The Man Behind the Curtain – Third Parties in D/s Relationships - 12/1/08

[7:11] Zealot Benmergui: Welcome A/all to the House of V’s College of Kink. My name is Zealot Benmergui, Baron BardHaven and I will be your host today. Some of you may know me from lecturing here at House of V and other locations around the grid. Others of you may know me from my recent featured role as “Corpse without Pants in Kitchen” in the reality show Growing Up Gotti . Basaed on that experience I will soon begin producing an SL BDSM reality show entitled “OMFGBBQ DRAMA OH HAI IM CUMMING LOL”.
[7:11] ***RV***: lmao
[7:11] Zealot Benmergui: Hello A
[7:11] ***MM*** laughs
[7:11] ***AK***: Greetings Z
[7:12] ***UN*** waves to everyone.
[7:12] Zealot Benmergui: The topic for today is "The Man Behind the Curtain – Third Parties in D/s Relationships”. Today we will look at the different people who can support, or destroy, a D/s or BDSM relationship online. Please note that for the purpose of clarity, I will tend to use “she” to refer to a submissive and “he” to refer to a Dominant, but either can be of any gender. Your humble lecturer WILL accept tips, but they must be paid to me directly, if you are so inclined, thank you.
[7:12] Zealot Benmergui: Relationships, as anyone who has survived one knows, can be shifty, tricksy things. Ideally, the only two people who should be relevant in a relationship are the man and a woman involved, or the man and the man, or the woman and the woman, or in Gor, the man and the woman, woman, woman, woman, woman and Great Feathered Slorch. Interaction between these parties should be free and comfortable, with everyone understanding one another. However we all know that is seldom the case. For one thing, Slorch are really bad at communicating their deepest feelings.
[7:13] Zealot Benmergui: And they smell funny.
[7:13] Zealot Benmergui: However, relationship difficulties are usually more than Slorch deep. Communications break down, misunderstandings arise, resentments and assumptions and overreactions often rule the day. In those circumstances we often realize that there are far more people involved in a relationship then meet the eye. In fact, we all tend to have quite a few poseballs in our bed that we don’t usually think about/ At the very late there are a lot of threesomes out there labeled. “Take Her”, “Be Taken” and “Stand to the side and criticize”. These additional “concerned parties” can either do a relationship a great deal of good, or a great deal of evil depending on their attitudes, and how they are handled.
[7:14] Zealot Benmergui: In order to not keep you here until Christmas (shudder) I would like to look at three different “classes” of third parties, and the impact they can have on a relationship. First I would like to look at Protectors/Mentors. These are mainly people who are involved with the submissive side of a relationship.
[7:15] Zealot Benmergui: Dominants who need Protectors, for instance, tend to worry me a little bit, as they just don;t seem to be catching onto the program.
[7:15] ***MM***: LOL
[7:15] ***RV***: lol
[7:15] ***TD*** giggles a lot
[7:15] Zealot Benmergui: Protectors tend to be “Master Lite” for uncollared submissives, giving them someone to keep the worst of the trolls at bay and to direct potential Masters. Protectors are especially good for giving a submissive (especially a newcomer to the lifestyle or someone hurt in their previous relationship) a sense of security and structure without claiming all the rights of a master. In my opinion, this is the role of a friend not a lover and should be platonic, but it is not uncommon for submissives to have sex with their Protectors. The old adage that the only way to get over one Dom is to get under another Dom is often in play dealing with Protectors.
[7:16] Zealot Benmergui: PLus many Doms will use it as a dodge to get more tail. Shocking I know, but it happens. NO baby, I am certain if you suck my cock you will feel so much more secure in your desirability and submissive nature...plus we can test your webcam....don;t want to have a nasty webcam accident with your new Master..."
[7:17] ***RV***: lolol
[7:17] ***MM***: mmm cock
[7:17] Zealot Benmergui: Mentors are a bit less hands on “cough”….acting as advisors to both submissives and new Dominants, answering questions and providing guidance. Both of these roles typically are relevant to the uncollared, but oftentimes they will still be involved after a submissive is collared, especially Mentors. A Master is usually aware of them but sometimes is clueless, or don’t realize their submissive is still getting guidance from them. In my opinion, usually these are positive forces, since it is always a good idea I feel for a submissive to have other voices to listen to or talk to when they don’t wish to discuss something with their Master yet.
[7:18] Zealot Benmergui: Of course, they are not ALWAYS positive. Often Protectors will decide they are “Master in waiting” and will undermine a subs confidence in her master or actively work to separate them. Mentors will seek to sets themselves up as “Devil’s Advocate”, severely damaging a sub’s confidence in her own judgment. Master’s should be aware if their sub starts asking questions or making statements that don’t sound like “her” or seem coached. It never hurts to enquire if they have been talking to other people about relationship issues, and if so to ask what they have been saying.
[7:18] ***AK***: Is A Protector IM me after the Lecture
[7:18] Zealot Benmergui: In the best of situations, perhaps the Dom may learn something from their views as well, or if they feel the input is detrimental, they can speak to the Protector/Mentor directly or seek to counter their arguments. I don’t advise just telling a sub she can’t speak to them anymore, since that sort of restriction is asking for trouble, emotionally charged and almost impossible to monitor or enforce. Better to work with what you can see, then work against what you can’t.
[7:19] Zealot Benmergui: Be sure to include a screen cap of yourself nude and a kinks list in that Protector IM to ***AK***
[7:19] ***MM***: ROFL
[7:20] Zealot Benmergui: Bowzers and Dramallamas need not apply
[7:20] ***RV***: did you just say "dramallamas"?
[7:20] ***UN*** makes a note. ;)
[7:20] Zealot Benmergui: The second sort of involvement I want to talk about are Friends on both sides. Too often the people close to subs and Doms are overlooked or dismissed as not relevant, when they play an enormous role in any relationship.
[7:20] ***TD*** purrs giggling away
[7:21] Zealot Benmergui: Oh boy did I ***RV***, if there is one thing my boy A don;t need more of, it's Drama...it interferes with his erections.
[7:21] ***RV***: lolol
[7:21] ***AK***: indeed thanks for looking out for me honey bun MWAH
[7:22] Zealot Benmergui: winks at A, tosses him the apple from ***RV***, and continues
[7:22] ***MM*** moans
[7:22] Zealot Benmergui: Friends can support a couple through dark times, tarnish the glory of the good times and make or break any collar. I urge both subs and Doms to woo one another’s friends, and to make certain that you keep your own friends informed about where you are at and how you are feeling. They are a tremendous resource for advice, comfort, or simply to have someone to gush or complain to about your love or share x-rated notecards. Nothing says love like showing a friend a screen cap of yourself being fucked by Master with an enormous sturgeon.
[7:22] ***CB*** laughs
[7:22] ***AK***: mmmm apple
[7:22] ***RV***: and we're back to the fish again
[7:22] ***MM***: mmm sturgeon
[7:22] ***TD*** grins
[7:23] Zealot Benmergui: Of course, that is in the best case…in the worst case, friends can be pools of smoldering, bubbling negativity or worse. They can be jealous, underhanded, vindictive guttersluts, or judgmental, cruel sneerers…and these are just the nice ones. Friends outside the lifestyle can be even worse, starting with “how can you be such a deviant, sick dishrag to let some asshole you have never even met think he OWNS you????” and getting much worse from there.
[7:23] ***TD***: fishies
[7:23] ***AK***: mmmm guttersluts
[7:24] ***CB***: lol
[7:24] Zealot Benmergui: The way to counter this negative influence is first and foremost, try to show them the reasons why you have made the choices you have, and try to make clear you are happy as you are, or with your new master/sub. If they are true friends, even if they state concerns or reservations, they will want you to be happy. If they are NOT true friends, then this may be a good excuse to find some new ones…or have the old ones killed by nymphomanical pirates with vaginal rabies.
[7:24] ***CB*** grins and shakes her head slightly
[7:25] Zealot Benmergui: Friends can sometimes be the best part of a relationship, and their are several situations where I no longer have much contact with former subs or women I have been with, but I still have some of the friends she introduced me to in my life.
[7:26] Zealot Benmergui: The last group I have to mention can be the trickiest to manage...namely exes. EX masters and ex subs are often the people who know us best, and would have the most useful advice, if we can make our way through the minefield to get to it.
[7:27] Zealot Benmergui: If a break with an ex master or sub was amicable, even then it may take a long time before you can discuss a current relationship with them...but when you can, it can often be the most supportive, comforting, informative sort of advice you can get. When you have been throguh the fires with someone and come out the other side, they often share a connection to you that few other people do.
[7:28] Zealot Benmergui: As a Master and a Dom, I encourage women to keep in touch with former loves...since love is a thing which only grows the more you give. If a woman is the sort who closes the door on every former relationship and has nothing but bad to say about them no matter how good the relationship may have been, this to me is a warning flag.
[7:29] Zealot Benmergui: If they are that way about all other former men, I am sure I will be joining the list of baastards in due time.
[7:29] ***AK*** is on that list
[7:29] ***AK*** smiles
[7:30] Zealot Benmergui: If your sub or Master has stayed on good terms with theiur former loves, they may also be a resource for you, to ask questions, to get insights from..or just to Im "OH MY GOD HE IS OUT OF HIS FUCKING MIND" during sex
[7:31] ***MM***: lol
[7:31] Zealot Benmergui: Of course, as with all of these catagories, Exes can be a double edged sword...
[7:31] Zealot Benmergui: Sometimes Exes aren't happy with being Ex, or just want to stir the pot and complicate matters for you.
[7:31] ***TD*** giggles with a purr
[7:32] ***AK*** hugs ***TD***
[7:33] ***TD*** blinks and hisses
[7:33] ***AK*** grins evily
[7:34] Zealot Benmergui: They must certainly be handled with care, and often taken with a grain of salt..and if you ARE going to have dealings with your sub or Master's ex, make sure you mentionit to them. No Master likes notecards from their former love saying...."Your new cunt sopke to me yesterday, and i am sorry to hear you still refuse to put away the poseballs after you have hussies over while she is offline...I filled her in on some of your finer moments, you sorry prick..hope you like Hustler, cause that is ALL you'll be stroking to tonight..."
[7:34] ***MM***: LOL
[7:34] ***RV***: laughs
[7:35] ***AK*** grins at his presant situation lmao
[7:35] ***TD***: smirks
[7:36] Zealot Benmergui: These different sets of third party influences on a D/s relationship can all be very positive or very negative, depending on how you handle them as a couple. Remember to communicate and be open with one another about your history and expectations...and you will be alright, no matter WHAT your master likes to do with Sturgeon
[7:36] ***TD***: fishies... give give!
[7:36] Zealot Benmergui: Now then, as always, I will open the floor to whining, discussing, questioning, loud masterbation and tips for the lecturer.
[7:36] ***AK***: poultry take take
[7:36] ***MM*** whines
[7:37] ***SD*** giggles...
[7:37] Zealot Benmergui: Are their any ***CB***tory of third party I left out?
[7:37] Zealot Benmergui: *catagory
[7:37] ***VS***: Yes
[7:37] Zealot Benmergui: Yes Miss ***VS***?
[7:37] ***VS***: The unwilling one -
[7:37] Zealot Benmergui: unwilling one?
[7:38] ***VS***: one complains constatnly about the second, and the second thinks you want the first
[7:38] Zealot Benmergui: tries to follow that
[7:38] ***AK***: epic
[7:38] ***RV*** fails
[7:38] ***SD*** thinks she has it
[7:38] ***VS***: OK person a compolains constatnly about Sub b to friend c
[7:38] Zealot Benmergui: ok
[7:39] ***VS***: sub b thinks friend c is after dom a and the cause of all thoer troubles but --
[7:39] ***VS***: isn't
[7:39] ***AK***: i find mud wrestleing helps to solve those issues
[7:39] ***RV*** grins
[7:40] ***VS***: unwilling mud wrestinglin - yes, a good description
[7:40] ***AK***: sub b strips sub c and Dom A waits for the Victor.
[7:40] ***SD***: That sounds more like an insecurity issuee
[7:40] Zealot Benmergui: Master-hunters are always difficult, and happens a great deal in club settings
[7:41] ***AK***: In the end Dom A will end up with sub D, the quiet one not causeing Dramalama
[7:41] Zealot Benmergui: submissives will often try to talk down other couples..and the submissive who has been telling you your master is a weakkneed momma's boy today will be the one kneeling you him calling him her masterful soulmate as soon as you break up
[7:41] ***VS***: ahh
[7:41] ***TD***: So openess you say is key, but what if you get one of those D'd who has had a few bad breaks and thier old subs get agressive with you cause you are with him send you note after note?
[7:42] ***TD***: *D's
[7:42] Zealot Benmergui: ideally A, but often the quiet, non dramatic Sub D is ignored and sits along in the corner until she leaves to play Hello Kitty Online and masterbate to old New Kids on the Block videos
[7:42] ***VS***: mm, no, in my case, it is Dom A who's always complaining to me and *his* sub b who thinks I 'm why he's not marrying her or something
[7:42] ***RV***: i would think that would be the dom's responsibility to fix, ***TD***
[7:42] ***VS***: she sends me notes
[7:42] Zealot Benmergui: or worse, except the first collar she can get from MasterDave Masterton the Serious Strict Dominant RAWR
[7:42] Zealot Benmergui: *accept
[7:43] Zealot Benmergui: YOu need to tell the Dom to leave you out of it, Miss ***VS***
[7:43] ***TD*** agrees
[7:43] Zealot Benmergui: You can be his friend, but you don;t want to be catspaw in the situation
[7:44] ***VS***: no I don't
[7:44] Zealot Benmergui: a good way to resolve it is send the girl complete notecards of your conversations with him
[7:44] ***TD*** pouts at Sir Z
[7:44] ***RV***: umm ... even if he's complaining about her?
[7:44] Zealot Benmergui: if you are then getting blamed for it, yes
[7:45] ***VS***: she's break up with him instatnly and I'm sure that;s just what he'd like -- but, I won;t be used that way, but, Ihear what you are saying -- sorry, maybe this is too specific a situation
[7:45] Zealot Benmergui: being Dominant is not an "I can be a shit for free"card
[7:45] ***TD*** nods
[7:45] ***AK***: I mentor many subs asking me to speak with there Doms or dish out advice, is it wise to give options or would clear instructions be more appropriate eg, 1, relax talk to him find out why he thinks your a slut 2, fucking ditch the prick if he dont trust you he aint worth it.
[7:45] ***TD***: no sub needs to be shitted upon
[7:46] ***AK***: SCAT RULES
[7:46] Zealot Benmergui: Easy there A
[7:47] Zealot Benmergui: How many of you are still in contact with your Exes?
[7:47] ***RV*** raises her hand
[7:47] ***TD***: raise tail
[7:47] ***AK***: Muted
[7:48] Zealot Benmergui: and do you discuss current relationships with them?
[7:48] ***RV***: nods
[7:48] Zealot Benmergui: Well that was part of the terms of the restraining order, A
[7:48] ***RV***: frequently
[7:48] ***SD***: I am often
[7:48] ***TD***: If I were in one yes, but we do talk about thiers *nods*
[7:49] Zealot Benmergui: Good results, bad results?
[7:49] ***SD***: Very good
[7:49] ***RV***: almost always good
[7:49] ***TD***: always neutral so I would say it is all good
[7:49] Zealot Benmergui: any awkward moments?
[7:50] Zealot Benmergui: as in "Hey, you never did that to ME...."
[7:50] ***SD***: Maybe at first, but no more
[7:50] ***RV***: yeah ... for me, definitely
[7:50] ***TD*** giggles 'always when you really want to scratch thier eyes out'
[7:50] ***RV***: if the split is amicable, and you still care deeply for someone, it can be hard sometimes ... but almost always worth it
[7:51] ***SD***: I am very good friends with ex and we are closer now that we are only friends
[7:51] Zealot Benmergui: Any advice on how to manage ex Masters?
[7:51] Zealot Benmergui: Beyond "With a 9 Iron""
[7:51] ***TD***: long pointy sticks?
[7:51] ***TD***: damn!
[7:52] ***SD***: start*
[7:52] ***SD***: call a truce and star a new relationship and let old wounds heal.
[7:52] ***TD*** agrees with ***SD***
[7:52] ***MM***: pretty much the same as friends but remind them their role has changed
[7:52] Zealot Benmergui: It is always a good idea to draw a line, to establish that whatever you are going tobe, you won;t be what you were..the past is past
[7:53] ***SD***: you have to forgive. you may not forget, but forgive is easy
[7:53] Melodie Larkham is Offline
[7:53] Zealot Benmergui: wow...that was a very curvy linebacker
[7:53] ***MM***: LOL
[7:53] ***AK***: lol
[7:53] Zealot Benmergui: usually they just just throw panties, they don;t bodycheck me
[7:54] ***RV***: exes can often be all the other roles as well ... mentors, protectors, friends
[7:54] ***AK***: not to mention a pain in the ass
[7:54] Zealot Benmergui: indeed...ideally that is the case ***RV***
[7:54] ***SD***: Indeed ***RV***
[7:54] Zealot Benmergui: and that is usually true too A
[7:54] Zealot Benmergui: it can certainly be delicate
[7:54] ***AK***: yes dont forget the phyco's they have a place too
[7:55] Zealot Benmergui: phyco?
[7:55] ***VS*** smiles
[7:55] ***AK***: the crazies
[7:55] ***AK***: cookoo
[7:55] ***AK***: dollaly
[7:55] Zealot Benmergui: ah yes...them
[7:56] Zealot Benmergui: those are a special case.,..and you have to be careful how much resource you spend on them, as they will often continue to "need"you for a long time
[7:56] ***MM*** sighs
[7:56] Zealot Benmergui: They could be a lecture in and of themselves
[7:56] Zealot Benmergui: in fact, they just may BE my next lecture
[7:56] Zealot Benmergui: or one of the next at least