Who's on First?: Power and Powerlessness - 1/5/09

[7:09] Zealot Benmergui: The topic for today is ""Who's on First?: Power and Powerlessness"”. Today we will look at the concept of Power Exchange, some misconceptions about it, and how Power really functions in the Dom/sub dynamic. Please note that for the purpose of clarity, I will tend to use “she” to refer to a submissive and “he” to refer to a Dominant, but either can be of any gender. Your humble lecturer WILL accept tips, but they must be paid to me directly, if you are so inclined, thank you.
[7:10] Zealot Benmergui: Power.
[7:10] Zealot Benmergui: Come on, say it with me….POWER….POOOWWWWEERRRRRRRRRRRR. Feels nice doesn’t it?
[7:11] ***MM***: tough crowd
[7:11] Zealot Benmergui: That nice warm feeling in your loins, yes...it has that effect on us all, Dom and sub alike. Power..like chocolate coated viagra
[7:11] ***RV***: lol
[7:11] ***QF*** goggles
[7:11] Zealot Benmergui: Some say it is the ultimate sexual organ. Forget all that Brain stuff, cut right to the chase. POWER. It is attractive, addictive, all the good stuff…and one way or another is at the heart of nearly all D/s relationships.
[7:11] ***QF***: giggles*
[7:12] Zealot Benmergui: Power tends to also be at the heart of the mainstream understanding, and misunderstanding of D/s. We have discussed the view in previous lectures that it is all overweight men in bad leather products whipping women with unusual personality disorders and 70s hairstyles.
[7:12] Zealot Benmergui: Or so the mainstream tends to view D/s and BDSM.
[7:13] Zealot Benmergui: Add to this the fact that the mainstream assumes that all submissives like to be treated as child-like, gormless, spineless, sexually frigid dishrags, or like cleverly shaved cocker spaniels who missed a lot of school when they were puppies so never really measured up to the other cocker spaniels brains-wise.
[7:13] Zealot Benmergui: All in all, it makes for tense dinners when you tell mom and dad you want to be a submissive when you grow up.
[7:14] ***RV***: laughs
[7:14] ***CA***: hahahaha
[7:14] Zealot Benmergui: Why does the mainstream think this? Well, to a great degree it is due to bad porn and the mainstream’s vague awareness of something called Total Power Exchange aka TPE.
[7:14] Zealot Benmergui: The holy grail of D/s, according to some, is Total Power Exchange, in which all power is transferred to one half of a couple. Jon Jacobs wrote about it in the mid 90s as follows…A TPE (Total Power Exchange) relationship, sometimes described as an absolute lifestyle d&s relationship ... is a relationship in which no impediment to the exercise of the owner's power is accepted ... Such things as safewords, contracts, negotiated limits, and anything else which recognizes / acknowledges / formalizes limits on the owner's power are inimical to TPE.
[7:15] Zealot Benmergui: This is more or less consistant in online and RL aspects of TPE
[7:15] Zealot Benmergui: and is highly highly subjective.
[7:15] Zealot Benmergui: Some Doms swear by TPE....
[7:15] Zealot Benmergui: Me?
[7:15] ***MM*** swears at those Doms
[7:15] Zealot Benmergui: I think it is a massive crock or radiocative, optentially air borne shit.
[7:15] Zealot Benmergui: *potentially
[7:15] ***MM*** falls over laughing
[7:16] Zealot Benmergui: Most people in the lifestyle have different reactions to TPE. As I said, personally I don’t feel it is a goal to be sought, since I have enough trouble controlling every element of MY OWN life, let alone someone else’s. However, that is a very very personal issue, different for each of us. The exchange of power, to a lesser or greater degree, is the bedrock that D/s is built on.
[7:16] Zealot Benmergui: Allthat is really at question for each of us is the degree.
[7:16] Zealot Benmergui: If you remove everything else, the silly costumes, the sex, the at times antiquated terminology…you boil down to someone giving someone else power over a part of their mind, body or life.
[7:17] Zealot Benmergui: What parts are included, and to what degree, is where the hard work, and often the personal growth and fullfillment come in.
[7:17] Zealot Benmergui: Of course the same could be said for mainstream relationships too...however in theory at least those are supposed to be more equal in the exchange, and if they aren’t, they don’t usually discuss that fact except in divorce court. In D/s relationships, the power exchange is front and center and discussed early and often.
[7:17] Zealot Benmergui: Or it should be, if a couple is communicating properly
[7:18] Zealot Benmergui: A very major factor in any D/s relationship is deciding how much power you wish to exchange, in what circumstance, and in what manner. I have discussed rules a great deal in these lectures, and these issues are very import parts of setting the rules in a relationship. They need to be discussed openly and honestly, decided upon together and then stuck to.
[7:18] Zealot Benmergui: That means any CHANGES to those rules need to be discussed as well.
[7:18] Zealot Benmergui: If you have a relationship in which the D/s aspects are agreed to take place in private or the bedroom only, and then during thanksgiving at the inlaws you order the bitch to kneel, smear your cock with yams and suck it, that will cause problems and/or assault and battery charges.
[7:19] ***MM***: you could definitely avoid family holidays after that
[7:19] Zealot Benmergui: nods..or yams
[7:19] ***MM*** a lightbulb goes off in Mali's head.....
[7:19] ***RV***: lmso
[7:19] Zealot Benmergui: Similarly, if you have a D/s relationship in which the Master decides EVERYTHING for the sub down to which mesh skirt she wears over her chastity belt and anal plug when she goes to the grocery store then suddenly demands that she choose which DVD to rent that night, things will get weeping and hysterical really fast.
[7:20] Zealot Benmergui: Power exchange is like any other rule..set it, abide by it, adjust as needed.
[7:20] Zealot Benmergui: Part of understanding how much power exchange is right for you depends on the sort of power exchange we are talking about. There is having Power Over someone, and Power With someone. Power Over is the traditional interpretation of such a thing. You have the power to make someone do what you want, whatever you want just because you say so.
[7:21] Zealot Benmergui: Most of the time, the person being controlled really hates it and the one with the Power feels they are superior to the other. Some mainstream people feel that this also defines a D/s relationship. If it completely defines YOUR D/s relationship and that sort of thing SN'T your kink, get out now and never go back.
[7:22] Zealot Benmergui: If need be, I have two words for you..RESTRAINING ORDER
[7:22] ***MM*** laughs
[7:22] Zealot Benmergui: Just because you're a slave doesn;t mean you should feel like a SLAVE...if that makes sense.
[7:22] ***SD***: It does to me
[7:22] ***CA***: unless you like that?
[7:22] Zealot Benmergui: Which brings us to the second form of Power Exchange...Power With
[7:24] Zealot Benmergui: Power With is when the exchange and surrender of power actually becomes like an electrical circuit, empowering both Dom and sub....when the ability to give up power becomes power in and of itself
[7:24] Zealot Benmergui: As I said Miss ***CA***..unless it is your specific kink
[7:25] Zealot Benmergui: They say that ultimnate control rests with the one who consents to be controlled..the sub holds the real power in any D/s relationship
[7:25] Zealot Benmergui: much the same can be said of Power....
[7:26] Zealot Benmergui: by surrendering it, safely and with wisdom aforethought, you are actually gaining a tremendous amount of power, and vice versa....
[7:27] Zealot Benmergui: That is an attainable ideal, and can be a very veryh heady, emotional thing when it works properly.
[7:27] Zealot Benmergui: Consider this...the mainstream says that subs are helpless and powerless....
[7:27] Zealot Benmergui: Dom/Dommes here, if any...do YOU like having a totally helpless, powerless sub?
[7:28] Zealot Benmergui: Is there any pleasure in having someone already weak surrender to you in a power exchange?
[7:28] ***RV***: nope
[7:29] ***VS***: if you are Renfield
[7:29] Zealot Benmergui: For most Dominants, the true pleasure comes from Doming someone who themselves are accompl,ished and powerful, even though they are submissive, in general or just to them.
[7:29] Zealot Benmergui: That balance is a true Power Exchange, as there is Power on both sides to change hands
[7:29] Zealot Benmergui: Having Power Over someone is not hard...load a gun, you have it.
[7:30] Zealot Benmergui: When a D/s relationship is working properly, neither side is powerless...theur power is just different, and exchanged..they have Power With one another, not Power over someone.
[7:31] Zealot Benmergui: That is the real meaning otf Total Power Exchange, in my own viewpoint, and why it is something which is different in every relationship.
[7:32] Zealot Benmergui: Which brings us to the portion of our lecture given over to discussion, individual opinions, and much throwing of Lindens and panties at the lecturer
[7:32] Zealot Benmergui: What does Total Power Exchange mean to any of you?
[7:32] ***RV*** throws Linden panties at Z
[7:33] Zealot Benmergui: Have any of you ever experienced it, in your opinion?
[7:33] ***CA***: isnt wearing any panties
[7:33] Zealot Benmergui: Lying bitch, you haven;t worn panties since you were 8
[7:33] ***RV***: they're not *mine* ... they belong to some random Linden
[7:33] ***TY***: whatarepanties?
[7:33] Zealot Benmergui: I have to remember to bring my own panties next time and pass them out for throwing
[7:33] ***RV***: lol
[7:34] Zealot Benmergui: have any of you been in a relationship that included TPE?
[7:34] ***RV***: back to the subject ... i've experienced TPE in the sense of a Dom having complete control over me ... i didn't like it
[7:34] Zealot Benmergui: Why not Ro?
[7:35] ***RV***: i require more independence in my day to day life.
[7:36] ***CA***: i dont think being submissive requires a lack of independence
[7:36] ***RV***: it's the little things ... what to wear, what to eat, those are the things that i chafed against when my Dom dictated them to me
[7:36] ***CA***: at all
[7:36] ***RV***: no CocaCola, that's not what i said
[7:36] Zealot Benmergui: we are not discussing submission, but TPE
[7:36] ***RV***: we were talking about TPE, which is difference from being submissive
[7:36] Zealot Benmergui: being submissive certainly does not require TPE
[7:37] ***MS***: TPE means that you have no choice over anything at all. You effectively give your life away to someone else
[7:37] ***MM***: well it CAN mean that
[7:37] ***TY***: TPEismoreslavevssub
[7:37] Zealot Benmergui: somes Doms will say differently, but I don;t feel TPE beyond a certain minimum is required
[7:37] ***CA***: oh..
[7:37] ***RV***: nods ... that's what it meant in my case
[7:37] Zealot Benmergui: the T is the issue, Total...
[7:37] ***TY***: (forgivemekeyboardismalfunctioning)
[7:37] Zealot Benmergui: some call it APE..ABSOLUTE Power Control....
[7:38] Zealot Benmergui: which is a abetter term I feel, but less common
[7:38] Zealot Benmergui: also sillier
[7:38] ***RV***: lol
[7:38] Zealot Benmergui: Doms look dorky talking to naked women about APE
[7:38] ***MS***: Which is probably why they won't use it
[7:39] ***4C***e: i dont believe i've ever been in a relationship that included *total* power exchange.. but i can say.. its the power exchange that makes D/s so alluring.. the give and take of energy passing between the Dom and sub..
[7:39] ***VS***: it is also more evocative
[7:39] ***VS***: (ape)
[7:39] ***4C***e: each one feeding on what the other gives
[7:39] Zealot Benmergui: and number three in the Dom Rules is Don;t Look Dorky
[7:39] Zealot Benmergui: nods..I agree...and also the ability to surrender some control is very very attractive
[7:40] ***SC***: why would someone require TPE? Seems like it should be a choice to be discussed just like anything else
[7:40] ***TY***: LikeanythingelseintheD/srelationshiptheexchangeofpowershouldreflectthedesiresofboth
[7:40] ***MM***: wow
[7:40] ***MM***: cannot read
[7:40] ***MS***: giving control over is so addictive though with the right person
[7:40] ***MS***: who needs space bars anyway ;)
[7:40] Zealot Benmergui: Damn..say that three times fast
[7:40] ***RV***: well that's the thing with TPE ... at least in my definition of it ... there's no Exchange of power at all. that implies that both parties get some sort of power ... not the case in TPE
[7:40] ***MS***: i agree Rowan
[7:40] ***SC***: yeah
[7:40] ***TY***: space.bar.is.broken
[7:41] Zealot Benmergui: we understand Miss ***TE***, but we will tease you anyway
[7:41] ***MM***: maybe put a couple ..... (dots) between words?
[7:42] Zealot Benmergui: the single dots will do..even if it does make...you....talk a little...LIKE...William Shat....NER
[7:42] ***MS*** laughs!
[7:42] ***VS***: anyway, not that I am signing up but I think some would say that they gain from that total giving, perhaps
[7:42] ***TY***: as.wordy.as.I.can.be.I'll.never.get.to.say.anything.
[7:43] ***TY***: LOL
[7:43] Zealot Benmergui: in some cases yes...but first oif all, anyone who says they have TPE with an online sub is LYING
[7:43] Zealot Benmergui: or at least I hope they are
[7:43] ***4C***e: nodding
[7:44] Zealot Benmergui: and secondly, it takes an emormous amount of trust and experience between a couple
[7:44] ***4C***e: experience will help the journey not be so bumpy.. but trust is the kicker..
[7:44] ***4C***e: not many of us have gotten to this point without some trust issues
[7:45] Zealot Benmergui: and quite wisely so
[7:45] ***MM***: most of "us" haven't gotten to the point of TPE period
[7:45] Zealot Benmergui: TPE is so extreme I feel it shouldn;t even really be a goal...if it happens, let it happen organically
[7:45] ***TY***: in.my.experience.TPE.requires.an.enormous.time.commitment.as.well.also.nearly.impossible.online
[7:45] Zealot Benmergui: nods...online it is really a role playing game
[7:46] Zealot Benmergui: and not worth considering as a true D/s relationship, inmy opinion
[7:46] Zealot Benmergui: whereas I feel less extreme forms of D/s are perfectly valid and real online, just as they are irl.
[7:46] ***MS***: such as?
[7:47] Zealot Benmergui: such as D/s relationships that do not expect to be someones total world, or control their rl actions completely
[7:48] Zealot Benmergui: D/s relationship designed not to replace RL relationships, but enhance them, to adress needs not met in somone's rl
[7:49] ***TY***: online.D/s.can.supplement.rl.if.there.are.geographic.issues.to.overcome.but.again.short.term.
[7:49] ***MM***: not necessarily
[7:49] Zealot Benmergui: I cannot, and do not even wish to control what Mali does with every moment of her Rl day, it is not why I value her submission...whereas some elements, such as emotional closeness, intellectual intimacy, sharing, confiding, supporting...all of that is as real, if not more real for us online then they would be if we were standing side by side
[7:50] ***MM*** laughs
[7:50] ***MM***: feel free to deal with my clients and business issues Master!
[7:50] Zealot Benmergui: Those are the areas online D/s shine...
[7:50] Zealot Benmergui: Fuck no bitch, you do it...in the nude dammit.
[7:51] ***MM*** shudders at the thought of being nude near some of them
[7:51] Zealot Benmergui: geographical issues are real...but then I know some online rleationships that remain online even though they live across town
[7:52] ***MM***: and just fyi, I have no intention of our relationship being "short term"
[7:53] Zealot Benmergui: smiles
[7:53] ***TY***: I.can.only.discuss.my.own.knowledge.or.experience
[7:53] ***MM***: but I think the key there is neither of us has any expectation that it will replace rl
[7:53] Zealot Benmergui: nods..which is the purpose of discussion Miss ***TE***
[7:54] Zealot Benmergui: Exactly..or that it will involve any exchange of RL power beyond what we set....no TPE is required or even possible
[7:55] ***MM***: I can't imagine ever wanting that personally
[7:55] ***VS***: yes, but -- for those that do desire it,
[7:55] ***MM***: and the Dom/me that signs up for that, better quit their day job
[7:55] ***MM***: because the more power you extert the more time consuming it becomes
[7:55] ***VS***: I mean it is hard to ounderstand how it is logistically possible and, I agree with everything that;s been said but,
[7:55] ***VS***: people do desire it, why?
[7:55] Zealot Benmergui: For those that do desire it, there are ways it can be man aged online to a degree, but not absolute in my opinion
[7:55] ***MM***: stereotypes
[7:55] ***MM***: online dogma
[7:55] ***MM***: they see it as a goal
[7:56] Zealot Benmergui: often they desire it to please their Master..or because they think it will please him
[7:56] ***MM***: personally when I took subs irl
[7:56] ***MM***: if they even mentioned that as a goal, I ran fast the other way
[7:56] Zealot Benmergui: nods