Ho Ho Hos, slutty submissives - 12/25/08

[0:45] Zealot Benmergui: ok, first of all, Merry Christmas, or whatever you may be celebrating
[0:45] Zealot Benmergui: Welcome A/all to the House of V’s College of Kink. My name is Zealot Benmergui, Baron BardHaven and I will be your host today. Some of you may know me from lecturing here at House of V and other locations around the grid. Others of you may know me from my recent job as Guest Santa and Horsey Toy at the Christmas party at St. Agatha’s Home for Unwed Mothers Who Haven’t Learned Their Damn Lesson.
[0:45] ***LM***: happy Xmass A/all
[0:45] ***MM***: /smiles
[0:45] ***MM***: and Happy Hanukkah
[0:46] Zealot Benmergui: The topic for today is "Ho Ho Hos, slutty submissives”. Today we will look at the term and concept behind Slut. Please note that for the purpose of clarity, I will tend to use “she” to refer to a submissive and “he” to refer to a Dominant, but either can be of any gender. Your humble lecturer WILL accept tips, but they must be paid to me directly, if you are so inclined, thank you.
[0:46] Zealot Benmergui: The word Slut is something on an enigma...in the mainstream there are few more concussive insults for a woman, but ion the D/s or fetish community, few words of high praise.
[0:47] Zealot Benmergui: This is all the more curious when one looks at the entymology and history of the word
[0:47] Zealot Benmergui: The word was originally Middle English, first seen in around 1400, as slutte
[0:48] Zealot Benmergui: which meant a dirty, untidy, or slovenly woman
[0:48] Zealot Benmergui: no sex involved
[0:48] Zealot Benmergui: it was used by Chaucer, as sluttish, but then was used to describe a slovenly man
[0:48] Zealot Benmergui: however, almost all later usages were for women
[0:49] Zealot Benmergui: some good examples of the usage can be found in Samuel Pepys famous diary, written in the 1660s. He describes a favorite serving girl as an admirable slut" who "pleases us mightily, doing more service than both the others and deserves wages better
[0:49] ***RV***: mmm services
[0:50] Zealot Benmergui: well sure
[0:50] Zealot Benmergui: noi definition of what he meant by services
[0:50] ***RV***: lol
[0:51] Zealot Benmergui: from Middle English it leapt into all the main languages that were similar, such as German, Dutch and Swedish...usually as slutte or slute, meaing a dirty or messy woman
[0:51] Zealot Benmergui: in Yiddish, is got a new twist, becoming akhsluttishkha. meaning an old hag
[0:52] Zealot Benmergui: SOme linguists also feel that the word Slut in German originally meant a mud puddle...but I am not sold on that one
[0:52] Zealot Benmergui: Even as late as the mid 1800s, no sex was invoved in being a slut.
[0:53] Zealot Benmergui: in fact, there was a scandal in London in the 1860s about messy streets, demanding that the city pay cleaners to "rake out the sluts-holes"
[0:53] Zealot Benmergui: theses days, the cleaners would pay the city for 45 minutes of raking
[0:54] Zealot Benmergui: by the early 1900s, the term slut has switched tomean a promiscuous, not dirty woman
[0:54] Zealot Benmergui: you could still be a dirty slut, but it was not required
[0:54] Zealot Benmergui: some sluts are quite clean
[0:54] ***MM*** laughs
[0:54] ***RV***: lol
[0:55] ***SS***: There is still use of the term slut to this day as describing a Dirty woman.
[0:55] ***SS***: new England area, Maine especially
[0:55] Zealot Benmergui: However, by the 1960s there was already a movement to reclain the words...in a famolus newspaper piece in 1963, Katherine Graham invoke a massive response by writing...Have you ever taken anything out of the dirty-clothes basket because it had become, relatively, the cleaner thing? Changed stockings in a taxi? Could you try on clothes in any shop, any time, without worrying about your underclothes? How many things are in the wrong room—cups in the study, boots in the kitchen? ... [this makes] you one of us: the miserable, optimistic, misunderstood race of sluts."
[0:56] Zealot Benmergui: nods..there are always old usages floating around, Sri
[0:56] Zealot Benmergui: by the 1970s and 80s, there was now a desire to turn the word slut into a mark of pride, indicating a woman who was sex positive, with no hang ups about her sexuality
[0:57] Zealot Benmergui: until we have found ourselves here, with the term slut being a term of affection and praise in BDSM circles...but we often don;t know exactly what it means...
[0:57] Zealot Benmergui: on the surface, it means promiscuous...but what else does it mean to all of you?
[0:57] ***MM***: not repressed about sexuality
[0:58] Zealot Benmergui: nods...certainly
[0:58] ***SS***: Someone who enjoy sex
[0:58] ***DK***: hot / fun/ naughty
[0:58] Zealot Benmergui: absolutely...there is a sense of joy in the way we use slut now
[0:58] Zealot Benmergui: also a certain sense of humor
[0:59] Zealot Benmergui: we have the underlaying knowledge that an outsider would be shocked to hear it used that way
[0:59] Zealot Benmergui: most people's mothers would be shocked and horrified to see you happy to be called a slut...
[0:59] Zealot Benmergui: I knowmine was
[0:59] ***RV***: lmao
[0:59] ***MM*** smiles
[0:59] Zealot Benmergui: especially since it was father doing the talking
[1:00] Andreas Kleene: HAWT
[1:00] ***SS***: I know some people see slut like they see stud.
[1:00] Zealot Benmergui: A..you bitch, alimony is late again you bum
[1:00] Zealot Benmergui: your children wil starve
[1:00] ***MM*** laughs
[1:01] Zealot Benmergui: hmm..are stud and slut synonomous?
[1:01] Zealot Benmergui: Stud for me is always a somewhat mocking term, like something used in an old spice ad, right before the sailor hucks the bottle at somebody
[1:01] ***MM***: rofl
[1:01] Andreas Kleene: Ill pay you with tips Z, sorry for being late
[1:01] Zealot Benmergui: I forgive you honey
[1:02] ***MM*** moans
[1:02] Zealot Benmergui kisses A lightly...Ï'm sorry I was grumpy velvetbutt, I hate the holidays"
[1:02] Zealot Benmergui: kisskiss
[1:02] ***RV*** giggles
[1:02] ***MM*** moans louder
[1:02] Zealot Benmergui: SO what is the feeling, is a stud a fenmale slut?
[1:02] Zealot Benmergui: *male
[1:03] ***MM***: no
[1:03] ***MM***: but maybe in the vanilla sense it means that
[1:03] Zealot Benmergui: gentlemen, would you be happy to be called a stud?
[1:03] ***PM***: Stud, yes. ManWhore, not-so-much
[1:04] ***DA***: In the vanilla sense it doesn't mean that. Stud associates with conquest. Slut, vanilla, is indiscriminate
[1:04] Zealot Benmergui: well, lets rephrase that..ladies, would you be happy to have the man you are with called a stud?
[1:04] ***RV***: not me
[1:04] ***DK***: nope
[1:04] ***MM*** shurgs
[1:04] Zealot Benmergui: true Mr. Muggins..Stud suggests a certain skill..manwhore indicates you will fuck anything
[1:04] ***MM***: slut and whore seem to be interchangable amongst my very vanilla friends
[1:05] ***SS***: Sure, because they aren't getting sex from me anyways :P
[1:05] Zealot Benmergui: nods...I agree Mali, but slut is a bit more active then whore
[1:05] ***DA***: I agree with ***MM*** but then a whore gets paid
[1:05] Zealot Benmergui: a whore will fuck anyone, a slut goes out and finds anyone, then fucks them
[1:05] ***VS*** mm, it seems kind of, '70s
[1:05] ***DK***: not just anyone
[1:05] ***MM***: well correct me if I'm wrong here Master, but we are talking about the slang usage not the dictionary correct?
[1:05] ***DA***: A whore gets paid, a slut goes home with whoever is still in the bar at 3am (vanilla)
[1:05] Zealot Benmergui: correct
[1:06] ***MM***: I'm quite sure it varies based on where you are
[1:06] Zealot Benmergui: and yes, we are discussing the vanilla view of it for a moment
[1:06] ***MM***: in Omaha a woman that swallows is a whore....*laughs*
[1:06] ***DK***: lol
[1:06] ***RV***: mmmm swallows
[1:07] ***OB***: packs bags for Omaha...
[1:07] ***SS***: I thought a woman who swallows in omaha was $50
[1:07] Zealot Benmergui: so if a slut to the mainstream is a promiscuous woman, possibly dirty, sexually loose....
[1:07] Zealot Benmergui: and to the fetish community is a woman who enjoys sex and does not have issues about her sexuality....
[1:07] ***LM***: then me is a Wwhore
[1:07] ***LM***: :-P
[1:08] Zealot Benmergui: what does this disconnect tells us abotu the ways that the mainstream and fetish words differ about sex and the role of women therein?
[1:08] ***SS***: vanillas are closed off and repressed, unable to free their inner slut?
[1:08] ***MM***: well....
[1:08] ***MM***: to an extent...there's always a double standard
[1:09] ***VS*** mmm, not really
[1:09] ***MM***: even vanilla guys want to fuck the "slut"...although they may criticise her
[1:09] Zealot Benmergui: I have known lots of vanilla women who would kick my ass if I called them a slut, but who were certainly not repressed in the bedroom...
[1:09] ***VS*** exactly
[1:10] ***OB***: zealot...call them a slut in the bedroom...and a lady in public..less asskicking then
[1:10] Zealot Benmergui: absolutely Mali, look at HS...the class slut was mocked and pointed at...but all the boys still wanted her
[1:10] Andreas Kleene is Offline
[1:10] Zealot Benmergui writes that down..See I had it reversed
[1:10] ***MM***: so it's not OPENLY a cherished attribute...but cherished nonetheless
[1:10] Zealot Benmergui: passes the pad to Mali...Keep this for me, slut
[1:10] ***MM*** smiles
[1:10] ***MM***: yes Master
[1:11] Zealot Benmergui: cherished is a difficult concept..often the boys wanted to fuck her, but still thought as little of her as the other girls...
[1:11] ***MM***: true
[1:12] Zealot Benmergui: I think that is the most important change in our use of the word slut
[1:12] ***MM***: but I'm not sure that's not also true of many in the d/s community as well Master
[1:12] Zealot Benmergui: in that it has become a term of self esteem, and acceptance of something with ideally, they should accept as their birthright
[1:12] Zealot Benmergui: to revel in the way the express their sexuality
[1:12] ***OB***: isnt that the perfect vanilla woman..slut whore in the bedroom....but prim and proper outside,,
[1:12] ***FG***: lol
[1:13] Zealot Benmergui: damn...reversed it again
[1:13] ***OB***: and in a more real relationship...the slut is a slut at all times
[1:13] ***MM***: heh to me you're describing what the average common lifestyler expects
[1:13] ***OB***: true,,
[1:13] ***TS***: Welcome back Sir!
[1:14] Zealot Benmergui: well lets back up then again
[1:14] Zealot Benmergui: is being a slut a description of action, or a state of mind?
[1:14] Zealot Benmergui: can you be a virginal slut?
[1:14] ***RV***: yes
[1:14] ***MM***: both or either
[1:14] ***VS*** absolutely
[1:14] ***OB***: oh yes...
[1:14] ***RV***: state of mind, imo
[1:14] ***VS*** but -- it will not stay that way too long
[1:15] ***OB***: state of mind...not a state of vag
[1:15] ***MM***: wb A
[1:15] ***OB***: look at the puroty crowd..
[1:16] ***OB***: assfucking instead to stay a virgin..lol
[1:16] Zealot Benmergui is Offline
[1:16] ***OB***: thats pretty crazy.....
[1:16] ***RV***: oops, Z crashed
[1:16] ***MM*** raises an eyebrow
[1:17] ***MM*** is Offline
[1:18] ***MM*** is Online
[1:18] ***OB***: laughs...i was enjoying todays subject,,,,to slut or not to slut that is the question..lol
[1:18] ***RV***: wb Mali
[1:18] ***MM***: ty wife
[1:19] ***MM***: A can you rebake please?
[1:19] ***RV***: wb Z
[1:19] ***LM***: welcome back Z Sir
[1:20] ***MM***: wb Master
[1:20] Zealot Benmergui: ouch
[1:20] Zealot Benmergui: which one of you sluts crashed me?
[1:21] ***MM*** points at Rowan
[1:21] ***RV*** points at Andreas
[1:21] ***RV***: rofl
[1:21] ***LM***: maybe it was this girls lollipop Sir?
[1:21] Zealot Benmergui: that's it, all three of you get spankies tonight
[1:21] Zealot Benmergui: and the lollipop too
[1:21] ***MM*** claps gleefully
[1:21] Zealot Benmergui: nonw then..I had asked if one could be a virginal slut
[1:21] ***LM***: yummy
[1:21] ***RV***: yay~
[1:22] ***RV***: and we agreed that one could
[1:22] Zealot Benmergui: ok...how?
[1:22] ***RV***: well, imo it's a state of mind and not a reflection of action
[1:23] Zealot Benmergui: nods...in the fetish definition I completely agree
[1:23] Zealot Benmergui: for the mainstream, vatican 2 absolved women who just think about sex a lot from being sluts
[1:23] ***DA***: Thank God for that
[1:24] Zealot Benmergui: no, that Paul XVI actually
[1:24] Zealot Benmergui: but hey, it events out
[1:24] Zealot Benmergui: *evens
[1:24] Zealot Benmergui: I need to do a lecture on Fun with Popes sometime
[1:24] Zealot Benmergui: anyway, going on
[1:25] ***rB***: lol
[1:25] Zealot Benmergui: I think this deviation of meaning really stresses the different ways that mainstream and fetish view the term
[1:25] ***LM***: what if one is a furry and thinks about sex all the time and does it a lot? :-P
[1:25] Zealot Benmergui: to the mainstream, a slut requires action...grab that cock and slut it up
[1:25] ***MM***: mmm cock
[1:26] ***RV***: mmm cock
[1:26] Zealot Benmergui: then you're in heat Miss ***LM***, totally different
[1:26] Zealot Benmergui: to the fetish community, being a slut is a state of mind, a way of thinking of yourself and yoru sexuality, without boundaries
[1:26] ***LM*** giggles
[1:27] Zealot Benmergui: I also feel that is why in the fetish community slut is viewed as a possitive, affectionate term
[1:27] Zealot Benmergui: another question...to those of us in the lifestyle...would you call a woman you do not know or are not comfortable with a slut?
[1:27] ***rB***: like can u call them as my dear slut in the fetish community
[1:27] ***RV***: i wouldn't
[1:28] Zealot Benmergui: absolutely Mr. ***rB***
[1:28] ***RV***: but i use it as a pet name ... i wouldn
[1:28] ***LM***: i call them sister
[1:28] ***RV***: *wouldn't call someone dear or honey or sweetheart if i wasn't comfortable with them either
[1:28] Zealot Benmergui: exactly Ro
[1:28] ***VS*** it's probably wise not to, until you know what *they mean by it
[1:28] ***rB***: out of anger a women who does not come with u but goes with other guys is often called a slut by that left out guy
[1:29] Zealot Benmergui: in the community, slut in a somewhat intimate term...it requires a connection in many cases
[1:29] ***MM***: there's still a double standard in the community though Master
[1:29] Zealot Benmergui: that Mr. ***rB*** is mainly reverting to mainstream usage
[1:29] ***rB***: yup
[1:29] Zealot Benmergui: explain what you mean, love?
[1:30] ***rB***: me?
[1:30] ***RV*** giggles
[1:30] Zealot Benmergui: no, I would call you snookums
[1:30] ***MM***: I mean that same vanilla double standard of looking negatively at women who are sexually open still exists in the lifestyle, it may not be as noticable
[1:30] ***rB***: lol
[1:30] Zealot Benmergui: nods...yes, it does exist, but the bar is set much higher
[1:31] Zealot Benmergui: in the mainstream, a woman who fucks two men in one week, or two men at once is often called a slut
[1:31] ***RV***: (brb)
[1:31] Zealot Benmergui: in the mainstream, it requires more like 2 in an hour, and the two men at once have to be brothers
[1:31] ***MM*** laughs
[1:31] Zealot Benmergui: in the fetish coimmunity, that is
[1:32] ***LM***: what if one is a gril and one is a man? :-P
[1:32] Zealot Benmergui: and even then in the mainstream it is said almost jealously
[1:32] Zealot Benmergui: mmm grils
[1:32] Zealot Benmergui: that's ok then Miss ***LM***
[1:33] Zealot Benmergui: but you are right Mali, there is still a double standard
[1:33] Zealot Benmergui: and as Mr/ ***rB*** said, slut is often used as a way to strike out at someone who overlooked you
[1:33] ***MM***: but I think it's really part of the whole dogmatic definition driven ridgidness that permeates the d/s community
[1:33] Zealot Benmergui: nods
[1:33] Zealot Benmergui: there is a strong desire to label everyone
[1:34] Zealot Benmergui: Hi, my name is Dan and I am a Dominant Hetero who prefers penetration and light bondage with occasional anal and suspension. Drink?
[1:35] ***MM*** laughs
[1:35] ***rB***: lol
[1:35] ***LM*** puts up hand
[1:35] Zealot Benmergui: yes Miss ***LM***
[1:35] ***LM***: me
[1:35] ***LM***: lol
[1:36] ***rB***: lol miss ***LM*** wants that drink i guess...lol
[1:36] Zealot Benmergui: Everytime I say that I have to fight down an urge to aske you if Mohammad came
[1:36] ***LM***: lol
[1:36] Zealot Benmergui: So we have talked alot of about the term slut...but what about men?
[1:36] ***LM*** puts hand over hir mouth
[1:36] Zealot Benmergui: is there an equivilant term for men?
[1:37] ***LM***: jigalow
[1:37] ***MM*** laughs
[1:37] ***MM***: asshole?
[1:37] ***VS*** Rake
[1:37] ***rB***: a jiggolo
[1:37] Zealot Benmergui: ooo..I like Rake
[1:37] ***VS*** smiles
[1:37] ***SS***: slobber monster
[1:37] Zealot Benmergui: Swain is also nice
[1:37] ***VS*** yumm
[1:37] Zealot Benmergui: Cad or Bounder if you are a bit irresponsible concerning women
[1:38] ***MM***: sl seems to use manwhore alot
[1:38] Zealot Benmergui: Lothario perhaps
[1:38] ***RV***: personally i don't think slut necessarily denotes a woman
[1:38] ***RV***: i'd use it for a man, and often do
[1:38] Zealot Benmergui: It is common Mali, but also utterly derogative, or at best dismissive
[1:39] Zealot Benmergui: well, as you can see in my profile, I embrace the term slut for myself
[1:39] Zealot Benmergui: so I do feel it does double duty, but with men the meaning is a bit different
[1:40] Zealot Benmergui: mostly because we so associate it with women
[1:40] ***rB***: whats it with men?
[1:41] Zealot Benmergui: with men it take on an sort of playful quality
[1:41] Zealot Benmergui: as if it is always said a bit tongue in cheek
[1:42] ***RV***: i think with men in the lifestyle, the difference is that there is basically no negative connotation
[1:42] Zealot Benmergui: nodes
[1:42] Zealot Benmergui: men are expected to be sluts
[1:43] ***rB***: all men are dogs they say
[1:43] Zealot Benmergui: that is also why I feel there is little cause for male escorts in SL...a woman wants casual sex, she walks into any club and says "I want casual sex"
[1:43] ***RV***: hehe
[1:43] ***TS***: Sorry for interupting Sir Zealot, but RL calls. Thank You for the class and Merry Christmas!
[1:43] Zealot Benmergui: and to you Miss ***TS***..always nice to see you
[1:44] Zealot Benmergui: and with that we are rounding up the discussion at any rate
[1:44] ***LM***: happy Xmass
[1:44] ***TS*** smiles and waves
[1:44] ***rB***: happy xmas to everyone
[1:44] Zealot Benmergui: please remember I do accept tips paid directly to me, and that way you an do your part in helping me feed the three prim babies Andreas lumbered me with
[1:45] Zealot Benmergui: next lecture will be MOnday at 7 AM SLT, on the topic of Submissives and Self-Punishment