The Wages of Sin: Punishment in Online D/s - 12/15/08

[7:06] Zealot Benmergui: Welcome A/all to the House of V’s College of Kink. My name is Zealot Benmergui, Baron BardHaven and I will be your host today. Some of you may know me from lecturing here at House of V and other locations around the grid. Others of you may know me as Mrs. ***AK***.
[7:06] ***MM***: LOL
[7:06] ***RV*** throws confetti
[7:07] Zealot Benmergui: Odds are tomorrow you will know me as the ex Mrs ***AK***, then as the moneygrubbing gold digger who soaked ***AK*** in alimony.
[7:07] ***MM***: awww poor A
[7:07] Zealot Benmergui: The topic for today is "The Wages of Sin: Punishment in Online D/s". Today we will look at how punishment is and should be used in online D/s. Please note that for the purpose of clarity, I will tend to use “she” to refer to a submissive and “he” to refer to a Dominant, but either can be of any gender. Your humble lecturer WILL accept tips, but they must be paid to me directly, if you are so inclined, thank you.
[7:08] Zealot Benmergui: For lack of a better definition, Punishment is an unpleasant or undesirable action that is carried out due to some other action. If a submissive steals from the cookie jar, or violates a rule, or has sex with her Dominant’s father, or some other trifle…odds are she will be punished. What form that punishment takes and how serious it is depends upon the individuals and the rules of their relationship.
[7:09] Zealot Benmergui: Punishment is one of those things which many people assume is synonymous with BDSM or D/s in one way or another. After all, to the uninitiated, they assume that BDSM is all scary biker gang refugees finding innocent virgins at the soda shop and punishing them with expensive medieval torture devices until they become docile, cum hungry little submissive girls.
[7:09] ***MM***: mmm torture devices
[7:09] ***MS*** smiles
[7:09] ***HZ***: stifles a giggle
[7:10] ***MG*** giggles
[7:10] ***RV***: mmmm cum hungry little submissive girls
[7:10] Zealot Benmergui: However, those of us who are IN the lifestyle know better. We realize that it more often means overweight men in badly fitted leather separates “punishing” the wife of their next door neighbor with a novelty flogger and velvet lined cuffs. Such is often the state of the lifestyle. However, to everyone, PUNISHMENT is a key part of D/s, even online…yes? D/s without Punishment is like Cricket without homosexual men in ugly sweaters, no?
[7:10] ***RV***: lol
[7:10] ***MS*** laughs!
[7:10] ***HZ***: howls
[7:11] ***MG*** bursts into laughter
[7:11] ***MM*** loses focus staring at the tiara
[7:11] Zealot Benmergui: Well, the two stereotypes I mentioned before, take place primarily in the real world. You know, that big meaty thing outside your window. Ignoring those two stereotypes for a moment, punishment in the real world is an entirely different animal then punishment online. For one thing, the traditional method of punishment, physical pain, is real in real life. Online? Not so much. Yes yes I know I have heard subs who will state that the act of being spanking online feels just the same as being spanked in RL, due to the depth of their submission and how masterly their master is. Sure fine whatever.
[7:12] Zealot Benmergui: If you believe that all the time, I am the widow of a weathy niugerian businessman who must needs to get many large assets from a swiss banking and know help you will give me by sending your account information to my newphew yes?
[7:12] Zealot Benmergui: *Nigerian
[7:12] ***RV***: giggles
[7:13] ***MG*** chuckles, 'yes i've often found that whippings and spankings online were not so... effective'
[7:13] ***MM***: god I wish they were
[7:13] Zealot Benmergui: if they were mali, you'd be in traction right now
[7:13] ***MG***: too bad we can't reach our hands thru the screens
[7:13] ***HZ***: even paddling oneself on cam does not quite do it
[7:13] ***HZ***: sighs
[7:13] ***MM*** laughs
[7:14] Zealot Benmergui: There are many things that can be transferred from your avatar to yourself effectively…emotion, arousal, love, hate absolutely…angst, lots of angst…physical pain? Not unless you have help.
[7:14] Zealot Benmergui: Or a very large dog.
[7:14] Zealot Benmergui: Or Power tools.
[7:15] ***MM***: mmm power tools
[7:15] Zealot Benmergui: Or all three.
[7:15] ***MG***: are we talking black and decker or hitachi
[7:15] ***tY***: psychological pain works pretty well
[7:15] Zealot Benmergui: If by chance you tell me you have a sub who in order to simulate being spanked she will slam her head in a drawer on command, I will suggest that she has been doing that for far too long and has disconnected her reality circuits, or you are lying, or SHE is lying and you are stupid. For better or worse, the giving of pain is just not a punishment that works online.
[7:15] Zealot Benmergui: Black and decker Miss ***MG***..the belt sander of lurrrvveeee
[7:16] ***HZ***: falls off steps laughing until it hurts
[7:17] Zealot Benmergui: Spankings and whippings and floggings (oh my!) just don’t translate well to SL…except of course, as part of sex play.
[7:17] ***AG***: sorry ***AR***
[7:17] ***AR*** np :)
[7:18] Zealot Benmergui: LOTS and lots of spankings and floggings and whippings and skull crushings and red hot pokers up the asseting and having your head nailed to a coffee table in sexplay in SL.
[7:18] ***MS***: ( apologies, crashed )
[7:18] ***MG***: (wb ***MS***)
[7:19] ***AG***: wb
[7:19] Zealot Benmergui: When you tell a submissive online she is going to get a good spanking, most of the time she claps and makes yummy noises. That is often not the reaction a severe, punishment minded Dom is looking for. By and large spankings and whatnot online tend to be 99 percent playful, part of the role play inherent in D/s online. All part of the game.
[7:19] ***MG*** nods in agreement.
[7:19] ***MM*** moans
[7:19] ***tY***: or, it isn't a punishment if it is a pleasure
[7:20] Zealot Benmergui: Not severe punishments...after all, one must consider...most submissives online enjoy depicting pain to one degree or another...so how DOES one pose punishing them physically. Do their nails? read People magazine to them?
[7:20] ***RV***: shudders
[7:20] Zealot Benmergui: Tickling?
[7:21] ***HZ***: once had to stay in mouselook for three days straight
[7:21] ***AG***: eeps !!
[7:21] ***HZ***: and did
[7:21] Zealot Benmergui: and that begins to touch on the next area I will speak about
[7:21] Zealot Benmergui: Regardless of the stereotype, physical punishments really aren’t practical in SL, and usually just devolve down to wild monkey rutting anyway.
[7:21] ***MS*** nods
[7:21] ***MM***: mmmm wild monkey rutting
[7:21] Zealot Benmergui: So should you feel, for whatever reason, the need to give or receive punishment in Second Life…how does one go about it? Well, you should make use of SL’s strengths. Namely the powerful emotional connections involved in online life.
[7:22] Zealot Benmergui: Make use of the core desire at the heart of most online submissions...the desire to please.
[7:22] Zealot Benmergui: The most effective weapon for punishment at a Dom's disposal? Disappointment.
[7:23] ***AG***: oh nuuuuuu !!!
[7:23] Zealot Benmergui: Not a paddle, not a whip, not a silly draconian device...just say "I had hoped you would be able to do as i asked, but I understand you just weren;t up to it...I thought you were stronger, I apologize for pushing you farther then you could handle."
[7:23] ***MM*** shudders
[7:23] ***MG***: very psychological
[7:23] Zealot Benmergui: and it works too...
[7:23] ***tY***: I would say to that.. 'no worries".. giggles
[7:24] ***HZ***: oh god yes
[7:24] ***HZ***: worst ever
[7:24] ***AG*** hates to disappoint ... makes me feel terrible
[7:24] ***MG*** nods, 'can see how that would'
[7:24] Zealot Benmergui: and can be adjusted from light upset to withering contempt
[7:24] Zealot Benmergui: There are other ways that a sub can by punished as well..as Miss ***MG*** mentioned, certain restrictions
[7:25] Zealot Benmergui: there are some viewer clients that can have that built in, such as restrained life
[7:25] ***tY***: punishment is personal.. what works on one sub may not work on another, you need to know what your sub considers a punishment
[7:25] Zealot Benmergui: and Xcite's collar system has such a thing built in, that can be triggered from a website outside of SL
[7:26] Zealot Benmergui: Exactly Miss ***tY***...since after all, the most effective punishments also bring you closer
[7:26] Zealot Benmergui: if in a punishment you also show how well you know the sub in question, then that is all the better
[7:26] ***tY***: agrees
[7:26] Zealot Benmergui: every woman likes to feel their Dom or Domme "gets" them
[7:26] ***MG***: tell us more about how the xcite collar can be controlled off sl
[7:27] ***MS***: yes
[7:27] Zealot Benmergui: NO, that is no much like an ad. I like the Xcite system, some people do not..check it out at Xcite if you are interested
[7:27] Zealot Benmergui: the Tokon system
[7:27] ***MG*** takes note, 'thanks'
[7:27] ***tY***: there is a new thig out where there is an xcite USB vibrator too
[7:27] ***AG***: they have it all online w/ video tutorials even
[7:27] ***HZ***: nods
[7:27] Zealot Benmergui: Javier Puff is also a friend, and I can say they have fine customer support should you need it
[7:27] ***AG***: a usb vibe ??
[7:27] ***HZ***: that has been around for a while in one form or another online
[7:27] ***HZ***: blushes
[7:27] ***tY***: yes
[7:28] ***AG***: yowsers
[7:28] Zealot Benmergui: that is Teledildonics..it has been around for a few years, just finding widespread use now, and entering SL
[7:28] ***tY***: they advertise them at xcite
[7:28] Zealot Benmergui: So, if we consider that punishments should be emotional innature, and depend on you knowing the girl in question, are there things to avoid in punishments?
[7:29] Zealot Benmergui: Absolutely
[7:29] Zealot Benmergui: First, always alllow an escape clause
[7:29] Zealot Benmergui: there needs to be a way for a sub to earn their release from punishment
[7:29] Zealot Benmergui: a way for them to please you again.
[7:30] ***MM***: blow jobs?
[7:30] ***RV***: mmm blow jobs
[7:30] Zealot Benmergui: That goes without saying
[7:30] ***MG***: doesn't carry the same weightage right
[7:30] Zealot Benmergui: Another imp[ortant thing to remember is try to make the punishment fit the crime...
[7:31] Zealot Benmergui: if you are punishing a sub for doing something against the rules...you can either make the rules unavoidable, by using one of the restriction objects like a chastity belt...
[7:31] Zealot Benmergui: or more effectively...remove the rule.
[7:31] Zealot Benmergui: "I had thought I could trust you, but clearly I can;t..so do whatever you want.
[7:32] ***MS***: yes!
[7:32] ***MG*** laughs
[7:32] Zealot Benmergui: Nothing will drive some subs to greater distraction then having their restrictions opened
[7:32] ***HZ***: laughs
[7:33] ***tY***: true. no restrictions can feel like no care
[7:33] Zealot Benmergui: It is also important not to make the punishment too draconian
[7:33] Zealot Benmergui: if the punishment is too extreme, it will just cause resentment
[7:34] Zealot Benmergui: when really the thing you wish to cause is a feeling of redemption, of absolution
[7:34] Zealot Benmergui: by being punished, and having you declare the crime paid for, it goes away
[7:34] Zealot Benmergui: no more guilt
[7:35] Zealot Benmergui: for some subs, a feeling that they were punished is essential for a relationship to grow
[7:35] Zealot Benmergui: Are their any punishments to avoid at all costs?
[7:35] ***tY***: "he doesn't care enough about me to ounish me".. kind of thing
[7:35] Zealot Benmergui: Yes...first, avoid any punishment you can;t enforce
[7:35] ***tY***: *punish
[7:35] ***MM***: degredation or anything that compromises the relationship
[7:36] ***HZ***: never mute a sub as punishment
[7:36] ***MS***: anything that goes beyond limits
[7:37] Zealot Benmergui: nods...exactly...do NOT push them past hard limits, to NOT silence them utterly, do NOT tell them to do something you don;t think they can do, and do NOT abandon them or send them away
[7:37] ***tY***: the best rule I think, is knowing what wil be effective for that particular girl
[7:37] ***MG***: can we have some examples please?
[7:37] Zealot Benmergui: A punishment should be designed to draw them closer to you, not push them away or make them feel betrayed
[7:37] Archer Steiger: Isn't Timelyness an issue?
[7:37] ***MS***: to feel relief at forgiveness means a well exacted punishment i find
[7:38] Zealot Benmergui: Yes, if their hard limit is she is very shy, don;t make her cum on public voice..or try to.
[7:38] ***tY***: agrees
[7:38] Zealot Benmergui: Do not simplymute them so the feel they have no voice or importance any more
[7:38] Zealot Benmergui: punishment should make them feel MORE important to you, not less
[7:38] ***tY***: it comes down to dominants knowing their subs.. the better they know them, the more likely they are to get the punishment right
[7:39] Zealot Benmergui: Do not tell them to remain nude at home when they have a family there....do not depmand they do something that would make them choose between you and their rl.
[7:39] ***MS***: may i offer an example Zealot? just a recent one that i disliked but was very effective
[7:39] Zealot Benmergui: and most importantly, do not send them away from you...
[7:39] Zealot Benmergui: please Miss ***MS***
[7:40] ***MS***: thank You.
[7:41] ***MS***: basically my Master tapped into my vanity and chose a seasonal outfit (which isn't very 'me') and decided i should go to the place i enjoy going the most and greet everyone who greeted me with a seasonal message - from 'Master Corbin's little xmas elf'
[7:41] ***tY***: laughs
[7:41] ***AG***: hahaha
[7:41] ***tY***: and that worked because he knew you well and what you would consider to be a puishment
[7:41] ***MS***: this lasted for three days and was hard, because although it showed His possession was accurate because He used my own vanity. once it was over i was very grateful.
[7:41] Zealot Benmergui: smiles
[7:42] ***AG*** cuts her laughter short remember her Owner would make her wear pink as a punishment *cringes*
[7:42] Zealot Benmergui: Mmhmm...that would do it alright
[7:42] Zealot Benmergui: one final warning, then I am sure you ALL have punishments to relate
[7:42] ***MG***: very ingenious
[7:43] Zealot Benmergui: never exact a punishment that makes a sub feel or realize that she really doesn;t need you..like abandonment
[7:43] Zealot Benmergui: once she gets past the shock of being alone, she may decide she likes it, or at least, likes not having YOU around
[7:43] ***tY***: that would be a counter productive punishment indeed
[7:46] Zealot Benmergui: beyond which, it violates the key tenates of D/s
[7:46] Zealot Benmergui: a punishment should be effective, but it shouldn't sever the bonds of trust and security and support that are essential for a Dom and a sub
[7:46] Zealot Benmergui: ideally, a punishment is temporary, but your relationship continues...remember which is the more important
[7:47] ***tY***: wise words
[7:47] Zealot Benmergui: Now then, on with the jello discussing
[7:47] ***RV*** wrestles Mali
[7:47] Zealot Benmergui: Does anyone have an especially stupid punishment to relate to us?
[7:47] ***VS***: Yes
[7:48] ***MM*** lets Rowan win and kisses her
[7:48] ***VS***: It's one of the most disturbing things Ive seen in SL,
[7:48] Zealot Benmergui: Please Miss ***VS***
[7:48] ***tY***: my slave av got a whipping once for punishment, I laughed all the way through it ..
[7:48] ***VS***: a woman made to wear an ugly avie, very ugly and dance about in j=kajira silks
[7:48] ***VS***: about a week later, she belonged to someone else from what I could see
[7:48] Zealot Benmergui: not a surprise
[7:48] Zealot Benmergui: and sounds like a good move on her part
[7:49] Zealot Benmergui: remember, your sub is here to enjoy herself just like you are..if you make being here unpleasant for you, she will leave, or just leave YOU
[7:49] ***VS***: But that punishment,
[7:49] ***MM*** raises her hand
[7:49] ***VS***: it was hard for observers too
[7:49] Zealot Benmergui: yes my Mali
[7:49] Zealot Benmergui: I am sure it was..I would have IMed her with support seeing that
[7:50] ***VS***: yes, a good thought
[7:50] ***MM***: too often in SL you see people publicly punishing for what really are relationship issues and not an agreed up on set of rules.....
[7:50] ***MM***: as a member of the public I really don't want to see it or hear their dirt
[7:50] Zealot Benmergui: dramacreep
[7:50] ***RV*** agrees
[7:50] Zealot Benmergui: it is very common, especially in voice
[7:50] ***MM***: but equally it's ridiculous and counter productive to communication on important issues
[7:50] ***tY***: (never has voice on so misses all that)
[7:51] ***MS***: i turn my voice off usually because of that.
[7:51] Zealot Benmergui: some people like public punishments, so makje the PUNISHMENT public, not the crying and harranging before hand
[7:51] Meringue Pavlova is Online
[7:51] Zealot Benmergui: If most of the people in D/s clubs wanted to hear/read a couple bitching at each other, they would go upstairs for dinner with Mom and Dad
[7:51] ***AR*** up!
[7:51] ***MM*** laughs
[7:52] ***HZ***: smiles
[7:52] ***AR*** Thank you for the lesson Zealot, wish all a good time :)
[7:52] ***tY***: waves to ****AR***
[7:52] Zealot Benmergui: You also raised another good point Mali...remember punishments should be reserved for the breaking of preagreed rules.
[7:53] Zealot Benmergui: if something displeases you, that does not come under something that you have discussed, it is not time for punishment, it is time for a talk and a changing of the rules
[7:53] ***tY***: true, you can't opunish for something that a girl did not know was wrong
[7:53] Zealot Benmergui: Be well Aiko
[7:53] Zealot Benmergui: Too often both Subs and Doms assume the other will be clairvoyant
[7:53] ***MS***: indeed
[7:53] ***MM***: and if he says he won't talk to you for a month...he is DUMPING you , not punishing you, no matter what he says
[7:53] Zealot Benmergui: "Yes, I said she could flirt with whoever she wanted...but I didn;t mean HIM!!!
[7:53] ***tY***: right, neither are psychic to my knowledge
[7:54] ***tY***: yes mali
[7:54] Zealot Benmergui: nods
[7:54] Zealot Benmergui: that is what he is doing...since it is insane to expect you to sit in Sl waiting for him to allow you back into his favor
[7:54] ***MS***: my limits are basically to avoid predatory Dom/mes! i'm fortunate in that He trusts me, so i may IM freely within those limits
[7:54] Zealot Benmergui: a punishment should be short, sensible, and well balanced...and show each side the strength of their relationship
[7:55] Zealot Benmergui: it should draw the weakness into sharp relief
[7:55] Zealot Benmergui: *shouldn;t
[7:55] Zealot Benmergui: or worse, weaken things further
[7:56] ***HZ***: punishment should be as much a learning experience as a punishment, inmho
[7:56] ***tY***: I think it is an important point that Sir Zealot makes.. ounishment is used to strengthen the relationship.. not weaken it
[7:56] Zealot Benmergui: before we continue, let me complete some business...
[7:56] ***tY***: (punishment)
[7:57] Zealot Benmergui: remmeber you may join my notification group, Zbang, or check my website http://bardhaven.wordpress.com for my speaking schedule
[7:57] Zealot Benmergui: also, in order to keep me in gin and qualudes, your lkecture does accept tips, but the must be paid directly to me, in plain envelopes
[7:58] ***MS*** grins
[7:58] Zealot Benmergui: my next discussion will be on thursday early morning, 00:30, and be entiled Between a Rock and a Hard Place: hard Limits in Online D/s