[0:48] ***MM*** laughs
[0:48] Zealot Benmergui: The topic for today is "Lies Your Profile Told Me”. Today we will discuss common profile comments, and what they mean or don’t mean. Please note that for the purpose of clarity, I will tend to use “she” to refer to a submissive and “he” to refer to a Dominant, but either can be of any gender. Your humble lecturer WILL accept tips, but they must be paid to me directly, if you are so inclined, thank you.
[0:48] ***MM***: svet!
[0:49] ***SQ***: Hi! :)
[0:49] ***CF***: (Touched)
[0:49] ***SQ***: I still can't see anyone, lol
[0:49] Zealot Benmergui: We have all seen the profile cliches, the onces that appear in almost all profiles...rightly or wrongly
[0:49] Zealot Benmergui: "No drama", "Rl is Rl and Sl is SL"....
[0:50] Zealot Benmergui: and of course my personal favorite. "IM me, I don;t bite...unless you ask me to"
[0:51] Zealot Benmergui: The No drama request is pretty straight forward...vaugely impossible, but clear cut
[0:52] Zealot Benmergui: Drama is simply the life blood at times of SL, or really any online environment
[0:52] Zealot Benmergui: Lets take a quick mini poll...has anyone been able to avoid ALL Drama, or what they consider to be drama, in Sl?
[0:52] ***MM***: hell no
[0:52] ***JF***: nope
[0:52] Zealot Benmergui: That is, without actually killing anyone
[0:53] ***SQ***: haha
[0:53] ***SA***: well that counts me out too then
[0:53] Mona Corona: nope
[0:53] ***MM***: what? I'm not supposed to kill people???? When did you implement that rule?
[0:53] ***MM*** grins
[0:53] Zealot Benmergui: I never said you couldn;t...it is just it's own sort of drama
[0:53] ***SM***: mmm drama
[0:53] Zealot Benmergui: What IS drama, is actually a better question
[0:53] Zealot Benmergui: the term is used nedlessly in SL, as both a good and a bad thing..mainly bad
[0:54] Zealot Benmergui: *endlessly
[0:54] ***MM***: unnecessary emotional angst or chaos
[0:54] ***MM***: not all emotions
[0:54] Zealot Benmergui: nods...that is a good definition
[0:54] Zealot Benmergui: often times Drama tends to be OTHER people's angst and chaos
[0:55] Zealot Benmergui: we after all are in a social environment..a highly emotional social environment, so it is little wonder that at times the tide tends to overflow the banks
[0:56] Zealot Benmergui: I have heard it argued that drama is unavoidable if you deal with emotions at all in SL....
[0:56] Zealot Benmergui: and only the very very new or the very very scarred can actually think they can exist in Sl with out emotions
[0:57] Zealot Benmergui: normally the companion comment to "No Drama" is that Sl is just a game....
[0:57] Zealot Benmergui: which brings with it a whole slew of additional misconceptions and misunderstandings
[0:57] Zealot Benmergui: What about the statement Rl is RL and Sl is SL...
[0:57] Zealot Benmergui: is such a razor edged seperation really possible?
[0:58] ***bB***: i don't believe so
[0:58] ***bB***: real time emotions are involved, real time respnses
[0:58] ***SS***: Not one bit. It's used by people who want to behave poorly then dismiss the other person's feelings
[0:58] ***SQ*** nods
[0:58] ***YS***: I disagree
[0:58] Zealot Benmergui: nods...both of those statements are accurate..but I feel it is also a misused statement
[0:59] Zealot Benmergui: if they want to say that Private Information Is None of Your business..I feel that is more accurate
[0:59] Zealot Benmergui: What do you disagree with Miss ***YS***?
[0:59] ***YS***: Emotions can still be involved but one's SL does not have to be wrapped up in your RL or vica versa. This a plce where you can let you imagination run and you can be a big pineapple and play with pineapple friends, then you turn off the computer and take care of your goldfish...no connection.
[1:00] ***CF***: I think Drama is supposed to refer to when several people are in a fight that could be resolved with some logic and willing to compromise
[1:00] ***CF***: Which means whats keping it running is mostly emotion
[1:00] ***CF***: And ego
[1:00] Zealot Benmergui: logic, willing to compromise?
[1:00] ***bB***: i believe that even a 30 second visual and message is sufficient to alter perception and behaviour.....
[1:00] ***MM***: I think that's true....but.....too often people want a real relationship and want to keep their REAL selves separate....that's not realistic
[1:00] ***bB***: and interactions and rp in sl is longer than that
[1:01] ***SQ*** nods
[1:01] ***YS*** nods at Maliene.
[1:01] ***bB***: when the mind is engaged.. consciously eventually the subconscious and unconscious is also engaged
[1:01] Zealot Benmergui: Thatis the essential conceit in SL, certainly Miss ***YS***
[1:01] Zealot Benmergui: we are rolke playing at all times, to a degree, especially when your avatar is a talking komodo dragon drinking a martini
[1:01] ***bB***: so the impact on behaviour and mind here has the potential to be more substantial than a 30 second advertisement for pepsi
[1:02] Zealot Benmergui: but the emotions that dragon feels are still real, at least to a degree...
[1:02] Zealot Benmergui: because beyond the PC most of us are human beings
[1:02] ***bB***: and D/s engages the mind fisrt
[1:02] ***bB***: first
[1:02] ***YS*** nods and smiles. "Yes, there is a person behind the dragon. A person with feelings."
[1:02] Zealot Benmergui: *nods to Miss ***bB***...which is the direction we are going with this, regarding online D/s
[1:02] ***SN***: But if ego is involed at all...
[1:03] ***SN***: Them emotions are involved
[1:03] ***SN***: then
[1:03] ***bB***: nods in agreement
[1:03] Zealot Benmergui: I would state that there IS no way to have a successful D/s relationship on line if you don;t accept that drama happens, and that there WILL be crossovers between erl and SL
[1:03] Zealot Benmergui: *RL
[1:03] ***bB***: nods
[1:04] ***YS*** nods.
[1:04] Zealot Benmergui: Often times people feel that D/s online is simply a naughty video game
[1:04] Zealot Benmergui: and to some it certainly is...
[1:04] ***bB***: to even accept to be in a place at a certain time for an agreed session.. requires r/l rearrangement
[1:04] Zealot Benmergui: but for what I feel is the vast majority of us, online D/s relationships take on a power and force beyond the medium, and different in many ways then RL relationships
[1:05] Zealot Benmergui: The problem comes up when people assume, especially when they are new to the online community, that that won;t be the case...
[1:05] ***bB***: nods
[1:06] Zealot Benmergui: So lets look for a moment at those two statements, No Drama, and Rl is Rl...and consider how they could be changed to avoid people crashing and burning when they realise that they are actually weeping over the fact their naughty video game relationship just broke apart...
[1:07] Zealot Benmergui: Drama goes hand in hand with emotion....I feel that without at least a lkittle drama, you end up being seperated from the vibrancy in online relationships
[1:08] Zealot Benmergui: to say No Drama at all is like telling a Rl partner, that you will date them, as long as there is never any emotional pain or upset involved.
[1:08] ***SQ***: heh
[1:08] Zealot Benmergui: It is dooming relationships to be trivial before they have even begun
[1:08] ***SS***: that and an observation, that most people with No Drama listed in their profile are usually the biggest instigators of drama
[1:08] ***SQ*** nods and rolls her eyes
[1:09] Zealot Benmergui: In some cases..or the people who have in the past been burnt the worst by it
[1:09] ***SQ***: having bad memories :P
[1:09] ***bB***: well NLP would suggest that the only word that leaps out of the sentence is 'drama'.. better to send a message on promiting harmony or effective friendships
[1:10] ***CF***: Please dont say Synergy
[1:10] Zealot Benmergui: In both cases, the term needs to be defined...First and foremost I would say a good clarification is No PUBLIC or UNWANTED DRAMA
[1:10] Zealot Benmergui: ummm....synergy synergy synergy
[1:10] Zealot Benmergui: nah nah
[1:10] ***CF***: ;.;
[1:10] ***MM*** laughs
[1:10] ***CF*** has had enough from meetings
[1:10] Zealot Benmergui: smiles
[1:11] Zealot Benmergui: no I admit Synergy should be banned from all Profiles...so should Connection and god help us..Soulmate
[1:11] ***SQ***: lol
[1:11] ***bB***: perhaps we should push the envelope...LOL.... brainstorm.... see what shakes down... hehehe in a synergistic manner of course
[1:11] ***MM***: and people that really don't mean they will not be with others...should take that out
[1:11] ***CF***: And photos where your amazing, incredible, bestest ever partner is standing infront of you and takes 80% of your profile image shoving you to a corner
[1:12] ***bB***: oh yes.. poly and the use of alts would be nice to have
[1:12] Zealot Benmergui: nods to CS, espcially as they willbe broken up next week anyway, with a new Soulmate in place
[1:12] Zealot Benmergui: we will get to other Profile peeves in a second..lets finish drama first
[1:13] ***YS*** chuckles.
[1:13] ***bB***: <
[1:14] Zealot Benmergui: someone should make a velcro collar...with a little whiteboard tag that can be configured with a different name..Property of ______
[1:14] ***CF***: ... zomg. the tag being a small eraseable whiteboard panel, written on with a marker 0.0
[1:14] ***CF***: The amazing Office Supplies Collar
[1:14] ***YS*** says, "Must be set with all permissions."
[1:14] ***bB***: i think people should joyously embrace their veco-dom in sl.. make it clear.. like.. start a prous to wear velcro group.. stop hiding it behind declarations of undying flowery prose
[1:14] Zealot Benmergui: but..Drama...if we say no UNWANTED Drama..does that cover it better? what other points could be made?
[1:15] ***bB***: <
[1:15] ***SS***: Troublemakers shall be hammered with ball peen hammers till limp?
[1:15] ***SQ***: Well... isn't 'no drama' really just a request to 'please don't freak out at me?'
[1:15] Zealot Benmergui: Drama that directly concerns you I suppose, or your relationships..No Second hand Drama, like Second hand Smoke
[1:15] ***MM*** laughs
[1:16] ***MM***: like me and all my crazy friends?
[1:16] Zealot Benmergui: well, if they ARE your crazy friends, then drama comes with the friendship, at least to a degree
[1:17] ***MM*** nods
[1:17] Zealot Benmergui: certainly we all have a red line....but I know that the thing about Drama that bugs me most is the drama I am not connected to
[1:17] Zealot Benmergui: the aquainetence who IMs me with their horible break up rant
[1:17] ***bB***: i guess there is crazy... and kinda eccentric.. and then there is pathological, personality disordered fuck-up-iness
[1:17] ***bB***: <
[1:18] ***bB***: yep
[1:18] ***bB***: like on profile
[1:18] ***MM***: I'm not opposed to helping others through their drama, I am opposed to one-sided friendships where that is all I do and they don't do the same
[1:18] Zealot Benmergui: nods
[1:18] ***bB***: it would be so good if people could add their most recent diagnosis or whether they are online from the rec area of ther jail
[1:18] Zealot Benmergui: perhaps then No Drama Unless You Swallow MY Drama Too
[1:19] ***bB***: but...
[1:19] ***bB***: lol
[1:19] ***SS***: I usually try that, then I hear "You do me and I'll owe you one"
[1:19] ***SS***: Oh wait, that's oral sex
[1:20] ***SQ***: I think this may be being a little unfair... in my experience, 'no drama' people are very high-maintenance... but it's just because they're hurting :S
[1:20] Zealot Benmergui: Prostitutes don;t have Layaway Plans...the same holds true for Drama
[1:20] ***MM*** nods at Svet
[1:20] ***MM***: true but we all have limits on how much we can deal with
[1:20] ***SQ***: true :(
[1:20] Zealot Benmergui: and the limits changes depending on who they are
[1:21] ***bB***: and there are r/l self help and support groups with a presence in sl to assist people through these life challenges
[1:21] Zealot Benmergui: for a close friend or a lover or a Master/sub...we can take on a LOT of drama
[1:21] ***MM*** smiles at Z
[1:21] Zealot Benmergui: while for someone who IMs us in a club and says OMYGAWD You are opartnered with HIM..He totally broke myheart and put pictures of me having sex with a motorcycle all over his website
[1:22] Zealot Benmergui: we have a little less patience
[1:22] ***YS*** chuckles.
[1:22] ***SQ***: oh God :(
[1:22] ***SQ*** has flashbacks
[1:22] ***bB***: WB Stephen, Sir :)
[1:22] Zealot Benmergui: What about No RL...is there a way to make that a bit more realistic?
[1:22] Zealot Benmergui: For better or worse, RL DOES actor into even a casual D/s relationship
[1:23] Zealot Benmergui: *factor
[1:23] ***YS***: Set boundries.
[1:23] ***MM***: yeah but the boundaries are dependent on the person...who do you put that in a profile?
[1:23] Zealot Benmergui: nods...well first and foremost there is the rules about rl contact
[1:23] ***MM***: who = how
[1:23] Zealot Benmergui: voice, cam, meeting...
[1:24] ***YS***: Well I guess that is beyond the profile. It is when you get to know the person.
[1:24] ***bB***: maybe if D/s... the positive aspect. ie: that r/l protocols and negotiations aspects observed
[1:25] ***SS***: I got tired of getting hurt, myself, so cam, voice, meeting, they are hard limits for me
[1:25] Zealot Benmergui: a good point Miss ***bB***, but would thatbe understood by the troll who IMs you all night saying "You got a seky voice? we do voice, ok slut?"
[1:25] ***bB***: it seems to be
[1:25] ***bB***: i don't have that issue
[1:25] Zealot Benmergui: smiles
[1:25] ***MM***: that's easily fixed by having your nearest male friend log on your av and get on voice!
[1:25] Zealot Benmergui: good for you, sometimes it becomes unbearable for me
[1:25] ***SQ***: hahahaha
[1:26] ***bB***: it seems to be more prolific for the Males
[1:26] ***CF***: Alternatively, get your male friend to record a couple of statements and feed it into the mic the next time someone wants you on
[1:26] ***bB***: many complain of poeple leaping into im's demanding to be dommed or collared
[1:26] ***bB***: heheheh.. like i'm i sub... so dom me NOW
[1:26] ***bB***: sorry.. i digressed
[1:26] ***CF***: And fortunately I dont get alot of these trolls mostly because people dont really try anything with hybrids o_o
[1:27] ***SS***: There is a shortage of Dominants out there
[1:27] Zealot Benmergui: OK, well that is the normal problem of any online community..there will be the ones who are here as a tourist, and want to get colalred, Dommed, fucked and logged off while dinner is cooking
[1:27] ***SN***: you respond to voice with a male voice, you get called a male....
[1:27] ***MM***: well there's a shortage of dominants people want
[1:27] ***MM***: there's no shortage of people calling themselves Dom/mes
[1:28] ***SS***: I do not reffer to Domabes. I mean Dom/mes
[1:28] ***CF***: ... what does the mes stands for
[1:28] ***bB***: this is true enough.... i do think when there is a claim of l/s in r/l community that should be verified.. because that is a significant claim
[1:28] ***SS***: Dom and Domme
[1:28] ***MM***: lol
[1:28] ***MM***: how could that be verified?
[1:29] ***bB***: it's one thing to play at home in r/l.. to be part of the actual community openly.. a whole other ballgame
[1:29] ***MM***: I disagree
[1:29] ***bB***: well for example W/we are and i am happy to verify Abode Club in Melbourne
[1:29] ***MM***: although that statement is common
[1:29] ***MM***: it's not possible for many people to be out irl
[1:29] ***SS***: It is impossible anyways, given the issues people get IRL with BDSM
[1:29] ***MM***: and australia ain't america
[1:30] ***bB***: yes but if You are going to make the statement on your own recognisance on a profile
[1:30] ***CF***: I'm not gonna out my submissive tendencies to another Israeli.
[1:30] ***bB***: then need to be able to back it up as a valid claim
[1:30] Zealot Benmergui: There are sliding scales, depending upon each oerson's rl situation...
[1:30] ***MM***: it's illegal here blond
[1:30] ***bB***: because of the message it sends
[1:30] ***SN***: Nope, but San Jose is america
[1:30] ***CF***: It'd feel too weird o_o
[1:30] ***MM***: I'm not out and the majority of the people I know aren't
[1:30] ***MM***: and I'm none the less very real
[1:30] ***YS***: Second life is different things for different persons. It is just finding the right matchup and being honest. I think alot of the times, people are just not honest."
[1:30] ***bB***: but in sl if you make the claim
[1:30] ***SN***: The problem is people claiming RL...
[1:30] ***CF***: I keep it online where it can be my private little thing
[1:31] ***MM***: look...the problem is this
[1:31] Zealot Benmergui: it depends on what they claim regarding rl...
[1:31] ***SS***: It's legal here, but we Americans are too sexually repressed and uptight on average. Remember we were founded by religious groups who were so uptight England kicked them out
[1:31] ***MM***: all these sweeping generalizations and rules are all good and well
[1:31] ***MM***: but you cannot put all that in your profile
[1:31] ***bB***: noone ASKS a person to make a claim on their profile.. so if they make that one.. it sends a message of knowledge, experience, supervised development of skills
[1:31] ***MM***: it becomes nonsensical
[1:31] ***CF***: I dont think BDSM is strictly illegal anywhere except in certain mid-eastern countries. :P
[1:31] ***CF***: This is more about the willingness to expose yourself without the protection of the digital interface
[1:31] ***MM***: stating what should be common sense and what you sort out in the relationship negotiation stages
[1:32] ***SS***: Actually, in over half the US it is
[1:32] ***bB***: nods.. just don't lie and mislead is always a good start
[1:32] ***SN***: US: No one can consent to assault.
[1:32] ***MM***: that's true in MOST states
[1:32] ***MM***: not all
[1:32] ***bB***: it is true interfnationally
[1:32] ***bB***: you cannot contract out of a statute
[1:32] ***MM***: yes but he are post OJ Dv hype
[1:32] ***bB***: if there is an assault or battery statute
[1:32] ***MM***: so they do actually prosecute for it now more often
[1:33] ***bB***: bdsm falls under it
[1:33] ***bB***: <
[1:33] Zealot Benmergui: nods...it definely opens an enormous can of worms
[1:33] ***bB***: and rack and ssc is as important here in sl as outside
[1:33] ***SN***: Spousal abuse is the more common claim, and charge...
[1:33] ***bB***: nods
[1:34] Zealot Benmergui: long and short of it that lifestyle, that is, being actively involved in D/s in rl, may be in a community, may be in your personal relationships...may just be in one of your personal relationships...
[1:34] ***bB***: and even with informed consent in UK and OZ.. prosecutions still took place
[1:34] Zealot Benmergui: the best way to verify a claim like that online is to see if they have the walk to match their talk
[1:34] ***bB***: yes Z, Sir.. and not misleading about that is the important bit
[1:34] ***SS***: Aye, do they walk the walk, or just talk the talk
[1:34] ***bB***: but many here can't tell the difference initially
[1:34] ***YS***: Comes down to honesty
[1:35] ***bB***: they think what is told is real and the behaviours are refelcetive of the sub-culture
[1:35] Zealot Benmergui: nods...whichis why I feel especially online, mentoring and community is even MORE important then in RL in many cases
[1:35] ***bB***: agrees
[1:35] ***MM***: but there is no "REAL"
[1:35] ***MM***: that's the point we have to teach
[1:35] ***MM***: everyone has opinions
[1:35] ***MM***: there are really no rules other than consent
[1:35] Zealot Benmergui: nods...it is different for each person
[1:35] ***YS*** nods.
[1:35] ***bB***: but internationally there are certain common elements as with any sub-culture
[1:35] Zealot Benmergui: some women may find their ideal Dom online has never been in a D/s relationship in rl
[1:36] ***SS***: It's also a bit safer, as you have a buffer of plastic and metal between you and the person you are with
[1:36] ***bB***: that is why it IS classified as a sub-culture
[1:36] Zealot Benmergui: other may need someone with extensive experience...
[1:36] ***bB***: so honesty about experieince
[1:36] ***MM***: the main advantage to experience is they know themselves better
[1:36] ***bB***: is the key then.. that is what i am hearing... and this allows for informed consent
[1:36] Zealot Benmergui: truth be told, the truly inexperiences don;t know enough to realise they are inexperienced
[1:36] ***YS***: I think the first thing one should be honest about Miss ***bB*** is what they are looking for.
[1:36] ***bB***: nods...
[1:37] Zealot Benmergui: how many people do you see walking around with the tags and titles and names all talking about Dominance
[1:37] ***bB***: which is step one
[1:37] Zealot Benmergui: Master MasterDave Whatever
[1:37] ***bB***: and where it can be reflective of r/l elements in that area of self-knowledge about needs and wants... W/we teach a more reality based approach and assist in putting in good foundations
[1:38] Zealot Benmergui: There was a time a couple years ago in Sl that saying you were a "Lifestyler" meant you were D/s in rl 24/7
[1:38] ***bB***: it can be the most rewarding of relationships
[1:38] Zealot Benmergui: now, it usually justmeans you have some kind of rl experience in D/s or BDSM
[1:38] ***bB***: online or in flesh
[1:39] ***YS*** ahhs, "I am behind the times, I still thought it meant lifestyler 24/7"
[1:39] ***SS***: Should tell you something when most good Doms and Dommes sit there and reprimand a sub for calling them Master or Mistress, but many bad ones insist they be called that right off the bat
[1:39] Zealot Benmergui: Again, we are running into a situation that is subjective
[1:39] ***bB***: and coming out of a domesic violence situation with some bloke who claimed to be a 'Dom' seems to be common.. some think it is the same as D/s
[1:39] ***MM*** pets Ling
[1:40] ***MM***: but back to the profile issue
[1:40] Srilania orders minakothegothicgeisha to follow them. minakothegothicgeisha obediently falls into place behind Srilania.
[1:40] Srilania orders minakothegothicgeisha to stop following.
[1:40] ***MM***: how do you boil that down to something in your profile that isn't silly?
[1:40] Zealot Benmergui: nods...it is very very clear that in D/s, just looking at the argument about experience, there is NO WAY to really seperate Rl...
[1:40] ***bB***: nods.. and D/s foundatyion is the mind and the psyche
[1:41] ***bB***: don't need the actual body for that bit
[1:41] Zealot Benmergui: we have to accept that rl emotion, and background, play a major part in any D/s relationship online...if not, just go buy a copy of Bitches in latex and have at it
[1:41] ***MM***: so rl isn't just rl and sl just sl....but how do you state I'm not going to run to freaking nz and marry you tomorrow?
[1:41] ***MM***: lol
[1:41] ***bB***: this type of discussion... and virtual munches i think are very valuable
[1:42] Zealot Benmergui: The last Profile element I mentioned, IM me, I don;t bite...well, since most people in BDSM DO bite at least sometimes..that is even more silly then the rest
[1:42] ***bB***: maybe just put 'online only' as a hard limit
[1:42] ***YS***: I the profile gives the basics Miss ***MM***, other stuff has to be talked about.
[1:42] ***MM***: well no
[1:42] ***SN***: I've always thought the word was relationships...
[1:42] ***MM***: bc I'm not opposed to offline either
[1:43] Zealot Benmergui: perhaps state that the Emotions are RL, the Body pure SL...
[1:43] ***bB***: well then You wouldn't put 'online only'
[1:43] ***MM***: yes, that's what I said
[1:43] ***bB***: sounds reasonable X, Sir
[1:43] ***MM*** smiles
[1:43] ***bB***: Z*
[1:43] ***YS***: I do not want offline where I meet someone, it is not possible.
[1:43] ***bB***: succinct
[1:43] ***SN***: Since we all know people that run away from anything to do with "relationships"
[1:43] ***MM***: they do?
[1:44] Zealot Benmergui: well, there are various elements to Offline, Miss ***YS***...they do not all involve rl meetings
[1:44] ***MM***: I find the opposite true in sl
[1:44] ***MM***: they all want relationships or to be the center of my world
[1:44] ***SN***: Define the relationship you want
[1:44] Zealot Benmergui: in Sl, people run to relationships that they don;t understand or really want, then run to the next when that goes bad
[1:44] ***bB***: so if r/l meetup is not on one's agenda at all.. perhaps is good to put if it seems a commonaloty in interactions here.. that some seek it
[1:44] ***YS*** nods, "I know Sir Zealot. I find text very stimulating and enjoy someone who can actually put a aparagraph to gether."
[1:45] Zealot Benmergui: since relationships are SO MUCH easier to end here then in RL, they tend to be eaten up like popcorn
[1:45] ***bB***: yes... define what YOU want
[1:46] Zealot Benmergui: well, as I have expressed in a few different lectures, knowing what you want is not always easy, but essential for a good D/s relationship online
[1:46] Zealot Benmergui: and you need to be open to having your desires expanded or changed
[1:46] ***YS*** nods.
[1:47] Zealot Benmergui: This is a lot to expect to fit into a Profile...some people like me, just don;t try
[1:47] ***SN***: Growth should not be a bad thing
[1:47] ***YS***: But certain boundries cannot be crossed. Hard limits.
[1:47] ***bB***: yes....
[1:47] Zealot Benmergui: hard limits are different for each person...and even they can grow and change with time and experience and the right person
[1:48] Zealot Benmergui: as well as increasing self awareness
[1:48] ***MM*** nods
[1:48] Zealot Benmergui: I have always felt such things as hard limits and experiecne are best kept out of profiles...why confine yourself or broadcast such information to everyone
[1:49] Zealot Benmergui: better to share it with who you wish to, in the way you wish to
[1:49] ***bB***: i think the issue is perhaps don't put something in that is blatently misleading
[1:49] ***SN***: Nothing wrong with stating limits... you're not promising they'll change
[1:49] ***MM***: the reality is the people you try to avoid by putting that stuff in your profiles don't read it anyway
[1:49] Zealot Benmergui: for example..if someone has No Anal in their profile, that is far more rigid and confusing then discussing it with a partner, the reasons why and the nuances
[1:49] ***YS*** nods and laughs at Miss ***MM***. "So true."
[1:49] ***MM*** covers Ling's eyes
[1:50] ***SA***: i heard that!
[1:50] ***SA***: NO ANAL!!!
[1:50] ***MM***: shhh it's ok Ling
[1:50] ***MM*** pats her
[1:50] ***SA***: who doesnt want anal are they retarded?
[1:50] Zealot Benmergui: Shhh...just an example Ling...everyone likes Anal, it is like the Parfait of sex
[1:50] ***bB***: i think the profile is the place to state.. r/l on online only.. and if want to make any comment on it about knowledge or experieince which is designed to set people's mind at rest.. or make then more reassured.. then snusure it is accurate
[1:50] ***bB***: ensure*
[1:50] ***SN***: Always an option online..
[1:51] ***bB***: the grocery list of limits doesn't have to be there.. but a biggie is online only
[1:51] ***SA*** pants and slowly calms down .. looking at dad with raised eyebrows
[1:51] ***MM***: what does online only mean though?
[1:51] Zealot Benmergui: something different to each person
[1:51] ***bB***: no flesh to flesh meeting or relocation of the physical body
[1:51] Zealot Benmergui: which is the problem...and why even that I think is better in discussion
[1:52] ***MM***: we're not going to move in together tomorrow, nor does he want to...but he knows everything essential about my rl and has to bc he supports me in my rl as well
[1:52] ***MM***: so it's not really "online only" is it?
[1:52] Zealot Benmergui: thankfully, only the really scary types ASSUME that you are going to meet them in rl or anythingof that nature..and they never read profiles
[1:52] ***YS*** says, "That is one expression of a SL relationship Miss ***MM***. It is different for others."
[1:52] ***bB***: well there is the biggie... if He isn't in front of you and if your interactions take place soley via electronic means.. then i would argue that it is
[1:53] ***SS***: I too would argue that same point
[1:53] Zealot Benmergui thinks about that..and quietly cancels his plane tickets and family size shipment of duct tape
[1:53] ***MM***: so "online only" means you won't meet irl?
[1:54] ***bB***: for me it would certainly indicate that there should be no expectaions about such
[1:54] ***MM***: bc that's not true either, although not really very feasible...although it would have been true in most of my relationships here
[1:54] ***SS***: To me it's more interraction beyond what we are doing now. It' voice, cam, or meeting face to face
[1:54] ***MM***: see? it's not really all that clear cut
[1:54] ***MM***: voice and cam aren't online?
[1:54] Zealot Benmergui: nods to Mali, nothing ever is...just as in RL
[1:54] ***MM***: playing devil's advocate here people...but you get the point
[1:54] ***MM***: you each have different definitions of what those words mean
[1:55] ***YS***: For me online only means a few things. It would still have to be clarified even more. I just cannot be Dommed offline. Like a Dom telling me to tie myself up at a certain time then call his cellphone and tell him how I am feeling about it.
[1:55] Zealot Benmergui: once we bring in emotions, each rule suddenly has an exception..Rl is Rl indeed...
[1:55] ***SS***: they involve your real voice, or real image, VS the digital image of yourself, therefore is to me, more real life than I'd want
[1:55] ***bB***: you could argue the philosophical argiument that we are not really here, but it remains that online... is where the interactions take place.. i would argue i know the difference between physical presence and one on the end of a keyboard, telephone, email.. all are valid relationships.. but only one can walk into my physical space
[1:55] ***bB***: there is no doubt the emotional is here
[1:55] ***YS*** nods at blonderaven
[1:56] ***bB***: it is that for those seeking a partner in the flesh to flesh sense, some of us are not open to that
[1:56] ***bB***: informed consent... online.. not in my house, in my chair or in front of my children
[1:56] ***SS***: aye
[1:56] Zealot Benmergui: perhaps then we can use a profile statement "No Meatslapping"
[1:56] ***bB***: but.. real in terms of that interaction...
[1:56] ***bB***: yes...
[1:56] ***bB***: :))
[1:57] ***YS*** nods to blonderaven.
[1:57] ***SS***: LOL Zealot, then that denies masturbation, and many would not go for that one
[1:57] ***bB***: well depends who is slapping the meat
[1:57] Zealot Benmergui: and lets keep the kids out of it..for god sake think of the KIDS....
[1:57] ***SA*** gigglefits
[1:57] ***bB***: with the best of intention my hand will not reach out the the screen
[1:57] Zealot Benmergui: and then that brings us back to Teledildonics
[1:58] Zealot Benmergui: This discussion can certainly continue, though I must depart briefly in a moment, so let me cover some business
[1:58] ***SS*** has no problem with teledildonics
[1:58] ***YS***: Some people are able and willing to have all possibilities open, to meet in rl, to cam often and voice all the time. Others do not have that option but still crave and need the D/s ...I think both are validate and it is beautiful if it works for either party, no judgement.
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