmergui: mmm Skittles
[1:13] Zealot Benmergui: Yes Miss ***HF***
[1:13] Zealot Benmergui: Your name rocks, by the way
[1:14] ***HF***: I think maybe when the sub and Dom become so used to each other
[1:14] ***HF***: they might forget who is Dom and who is sub
[1:14] Zealot Benmergui: That can be a danger, and it is also not always a negative...
[1:14] Zealot Benmergui: But for many couples, yes that could be a problem....roles break down
[1:15] ***GK***: make I make a comment?
[1:15] Zealot Benmergui: Part of Perspective is also remembering your place in a relationship, the role you fill
[1:15] Zealot Benmergui: Of course, feel free
[1:15] ***HF***: it can be good for both sides on occasions as long as it doesn't spoil the whole thing
[1:15] ***GK***: i feel that a DOm remains a Dom for only as long a a sub allows him/her
[1:16] Zealot Benmergui: I absolutely agree with tha
[1:16] Zealot Benmergui: D/s begins and ends on the concept of Consent
[1:16] Zealot Benmergui: Hiya Sean
[1:16] ***SA***: there he is *grins*
[1:16] ***SM*** snorts hello
[1:17] ***AK***: Yo Sean
[1:17] ***SM***: giddday man
[1:17] ***AK***: Sean this is Kellee, Kellee Sean the Faun
[1:17] Zealot Benmergui: Anyone who tells me he can force a woman to submit online is talking shit...
[1:17] ***tY***: I am sorry I missed the beginning of all of this.. I think I would have enjoyed this
[1:17] ***KL***: hi hi
[1:17] ***SM*** scents the ground near Shattered
[1:18] Zealot Benmergui: and if he feels he can force a woman to submit against her will in RL, he is talking 10-25 in Attica
[1:18] ***SS*** giggles
[1:18] ***HF***: <~~hand raised
[1:18] ***GK*** slaps his thigh in agreement
[1:18] ***tY***: I don't think he can force.. but there are various forms of persuasion
[1:18] Zealot Benmergui: a sub must CONSENT to submit to a person, that is also something to remember in Perspective
[1:18] ***GK*** thinks she has a very cute hand too
[1:19] Zealot Benmergui: persuade and force are too very different things..if it weren;t for "persuasion" most men would never get laid at all
[1:19] ***GK***: like a cattle prod, ***tY***?
[1:19] Zealot Benmergui: Yes Miss ***HF***
[1:19] ***HF***: it's my theory ...but I think a Dom/me is a natural way to be ..as is being subbmissive
[1:19] ***tY***: yes, persuasion can be subtle and sneaky or overt
[1:19] Zealot Benmergui: Absolutely...Dominance is part of a person;s nature
[1:19] ***HF***: I dont think you could force either condition
[1:19] ***GK*** grins
[1:19] Zealot Benmergui: We are who we are..and often it is very clear
[1:20] ***tY***: a cattle prod is fine if it is what turns the willing parties on.. not really my thing though
[1:20] ***GK***: and often it is not
[1:20] Zealot Benmergui: Go to a large crowd, like a museum or sporting event, and watch people...you can tell who is Dom and who is sub after a little while by the way they act
[1:20] Zealot Benmergui: and the guys wearing mullets and leather chaps
[1:20] ***SS***: what about the switches?
[1:21] ***GK***: wearing a mullet is a sign of a DOM?
[1:21] ***HF***: well there are boys and girls and then there are the "don't knows"
[1:21] Zealot Benmergui: Switches are tricky, but most wil lean one way or another...totally pure Switches are very very rare
[1:21] ***SS*** nods
[1:22] ***tY***: I think who is Dom and who is sub also depends on who you meet, or who you are with
[1:22] ***HF***: <~~hand up
[1:22] ***GK*** smiles
[1:22] ***tY***: I am submissive to my partner, but to no one else, for example
[1:23] ***GK*** turns to te..like a chain, perhaps..a DOm to one and a sub to another?
[1:23] ***SS*** nods at Te
[1:23] Zealot Benmergui: Yes Miss Freese...feel free to just interject
[1:23] ***SS***: subs can also be ordered to Top under the direction of their Dom, but that's a whole nuther subject
[1:23] ***AK***: Just because someone calls themselvs a sub doesnt mean they are a doormatt for anyone, thats a given.
[1:24] ***tY***: yes sweet
[1:24] ***tY***: right Andreas
[1:24] ***HF***: It might be easier for a Dom/me to play the subbmissive than it is for the sub to play the Dom/me
[1:24] Zealot Benmergui: Most Switches wil be Dom or sub depending on who they are with...it is not like they will suddenly bgin a scene submitting then chain them to a bedframe
[1:24] ***tY***: lol
[1:25] ***AK***: mmmmm bedframe
[1:25] Zealot Benmergui: It is often just as hard for a Dom to submit Miss Freese...they just end up topping from the bottom
[1:25] ***SJ***: doesnt c anything sexy about a hairy ass giggles
[1:25] ***SS*** doesn't think most Doms would even concider it
[1:25] Zealot Benmergui: It is VERY hard for any person to go against their nature
[1:26] ***HF***: in a way a sub is also a D but in such a sublte way as she herself might not even notice
[1:26] ***SS*** agrees
[1:26] ***SS***: with the teacher
[1:26] Zealot Benmergui: That depends on the ass Miss Janick
[1:26] ***SJ***: lol
[1:27] ***HF***: <----likes hairy bums
[1:27] Zealot Benmergui: Exactly Miss freese..I have called a D/s relationship a Moebius Cycle before...it may seem like the Dom is in control, but in reality it is very fluid, and much of the real control rests with the sub
[1:27] ***SS*** likes her hairy dom, cept when the hair gets caught in the back of her throat
[1:27] Zealot Benmergui: again, it all begins with here consent
[1:27] ***SS***: -cough-
[1:27] Zealot Benmergui: *her
[1:27] ***tY***: yes
[1:27] ***AK***: nods
[1:28] Zealot Benmergui: I suggest More lube then, Miss Soderstrom...clear those hairballs right up
[1:28] ***SS***: lol
[1:28] ***HF***: that's right ...the D is only allowed to share with the s that which she allows him to
[1:28] ***GK***: hahaha therein lies the truth of who is really the DOM..perhaps it is the SUB
[1:29] Zealot Benmergui: A Dom is Dominant by nature, but the relationship depends on the sub consenting to submission, and the Dom accepting that responsibility
[1:29] ***AK***: Yes!
[1:29] ***AK***: Its all sudgestion. A sub can always say and can always say NO.
[1:29] ***tY***: D/s is about consent.=the Dom has limited power unless she consents to obey him
[1:29] ***HF***: but the s also needs the assurance that the D is powerful enough and smart enough to show his authority over her
[1:29] ***AK***: There is the control.
[1:29] Zealot Benmergui: please remember we are discussing RELATIONSHIPS, not scening or one off sex
[1:29] ***GK*** chuckles
[1:30] ***tY***: yes
[1:30] Zealot Benmergui: To think that consent is automatic, or not needed, is again, a lack of perspective
[1:30] ***tY***: right
[1:30] Zealot Benmergui: But it swings both ways...a sub can consent to submit, but if the Dom is not able to or willing to accept that responsibility, or if something goes wrong...then things fall apart
[1:31] ***tY***: I dislike intensely those Doms who think that submissives should automatically do whatever some Dom tells them..
[1:31] ***HF***: a sub needs that authority and Dominance in order to feel the way she needs to feel
[1:31] Zealot Benmergui: for a sub to assume that the Dom she just fucked is her master, or has accepted her submission tactitly, is a lack of perspective and could get her badly hurt
[1:31] ***tY***: right
[1:31] ***AK***: There are those out there te, Slaves. Very dangerous game.
[1:32] ***tY***: oh, I have a slave AV
[1:32] ***tY***: but, she is well protected
[1:32] ***AK***: Responsibility of that submission should be taken real serious. Find it crazy when someone says "I have 24 Sub"
[1:32] Zealot Benmergui: I agree Miss freese...often subs NEED the right Dom in order to fully realize their submission....that is wehy it is a Moebius strip, both sinds depending on what they get from the other to become something more
[1:32] ***AK***: In reality the DOm has 24 lonely idiots
[1:33] ***AK***: or 12 or 16 what ever.
[1:33] ***HF***: I agree with Andreas
[1:33] ***HF***: but in RL would a Dom really have a harem
[1:33] Zealot Benmergui: Slave chains are a matter for another lecture...but yes, they can be very difficult and require a very special dynamic
[1:34] ***HF***: maybe he would
[1:34] Zealot Benmergui: In another virtual world some years ago, I had 12 slaves...it became a job
[1:34] ***SS***: perhaps in a poly house Hel, but that number would probablly never work, too many sharing not enough to go around
[1:34] ***tY***: well, some cultures do have harems.. don't they
[1:34] ***HF***: like the guy who dates his girl and she knows he has his others
[1:35] ***HF***: but she wouldn't often get him
[1:35] ***HF***: like the wife who waits until her hubby has finished with subby no 7
[1:35] ***SS***: any sub that is not getting her needs met probably will not be around for long
[1:35] ***tY***: right sweet
[1:36] ***SS***: Dom's have a need to control, subs a need to be controlled
[1:36] ***tY***: guys can get greedy in here, then everyone suffers
[1:37] ***tY***: if they want a large chain, no one gets their needs met.. not even the Dom
[1:37] ***HF***: a fair Dom might say nothing or even encourage his sub to meet her partial fulfilment with another
[1:37] ***HF***: as long as she remained with him
[1:37] ***HF***: so many different ways
[1:38] Zealot Benmergui: All of that depends on the rules set up ina relationship...they are always very indivudual
[1:38] ***SS*** nods
[1:38] ***PM***: Zealot, a very good talk. Thanks so much for giving it. We need to head to bed. See everyone later.
[1:38] ***SS***: any relationship is built on trust, trust requires negotiation and honesty
[1:38] ***tY***: yes sweet
[1:38] ***AK***: Cya Parick
[1:38] ***SS***: once trust is broken the relationship is over
[1:39] ***HF***: bye Patrick
[1:39] ***SS***: won't make it
[1:39] ***tY***: it is one of the things I have said often too.. a good relationhsip has the same things in it.. whether it is BDSM or vanila
[1:39] ***SS*** nods at te
[1:39] ***HF***: not necessarily broken beyond repair though
[1:39] Zealot Benmergui: Exactly...it is like a cake...they all have the same ingrediants, just in different amounts...and some have raisens and stuff
[1:40] ***SS***: I don't know, broken trust is very difficult to regain
[1:40] ***tY***: giggles, yes, I guess
[1:40] ***GK***: and choc chip
[1:40] ***HF***: like Sir Zealot said earlier .... we are all capable of making mistakes
[1:40] ***AK***: and candles and rope and cuffs
[1:40] ***GK***: capable?..we all do...lol
[1:40] ***SS***: mmm... candles, my fav
[1:40] ***tY***: but I see trust and honsety as crucial to successful relationhsips.. no matter what kind of relationhsip it is
[1:40] ***SS***: mistakes are one thing
[1:40] Zealot Benmergui: trust can be hard to restore, but we all make mistakes and we should be open to trying..or at least, forgiving
[1:41] ***SS***: but a lot of time deliberate breaking of trust is blamed as a mistake
[1:41] ***tY***: very difficult to restore trust.. especially I think from a sub's point of view
[1:41] ***SS***: if I negotiate a monogamous relationship with my dom
[1:41] ***SS***: and he goes to another
[1:41] ***SS***: I wouldn't consider that a mistake
[1:41] Zealot Benmergui: then that is between the two of you
[1:42] ***tY***: if the sub cannot trust her Dom or Master .. she really has nothing, in my opinion
[1:42] Zealot Benmergui: discuss it, work it out, and choose to either forgive, change the rules, or step away
[1:42] ***SS***: a mistake would be if I forgot to do the dishes
[1:42] ***SJ***: yes sweet
[1:42] ***SS*** nods at Zealot
[1:42] ***SJ***: i agree
[1:42] ***GK*** looks at sweet..."i cant imagine you DOm needing another"
[1:42] ***HF***: i feel you should be able to forgive a mistake once ..but when it happens again ...it makes me think "was it a mistake"?
[1:42] Zealot Benmergui: the point is, discuss it..don;t just demonize