Poaching - 1/13/09

[0:43] Srilania Svoboda: Ok, please take all cross talk to IM, and all collar, etc commands to the secondary channels!
[0:43] Srilania Svoboda: Please also turn off or remove any radar, scanners, or sleep Mystitools so lag is reduced.
[0:43] Srilania Svoboda: Welcome to House of V's College of Kink! I'm the Newd Teacher, Srilania Svoboda, and your instructor for this lesson.
[0:43] Srilania Svoboda: While I have only been in Second life for about six months, I have been about in the real world for many years, as well as out in other realms of the internet, as a submissive, then became a Domme, which I have done for about 5 years.
[0:44] Srilania Svoboda: For any that need to leave early, all transcripts can be found at http://collegeofkink.blogspot.com
[0:44] Srilania Svoboda: Today's subject is Poaching
[0:44] Srilania Svoboda: or
[0:44] Srilania Svoboda: Let's keep it to eggs, not people please.
[0:44] Srilania Svoboda: First off, what is poaching?
[0:44] Srilania Svoboda: No, I'm not talking about eggs. or food in general.
[0:44] Srilania Svoboda: Well, dictionaries are a bit ambiguous on that, but we'll use the definition as it applies here.
[0:45] Srilania Svoboda: Poaching-to take illegally, unfairly, or in a dishonorable fashion.
[0:45] Srilania Svoboda: Our focus shall be in dishonorable and unfair taking of another Dominant's collared submissive.
[0:45] Srilania Svoboda: This is an activity that is looked down upon, frowned on, and can get a person blackballed quite easily in the BDSM world.
[0:46] Srilania Svoboda: And not something one should even joke about doing, or joke about accusing someone of
[0:46] Srilania Svoboda: Why is it looked down upon?
[0:46] Srilania Svoboda: Well, let's look at what happens in a poaching. Dom A sees sub B, and decides that is the one they are looking for.
[0:46] Srilania Svoboda: But, sub B is owned by Domme C, and wears a collar to show that.
[0:46] Srilania Svoboda: Dom A, seeing the collar, decides to IGNORE this, and take the submissive as theirs.
[0:46] Srilania Svoboda: This is looked down upon, as it does not respect the relationship the Owner and the submissive have, and is often viewed as a low and selfish method of aquiring a submissive.
[0:47] ***TQ***: But Srilania, if the character you play here.. is a develish one....? then you should do that.. Pouching on purpose
[0:48] Srilania Svoboda: You are thinking of roleplay, not of BDSM. While there is roleplay in the BDSM world, and some BDSM in roleplay, I'm talking about the willful destruction of a relationship to satisfy one's own wants. sort of like someone going after a married man with the intent of making him leave his wife
[0:49] ***FL***: Many don't play a character here toshika and take it just as serious as RL
[0:49] Srilania Svoboda: There are a few methods by which the Poacher operates. Many poachers operate by culling, badmouthing, and promising.
[0:49] ***TQ***: But then again many play a character
[0:49] ***TQ***: like the demons.. the horned devils etc
[0:49] ***PS***: back Mistress
[0:49] ***LS***: maybe a costume not a character per se, toshika?
[0:50] ***LS*** listens to Misstress
[0:51] Srilania Svoboda: I know some people come at this here with the attitude that it's a game and can do whatever they want. that might be true back in Azeroth, where you assraping a giant snapping turtle is just you harassing a picture. However, every avatar you see here and elsewhere is usually a living, breathing human being there as well, and dismissing their attitudes and feelings as a game is quite rude and hurtful
[0:52] ***TQ***: Role play isn't a game... I am a drama teacher RL
[0:54] ***PS*** listens
[0:54] Srilania Svoboda: Aye, but some people do take this beyond the roleplay sense, and develop real emotions, feelings, relationships, and it can be difficult for others to understand this. For instance, I am physicly disabled IRL, and this is my only means of social interaction nowadays
[0:54] ***PS*** looks at Mistress smiling
[0:54] Srilania Svoboda: But, back to the class at hand.
[0:54] Srilania Svoboda: Usually, the Poacher, finding his or her target, concocts an excuse to get the submissive alone, or to a private area in a place.
[0:55] Srilania Svoboda: it can be innocent getting to know you, so don't go grilling someone for wanting to get to know someone better.
[0:55] ***TQ***: If some one is obviously playing a bad guy here.....the submissive should be aware and as in Rl don't go in dark places alone
[0:56] Srilania Svoboda: And yes, that has happened to me before, talking harmlessly to another's property, in the hopes of possibly being introduced to the collared person's friends who were uncollared, but their owner thought I was wanting to poach
[0:56] Srilania Svoboda: Once they get the target alone, the Poacher will usually find some method of souring the submissive on their owner.
[0:56] Srilania Svoboda: Most often, the Poacher will use half truths, lies, and innuendoes to make the Owner look bad in the eyes of the submissive.
[0:57] Srilania Svoboda: Such talk are things like "Well, she owns two slaves already. She's not a very good Domme if she won't drop them and be single with you"
[0:57] Srilania Svoboda: especially if the Poacher is planning on chasing after more after aquiring the one
[0:57] Srilania Svoboda: Between such talk are usually promises and innuendoes about how much better things would be under the Poacher's collar.
[0:57] Srilania Svoboda: Many times, the submissive, trapped by trying to remain submissive, but still loyal, shuts up and listens to these words.
[0:58] Srilania Svoboda: A practiced Poacher usually learns quite well what to say and not say to sway the submissive into breaking their collar, and can be effective.
[0:58] Srilania Svoboda: Many Poachers, once they have gotten their target, usually satisfy their urges, then move on to the next, addicted to the chase.
[0:58] ***FL***: sadly that happens outside the BDSM world in RL and SL as well. Poisioning relationships that is.
[0:59] Srilania Svoboda: Please do note I say many, as saying all is a generalization.
[1:00] Srilania Svoboda: Aye, this class isn't just for Second Life. this is also meant to take out into the real world, as many who practice BDSM here also practice it out there.
[1:00] Srilania Svoboda: And even if they don't, many of the same behaviours apply in vanilla relationships
[1:00] Srilania Svoboda: However, there are submissives that also play a reversal of this very same game,
[1:01] Srilania Svoboda: They are addicted to being chased after, and won from their Dominant.
[1:01] Srilania Svoboda: It is important to watch people like this, and eventually avoid them.
[1:01] Srilania Svoboda: Both the poachers and the poachees
[1:01] Srilania Svoboda: Neither the Dominant poaching nor the submissive addicted to getting poached approach BDSM as anything other than a game.
[1:02] Srilania Svoboda: As a BDSM relationship, like any relationships, are built upon the pillars of love, trust, and understanding, someone you cannot trust is not going to be a good relationship.
[1:02] Srilania Svoboda: Subbmissives getting approached by a Poacher should make sure they inform their Dominant of this behaviour, then follow the instructions of their owners.
[1:02] Srilania Svoboda: Dominants, if your submissive tells you someone is trying to poach them, try to handle it in a civilized manner.
[1:03] Srilania Svoboda: Don't scream and holler at someone for talking with your sub.
[1:03] Srilania Svoboda: That kind of behaviour could start sowing the seed of doubt that the poacher might not be telling the truth
[1:03] Srilania Svoboda: Communicate with the Poacher, or ask staff of the place you are in to get the Poacher to stop.
[1:03] Srilania Svoboda: Most places, like House of V, have Offiers and staff for things just like this, to ensure people have a good time without being harassed or treated poorly.
[1:04] ***TQ***: Srilania.. it looks to me that you think a sub is not very clever
[1:04] ***TQ***: my idea is the oposite
[1:04] ***LS***: :(
[1:04] Srilania Svoboda: And yes, House of V Officers, Concierges, and staff help make sure there's no and low drama solutions to problems
[1:04] Srilania Svoboda: If you Dominants wind up with a submissive, and you find them running off from your collar, then begging to come back, or enticing you to win them back, your best option is let them go.
[1:05] Srilania Svoboda: And no, it's not that you are or are not clever. It's about communication, which is the foundation of ANY relationship
[1:07] ***TQ***: Smiles I am not a sub
[1:07] ***TQ***: lol
[1:07] Srilania Svoboda: If you wear someone's collar, you should make sure the person at the other end knows what's going on, so people don't play games and try causing troubles in other ways. Also, there are quite a few submissives I have known that would feel so intimidated by this situation that they flat out would panick and not know what to do
[1:08] ***IM*** nods
[1:08] Srilania Svoboda: By recommending they communicate with their Dominant, it gives them a panick button reflex action, that they feel safe in using anytime
[1:09] Srilania Svoboda: And the Dominant, being more calm, might see it's not anything more than harmless conversation, or might, in fact, realize there is a serious problem that staff should be aware of
[1:10] Srilania Svoboda: Yes, it hurts to end a relationship. You probably want them so bad it hurts.
[1:10] Srilania Svoboda: But, poachees have shown themselves to be untrustworthy. You can't trust they won't go do it again.
[1:10] Srilania Svoboda: Now, sometimes a person is in an abusive relationship, and your desire is not to poach, but to help them.
[1:11] Srilania Svoboda: To ensure you're not seeing something there that isn't, communicate with others.
[1:11] Srilania Svoboda: If you talk to 5 or 6 other people, and they also see the same thing, then have others come with you to talk to the abused submissive.
[1:12] Srilania Svoboda: And yes, abuse can happen in a BDSM relationship.
[1:12] Srilania Svoboda: Especially if the people you talk to are close friends of the submissive, this ensures no cries of poaching can be made.
[1:12] Srilania Svoboda: Even then, the best advice is not to collar this person yourself.
[1:13] ***TQ***: I wonder what other think wasn't the invitation to a discussion?
[1:13] Srilania Svoboda: This ensures that someone can't come up and claim you trumped up the abuse accusations just to get the sub free
[1:14] ***FL***: Toshika, there are usually question and answers afterwards
[1:14] Srilania Svoboda: Again, it's an issue of abuse, where the abused can feel so intimidated by the abuser that they clam up and refuse any help, while without the abuser there, might work up the courage to admit there is a problem and ask for help
[1:14] ***TQ***: not in a discussionn Fabian.. maybe in classes?
[1:15] ***LS***: this IS a class
[1:15] ***MK***: /nods in agreement with ***LS***
[1:15] ***TQ***: Please join us at 12:30am with Newd Teacher Srilania Svoboda as we discuss the controvertial subject of Poaching, at the stadium.
[1:15] Srilania Svoboda: Fabian, it is both class and discussion. While Toshika could wait till the end, she's doing all right to bring something up before it slips her mind
[1:16] ***TQ***: this was the invitation I got
[1:16] ***TQ***: sorry I didn't understand it was a class accept my apologize
[1:16] ***FL***: Alright, it just seemed that Toshika wanted to disrupt the flow, but you are correct Srilania.
[1:17] ***TQ***: of course I would have kept my mouth shut otherwise
[1:17] Srilania Svoboda: Toshika, go right on asking and interrupting.
[1:17] Srilania Svoboda: Better to ask now and get the answers, than to keep quiet and forget a question, and it turn out to be something you need later
[1:18] ***TQ***: ok
[1:19] ***TQ***: I just gave my opinion.. no questions lol
[1:19] ***PS***: Opinions are points worthy of discussion
[1:19] Srilania Svoboda: But, if you talk with abuse councellers, they will invariably agree having an intervention with the abuser present will often result in the abused person latching on to the abuser. But this is also why you get people the abused person trusts, and that they also see this, so all can come and help her through things
[1:20] Srilania Svoboda: Sometimes, it can be something as simple as communication errors, and once aware, the relationship smooths out. but sometimes it is a serious thing.
[1:21] Srilania Svoboda: Finally, some have spread a strange and quite silly notion that to collar someone's friend or aquaintance is also poaching.
[1:21] Srilania Svoboda: This is a strange and silly notion, because if you were to ask the permission of every single person that might consider someone a friend, you'd likely need to talk to a few hundred people.
[1:21] Srilania Svoboda: Not to mention the fact that unless this friend was in your collar, they were not your property to own.
[1:22] Srilania Svoboda: For example, say Philbert and ***IM*** were friends. I collar Philbert. Can ***IM*** make a claim I was poaching because Philbert was her friend?
[1:23] ***IM*** smiles
[1:23] Srilania Svoboda: ***IM***, would you really be able to make that claim?
[1:24] ***IM***: Of course not, Miss Sri.
[1:25] Srilania Svoboda: because you did not have her collared, or considering, or anything. That would be like in the vamilla world 2 friends, one suddenly gets a date and whirlwinds into an engagement. the other friend might feel sad and left out, but can't claim the Spouse to be was cheating on her with their new fiancee
[1:26] Srilania Svoboda: However, some people have chosen this as their definition. If you find you are in a place or around people that do, find another place.
[1:26] Srilania Svoboda: I say that due to the fact that this can cause severe dramas and upsets, and we don't need more of that around
[1:26] Srilania Svoboda: Many places, like House of V, use a sane definition, as a friend is not a potential collar and therefore must have each friend approached and asked.
[1:26] ***PS*** nods in agreement
[1:27] Srilania Svoboda: While there are many varied practices, and some are contravertial, none are more frowned upon than Poaching.
[1:27] Srilania Svoboda: It demonstrates a lack of real communication, and without the foundation of communication, there is no love, trust, or understanding.
[1:27] ***FL***: I must appologize, Srilania and everybody present, I must attend to something, I really enjoyed this discussion.
[1:27] Srilania Svoboda: Questions, opinions, feelings?
[1:27] ***PS***: Thank you for attended Sir Fabian
[1:27] Srilania Svoboda: glad you could make it Fabian
[1:28] Srilania Svoboda: Please feel free to feed the Teacher. I eat Linden Dollars as well as most types of blood, and the occasional stray victim!
[1:28] ***PS***: aww, sister crashed :(
[1:28] Srilania Svoboda: All transcripts can be found at http://collegeofkink.blogspot.com
[1:28] Srilania Svoboda: For Class times and topics, Y/you would always check the Search/Events and look for College
[1:28] Srilania Svoboda: [ you have reached the end of the current notecard - resetting to first line... ]
[1:29] Srilania Svoboda: Thank you ***LS***
[1:29] ***LS***: you are welcome, Ma'am
[1:29] Srilania Svoboda: ***LS***. Sorry, my typing is never the best
[1:29] ***LS***: :) it is ok Ma'am
[1:29] ***PS*** thinks that SL has reduced typing skill globally
[1:30] ***LS***: lol
[1:30] ***IM*** giggles
[1:30] ***LS***: Ma'am i have a question
[1:30] Srilania Svoboda: Of course
[1:30] ***LS***: Ma'am what about subs who go after other subs' doms or dommes
[1:30] ***LS***: is that ever poaching
[1:31] ***TQ***: ohh, I am sorry .. tlephone.. RL .. thx you all..
[1:31] Srilania Svoboda: It does depend greatly on the type of relationship you have with your Dominant
[1:33] Srilania Svoboda: if you have the standard, which is usually polyamorous, it might be considered quite rude and unfair if a chain sister were trying to sour your Dominant on you. Now, if you are in a monogamous relationship and that's how it's spelled out in the beginning, and it's still that way, then yes, another submissive pulling the same stunts would be considered poaching
[1:34] Srilania Svoboda: But, as I said, it would greatly depend on the situation you're dealing with
[1:34] ***LS***: thank you Ma'am that clarifies a bit
[1:34] Srilania Svoboda: Well, I'm happy to clarify it all you want hun.
[1:35] ***LS***: please Ma'am say as much as you can or wish to about it
[1:35] Srilania Svoboda: Aye, but without questions to help me find what knowledge you seek, i could ramble and bable here till 2020 and still not get the answer you want
[1:36] ***PS***: Hello ***AP***
[1:36] ***LS***: haha. k well, i think i understand, Ma'am. even being so rude or unfair is not a good trait in a chain sister i take it
[1:36] ***AP***: Hello Philbert!
[1:36] ***AP***: Hi ***IM***!
[1:37] ***AP***: Everyone!
[1:37] Srilania Svoboda: Aye, but the reason I would not call it poaching is because it's just considered plain backstabbing, not poaching
[1:37] ***LS***: hi ***AP***
[1:37] ***AP***: Hi ***LS*** :)
[1:37] ***IM***: Hi ***AP***
[1:37] ***LS*** nods, because of the agreement beforehand
[1:37] Srilania Svoboda: And if I caught one of my own girls pulling such stunts, the one pulling the stunt would be in deep deep shit with me
[1:38] ***LS***: :)
[1:38] ***PS*** nods
[1:38] ***AP***: yes, i am a bit late :) tried to be here on time :) Just came to get a copy of the lecture from ***LS***
[1:38] ***IM***: So girl sees three reasons for poaching. The satisfaction of the dangerous chase, the breakup of an abusive relationship, and wanting a particular partner, right?
[1:38] ***LS***: will notecard it when its done
[1:38] ***AP***: thanks
[1:38] ***LS***: yw :)
[1:38] ***AP***: grins
[1:38] Srilania Svoboda: Well, there's another one later this week, a repeat of the same topic for those who couldn't make it tonight
[1:38] ***IM***: It, and all of the transcripts, will be on http://collegeofkink.blogspot.com too, ***AP***.
[1:39] ***AP***: thanks, but i get impatient waiting for them to appear - but shush! :)
[1:39] ***LS***: Ma'am how does a good Dominant look for signs of this type of thing in their family? just communication and awareness again?
[1:39] ***PS***: wb Geisha
[1:40] Srilania Svoboda: No ***IM***. Poachers are doing it because they want a particular partner, are addicted to the chase, or they honestly don't have a clue how to attain one themselves. Also, there's that attraction of a kept man or woman that goes on
[1:40] ***MK***: thank you Peanut-chan
[1:41] Srilania Svoboda: In any good relationship, there are 3 pillars. They are Love, Trust, and Understanding. These sit upon the base of communication, and prop up and keep all relationships from falling apart
[1:41] Srilania Svoboda: Without those 3 supports, the relationship falls
[1:41] Srilania Svoboda: And without communication, none of it's possible or will stay up
[1:42] ***LS*** nods
[1:42] You decline Pinned Hat Info from A group member named Morrigan Alexandre.
[1:43] ***AP***: that's so very true
[1:43] Srilania Svoboda: If you feel your Dominant is falling for this, you need to COMMUNICATE with your Dominant about it, and in a netral and supportive tone, let them know how you feel
[1:43] ***MK*** gave you Srilania's class on paochiing..
[1:43] ***LS***: makes sense Ma'am
[1:43] ***AP***: yes, couldnt agree more
[1:44] Srilania Svoboda: Does that help a little bit?
[1:44] ***LS***: yes Ma'am thank you :)
[1:44] Srilania Svoboda: Thank you for coming, and i hope to see you next week