[0:34] ***MM***: mmm flogging
[0:34] ***AM*** mutes herself.
[0:34] ***AM*** leaves and returns late.
[0:34] ***SS***: Awwww. Can't I bleed them dry while your lil mischief monkies root through their pockets?
[0:35] ***MM*** sighs
[0:35] ***SA***: who's a mischief monkey?
[0:35] Zealot Benmergui: I have monkeys? No one told me...
[0:36] ***MM***: mmm banana
[0:36] Zealot Benmergui: All this time I have actually been buying food, when I have livestock
[0:36] ***OE***: never know what the demons may bring Zealot
[0:36] Zealot Benmergui: Welcome A/all to the House of V’s College of Kink. My name is Zealot Benmergui, Baron BardHaven and I will be your host today. Some of you may know me from lecturing here at House of V and other locations around the grid. Others of you may know me as Andreas Kleene bitter ex-husband, who will never let a man hurt me the way that bastard did EVER again.
[0:36] ***MM***: LOL
[0:36] ***AM*** snorts
[0:36] Zealot Benmergui: Ummm...*coughs*
[0:36] Zealot Benmergui: Going on
[0:37] ***AM***: Ai
[0:37] Zealot Benmergui: The topic for today is "Between a Rock and a Hard Place: Hard Limits in SL”. Today we will look at how hard Limits work in an online environment. Please note that for the purpose of clarity, I will tend to use “she” to refer to a submissive and “he” to refer to a Dominant, but either can be of any gender. Your humble lecturer WILL accept tips, but they must be paid to me directly, if you are so inclined, thank you.
[0:37] ***AM***: Grab a poseball, sugar.
[0:37] ***AS*** nods
[0:37] Zealot Benmergui: Due to the nature of the topic, today will be less me gabbing on, and more of an open discussion, as Hard Limits are an extreamely personal and subjective topic
[0:37] ***RS***: abs..........you brought me here to listen to a fuckin lecture on bdsm? Really?
[0:38] Zealot Benmergui: However, some defintions are helpful...
[0:38] ***RS***: Ciao peoples.
[0:38] Zealot Benmergui: I was going to talk about Hannah Montana, but I lost my copy of Tiger Beat with the groovy interview.
[0:38] ***AM***: Night Ry
[0:38] ***MM***: take care
[0:38] ***RS***: /ao on
[0:39] Zealot Benmergui: Doesn;t he dig Hannah?
[0:39] ***NN***: i would dig hannah montana, repeatedly, in the face
[0:40] ***AM***: lol Sir
[0:40] Zealot Benmergui: OK, moving on
[0:40] Zealot Benmergui: Hard Limits, in the most basic form, are simply things that a person will not due for any number of possible reasons
[0:41] Zealot Benmergui: Either due to personal preference, history, or real life situations, they are lines they will not cross.
[0:42] Zealot Benmergui: These usually tend to be Real World limits, that filter their way into SL or online encounters...but they may not always be consistant...
[0:42] Zealot Benmergui: For me, there are three kinds of Hard Limits, eacjh which must be approached a little differently
[0:43] Zealot Benmergui: There are the standard "Cultural Hard Limits" that you will find most people you speak to consider to be off limits....Scat for example, ageplay for some, more extreme forms of bondages/masochism for others
[0:44] Zealot Benmergui: These are usually a standard, somewhat generic list of whatever the "big bads" are at the time
[0:45] Zealot Benmergui: The second form of Hard Limits, in my opinion, are "Testing Limits"...limits that are not based on knwoledge so much as a lack there of
[0:45] Zealot Benmergui: Such as..."Will not have sex with goats"
[0:45] Zealot Benmergui: They only say this since they have never HAD sex with a goat
[0:45] ***MM***: what??????
[0:45] Seatyn Magic: mmm goats
[0:45] ***AM***: I would totally bang a goat if he was hot.
[0:45] ***MM***: awww the poor goat needs love too
[0:45] ***SA*** loves goats
[0:45] Zealot Benmergui: I know, some people are anti-goat..hard to fathom but it's true
[0:45] ***OE***: its true ppl
[0:45] Seatyn Magic: a goat is having my prim baby
[0:46] ***AS***: hence the saying don't knock it till you try it
[0:46] ***AM***: Rowan!
[0:46] ***NN***: my llama girlfriend would be very upset
[0:46] ***SA***: ROWROW!
[0:46] ***MM*** quietly molests rowan
[0:46] ***AM***: I adore llamas
[0:46] Zealot Benmergui: By and large, wether or not livestock is involved, these limits can be explored, and often someone wishes them to be....they are not true Hard Limits, just lack of experience or a feeling that something just won't be to their liking
[0:46] ***AM***: I almost just told oyu something I shouldn't. O.o
[0:46] ***AM***: you*
[0:46] ***SA*** pokes rowrow in da bewbs
[0:46] Seatyn Magic: its the RowSTER
[0:47] ***RV*** quietly cums
[0:47] Zealot Benmergui: And we will have time later on for everyone to name their land mammal of choice...so keep it down for the moment
[0:47] ***AM*** races Mali to lick it up
[0:47] ***MM***: shhh
[0:47] ***MM***: behave
[0:47] ***AM***: :D
[0:47] Zealot Benmergui: The last kind of hard limit are for me the ones of greatest importance...these are the true limits based on the person's history or experience.
[0:48] Zealot Benmergui: I would not be stating anything we don;t all know if I told you that the vast majority of subs, and even Doms online have had some kind of trauma or situation in their history that has drawn them towards D/s
[0:49] Zealot Benmergui: Such things also tend to make for hard Limits..some which would seem obvious...some which are more arcane
[0:50] Zealot Benmergui: The challange to any Dom, or to anyone who runs into another person's hard limits, is to gauge which limits are there due to ignorance, which due to nervousness, and which are serious limits which will cause damage if breeched.
[0:51] Zealot Benmergui: In order to discuss that challange, lets look at the subs relationship to hard limits...
[0:51] Zealot Benmergui: Is a submissive always aware of their limits?
[0:51] ***OE***: no
[0:51] ***SS***: No, they are not
[0:51] ***MM***: nope
[0:51] Zealot Benmergui: no, often they will come as a surprise even to them
[0:52] ***YS*** nods.
[0:52] Zealot Benmergui: you willbe in a scene, and suddenly find the ground is very very different then either of you expected
[0:53] Zealot Benmergui: Hard limits which are not known in advance need to be handled very very carefully, since it is possible the sub won;t even know why it is there, or be willing to discuss it...she is just aware of the reaction
[0:54] Zealot Benmergui: What abouts limits a sub is aware of?
[0:54] Zealot Benmergui: How should a sub relate to those, especially with a new partner?
[0:54] ***SS***: Some might actually not be limits and they are not aware of it
[0:54] ***AM***: bdsm checklist ftw
[0:54] ***OE***: bascially what she may have experienced .. or fear of .. ect
[0:55] ***OE***: or what i call the ewww list.. like scat
[0:55] Zealot Benmergui: nods...all three of those points are accurate, and therefore they need to be discussed upfront in any serious relationship
[0:55] ***AS***: a limit may come from a previous "bad" expirence from a former master/mistress
[0:55] Zealot Benmergui: I am not saying you need to give your full set oif kinks and limits to some guy in a hot outfit you fuck ata aclub, if that is your wont...
[0:56] ***AM*** grins.
[0:56] Zealot Benmergui: but if it is to be a relationship, it is always a good idea to set limits, and if possible, explain why
[0:56] Zealot Benmergui: even if the why is "none of your business, now lay down
[0:56] ***OE***: gauges each party
[0:56] ***MM*** laughs
[0:57] Zealot Benmergui: A Dom needfs information to work with
[0:57] ***OE***: assesment crucial.. can only be known if talked and set
[0:57] ***OE***: <
[0:57] Seatyn Magic: mmm penis
[0:57] ***MM***: mm glands
[0:57] ***YS*** chuckles.
[0:57] ***AM*** blinks
[0:58] Seatyn Magic: oh hang on..can i take that back
[0:58] ***AM*** snickers.
[0:58] Zealot Benmergui: Therefore, it is vitally important you explain your limits, even if you are somewhat shy about them
[0:58] ***AM*** quotes.
[0:58] Zealot Benmergui: based on those, it is also possible an experienced Dom will be able to anticpate what other limits may be there that the sub is not aware of
[0:59] Zealot Benmergui: since by and large, a sub only knows a limit they have actually run into
[0:59] ***OE***: yes
[0:59] Zealot Benmergui: if they have never had a man anally penetrate them with a frozen confection, they won;t KNOW that they have a hard limit to grape flavored sorbet up their ass
[0:59] ***SS***: Yes, especially if a well designed play form is used
[0:59] ***OE***: *perks*
[1:00] ***AM*** clenches, thinking fondly of confections in her ass.
[1:00] Zealot Benmergui: Therefore, being honest about your limits can also be an educational experience, as a good Dom may then be able to discover other limits you have, and tal them out with you
[1:01] Zealot Benmergui: also, he may be able to ease you through those wchih are not true limits, such as kinks you are just nervous about.
[1:02] Zealot Benmergui: Remember that part of the reason many people who have had bad experiences in the past are drawn to D/s is to have the chance to work through some of these issues in a secure, loving situation
[1:03] Zealot Benmergui: OK, so that is how a sub cabn deal with Hard Limits..what about a Dom..how should he respond when encountering a hard Limit?
[1:03] ***SS***: reassure, and help the sub understand why there is a limit there
[1:03] ***AM***: Stop, listen, deal.
[1:04] ***MM*** nods at Abs
[1:04] ***MM***: and be prepared to stop all together if necessary
[1:04] ***AM***: yep
[1:04] Zealot Benmergui: nods...I would say stop altogether is the first step
[1:04] Zealot Benmergui: just back completely away from the limit
[1:04] Zealot Benmergui: until you can work out why it exists
[1:04] ***AM*** nods
[1:04] Zealot Benmergui: and what it's nature is
[1:05] ***MM***: well I mean stop everything if necessary...although it could be an overreaction that will just make her feel worse
[1:05] Zealot Benmergui: since if it is a limit caused by some previous trauma, and you push at it, cajoling them, intimidating, you could be causing a massive amount of damage even if she appears to "consent" at that moment
[1:05] ***SS***: If you come across one accidentally and they safeword, play should stop IMMEDIIATELY and aftercare started, as that can quite easily shred a person from subspace
[1:06] Zealot Benmergui: nods to Mali...well, I don;t mean drop it as in "OHMYGOD ARE YOU ALRIGHT!!!! I didn;lt mean to mentally scar you for life.....OH GOD...TRAUMA THERAPIST, IS THERE A TRAUMA THERAPIST IN THE DUNGEON?????
[1:07] ***MM*** smiles
[1:07] Zealot Benmergui: more like...being aware of it and steering away
[1:07] ***AM*** holds up Mr. Hanky. "Here, Sir!"
[1:07] ***MM***: of course Master
[1:07] Zealot Benmergui: just not continuing on that course in any way
[1:07] ***MM***: although I agree with Sri IF there is a safeword used, which should be rather rare
[1:07] Zealot Benmergui: if they panic that you are touching their anus, it is not a good time to say "but your sister LOVES it when I fuck her up the ass...maybe just try a little?"
[1:07] ***SS***: If you come across a hard limit in play, there damn well better be a safeword used
[1:08] ***MM***: LOL
[1:08] ***MS*** laughs
[1:08] ***SS***: THAT is part of the reason one is in place
[1:08] ***AM***: Just the tip!
[1:08] Zealot Benmergui: sometimes safewords don;t come into play...especially if the hard limit was not known in advance
[1:08] ***OE***: ::smiles::
[1:08] ***MM*** has never invoked a safeword, ever
[1:08] Zealot Benmergui: safe words are great and useful in many cases, in other cases, the Dom just needs to be aware
[1:09] ***OE***: knowing the sub.. learned to map her..
[1:09] ***MM***: exactly
[1:09] ***OE***: like a finger print
[1:09] Zealot Benmergui: if she is normally very vocal, and you do something new and she goes quiet...find out why
[1:10] Zealot Benmergui: or the opposite...sometimes a girl will react to a limit by trying to force HERSELF past it
[1:10] ***OE***: imprinting* is a better choice of word
[1:10] ***MM*** agrees
[1:11] Zealot Benmergui: smiles..when you know a woman so well you could coin her into gold...then you will likely be able to sense when a limit is in play
[1:11] ***MM***: mmm gold
[1:11] ***OE***: ::smiles::
[1:11] Zealot Benmergui: however, most encounters online are not like that, which is where safe words come into play
[1:11] ***SS***: Kind of my point
[1:11] Zealot Benmergui: but if a limit is profound, and unexpected, a safeword may not be used...
[1:11] ***OE***: thats what is so hard
[1:12] Zealot Benmergui: I have always found that the best safeword for me is "STOP THAT YOU FUCKING FREAK>>>JESUS GET AWAY FROM ME",,,OR WORDS TO THAT EFFECT
[1:12] ***MM*** laughs
[1:12] ***SS***: A good Domme will do their best to sense. But a good sub will use that piece of safety built into every good, decent relationship
[1:13] ***MM*** laughs
[1:13] ***SS***: Zealot, that works good in a plain BDSM scene, but in a RP BDSM scene, that can just be damn good acting
[1:13] Zealot Benmergui: nods...true, but some good indecent subs either prefer to work without safewords due to their own kinks or style...or trust in the person they are with to keep them safe.
[1:13] ***OE***: the sub will have a shut down mode.. built in
[1:14] Zealot Benmergui: nods..of some kimd yess Miss ***OE***..hence noting changes
[1:14] Zealot Benmergui: and yes Sri, if ther role play is a brutal rape, you may not be able to sort the truth from the fiction
[1:14] Zealot Benmergui: that is why even in rp scenes, I like to keep an outrider open
[1:15] Zealot Benmergui: keep the girl in a seperete IM where you are not in character, or at least not in the rp
[1:15] ***AM*** nods.
[1:15] ***SS***: ((that is what this is for too))
[1:15] ***AM***: That's exactly how you do it. You always have a side area where you can be 'you', not your av.
[1:15] Zealot Benmergui: that way you can give rl instructions...or ask "are you ok"
[1:15] ***AM***: That can get lost though, Sri.
[1:16] Zealot Benmergui: nods..it is a matter of personal preference..and both methods can be used to deal with hard limits
[1:16] Zealot Benmergui: so beyond stopping what you are doing and switching gears, or if the reaction is severe, stopping eveyrthing..what comes next?
[1:16] ***SS***: I've found the opposite in my experience. They can get so narrow focused on local chat they forget to even look and see there is an IM
[1:17] Zealot Benmergui: nods to Sri...again, you need to know the sub in question, and know what they need, even in terms of such logistics
[1:17] Zealot Benmergui: a Dominants work is never done
[1:18] Zealot Benmergui: ok, so you hit a limit....and have stopped...what should both sub amd Dom do next?
[1:19] ***MM***: definitely true irl
[1:19] ***AM***: evaluate
[1:19] Zealot Benmergui: nods...either immediately, or as part of after care/post coital canoodling...talk about it
[1:19] ***MM***: communicate, cuddle, encourage them to get help if necessary
[1:19] ***MS***: a hug, thats nice
[1:19] ***SS***: If they have come up against an accidental hard limit, one they were not aware of having, they should be helped to understand the limit itself. Maybe they just have a problem with the food coloring in a cherry freezie pop and can handle grape instead
[1:20] Zealot Benmergui: So, you really freaked out when I tried to shove the bicycle up your cunt...how come? Just crazy, or your time of the month?
[1:20] ***AM***: lol
[1:20] ***SS***: O.o
[1:20] ***OE***: crazy lol.
[1:20] Zealot Benmergui: first...opt for sheer comfort and tenderness
[1:20] ***AM*** graduates Zealot to the people who will never escape from her.
[1:21] Zealot Benmergui: often a sub will feel guilty for having said no, or embarassed
[1:21] Zealot Benmergui: before you do anything, you need to help her past that
[1:21] Zealot Benmergui: and subs need to let it go
[1:21] ***SS***: Aye, reassurance is key. They need to know you're not mad, hurt, or frustrated
[1:21] Zealot Benmergui: once any stigma is removed, you can move forward
[1:22] ***OE***: guilt come all to often for a sub under a Dominant
[1:22] Zealot Benmergui: so doms, don;t use phrases like "Wow, all my other girls love "takin the schwinn"
[1:22] ***MM***: yeah but they should also remember that Doms need aftercare as well and are likely to be just as freaked
[1:22] Zealot Benmergui: or "If you loved me, you would love my motocross fetish"
[1:22] ***OE***: nor disapproval tones
[1:22] ***SS***: Ahhhhh! Mali gets one point across
[1:23] Zealot Benmergui: a very good point Mali, most Doms will be worry they did something very bad, or broke you, or that you will think they are eveil, or just less respectable now
[1:23] ***MM*** ponders how such a thing could be possible in a discussion
[1:23] ***OE***: Dom's are human too
[1:23] ***MM*** nods at mesa
[1:24] ***SS*** beans mesa
[1:24] Zealot Benmergui: well. most Doms
[1:24] ***SS***: Some of us are vampires, silly girl
[1:24] ***OE***: the ones who are not.. bye bye
[1:24] ***AM***: ...
[1:24] Zealot Benmergui: no beaning, this is a family type sex club
[1:24] ***OE***: lol.
[1:25] ***OE***: never knew You to be vampirie
[1:25] ***OE***: hehe.
[1:25] Zealot Benmergui: and no dissing, thank you one and all, lest papp has to use the rocket launcher
[1:25] ***AM*** twitches.
[1:25] Zealot Benmergui: *pappa
[1:25] ***SS***: Oh, now you're just trying to make me wet Zealot
[1:25] ***AM***: Let me, Pappa. Please?
[1:25] Zealot Benmergui: So, once we have dealt with the guiolt and shock on both sides of the equation, the real work gets started
[1:25] Zealot Benmergui: and to be honest, one of the great strengths D/s has over more mainstream relationships
[1:26] Zealot Benmergui: NO Sri, that was why I brought upo the bicycle penetration...
[1:27] ***SS***: I don't have a bike fetish. I have an explosives fetish
[1:27] ***AM*** begins humming the Beatles to herself.
[1:27] Zealot Benmergui: once the traukma is a bit eased, you can begin discussing why the limit exists, how hard it truly is, and how it can be adressed, if it should be adressed at all
[1:27] Zealot Benmergui: some limits are best just to leave alone, or to professionals
[1:28] Zealot Benmergui: others, in fact most, can benefit from being discussed and explored
[1:28] Zealot Benmergui: but it requires a massive amount of care and communication
[1:29] Zealot Benmergui: which brings up the other question which both the Dom and sub have to ask at this time...but few will talk about
[1:29] Zealot Benmergui: they need to decide of such work is worthwhile
[1:29] ***YS*** nods.
[1:30] Zealot Benmergui: it requires a great amount of care and love and time to help someone deal with hard limits and deep trauama, it requires a terrfying amount of openess onthe parts of both sub and Dom
[1:30] ***SS***: THAT is a question easy to answer
[1:30] ***MS***: is it?
[1:30] ***MM***: nope
[1:30] ***RV***: um, nuh uh
[1:30] Zealot Benmergui: it may be that the Dom doesn;t feel capable or desirous of putting in the effort, it may be the sub really doesn;t want this Dom messing about with the trauma involved...perhaps no Dom.
[1:31] ***MM***: a Dom/me is a poor substitute for therapy...but there are now alot of kink friendly therapists
[1:31] Zealot Benmergui: Ofter times both Dom and sub will get in deep in a rush of emotion..and rapidly find themselves sinking without a paddle, tied to someone that was great for a few laughs, or that they like...but not that much.
[1:32] ***SS***: The work is always worthwhile. If it requires having the sub seek professional help, the Domme STILL has to help with things around and involving this, even just helping the sub deal with the shock of discovering something IN therapy
[1:32] Zealot Benmergui: nods...I admit there have been several situations in my time as a Dom and a master where I had to say "This is past my abilitiers, I am worried I am doing harm, you need professional help with this"
[1:33] Zealot Benmergui: indeed Sri...I am not saying either Dom or sub just walk away based on that, but it definetly changes the amount of reourse being used
[1:33] ***SS***: Even in this day and age, there is a stigma about "seeing a shrink"
[1:33] Zealot Benmergui: nods..absolutely
[1:33] Zealot Benmergui: they may very well needs the Doms support and encouragement to do so
[1:34] Zealot Benmergui: but that is amuch different then actually trying to do the heavy lifting for them
[1:34] ***SS***: I see it as all or nothing. Therapists, medication, just quiet cuddle time, they are some of my tools to help a sub understand and deal with hitting their hard limit
[1:35] Zealot Benmergui: In that we disagree..for me, nothing is every All or nothing
[1:35] ***MM***: your opinion of course is always right for each of you
[1:35] Zealot Benmergui: there are levels to everything...
[1:35] ***MM***: but not necessarily for anyone else
[1:36] ***AM***: Shades of grey
[1:36] Zealot Benmergui: if you are dealing with the produc tof deep childhood trauma, it may be that holding her hand is all you can really do...
[1:36] ***OE***: there are no shades of gray
[1:36] ***AM*** blinks
[1:37] Zealot Benmergui: if you are dealing with less profound situations, then the level is different, but you still need to decide if you are capable of dealing with it
[1:37] ***SS***: Yes, and if that is all you can do, there is no shade of grey. You hold the hand or you don't
[1:37] ***MM*** may need aftercare from this lecture
[1:37] ***RV*** is with Mali
[1:37] ***AM*** holds your breasts.
[1:37] ***MM*** moans
[1:37] ***MM***: thanks Abs!
[1:37] Zealot Benmergui: true, in that you are correct..consistency is the key
[1:37] ***AM***: always
[1:37] Zealot Benmergui: don't promise what you can;t do
[1:38] Zealot Benmergui: there is another factor that also has to be remember, as non-romantic as it sounds...
[1:38] Zealot Benmergui: TIME
[1:38] ***OE***: infact don't promise.. thats to final.. instead agree upon the possibillty
[1:38] Zealot Benmergui: do you have the time to adress this with them, as a Dom or a sub
[1:39] Zealot Benmergui: very true Miss ***OE***...the best you can promise is to try your best
[1:39] ***OE***: excately
[1:40] ***SS***: You should always have the time, or make the time. At least enough to help them not fall into a major subcrash or subdrop from the situation
[1:40] Zealot Benmergui: the long and short of it is that Hard Limits are NOT cut and dried..not just "I don;t fuck children, buffalo and I won;t shit on you...now get on the fucking poseball, stud"
[1:41] Zealot Benmergui: we are discussing two different things Sri
[1:41] Zealot Benmergui: in terms of heloping them recover from that scene,m I comopletely agree, don;t start what you can;t finish, no matter where that leads you
[1:42] Zealot Benmergui: but in terms of longer term..lets face it,m even in some D/s relationships, neither Dom or sub will have signed on for doing deep, dark work like that
[1:44] ***SS***: Ahhh. You reffer to bunker busters. Surprise limits that can break a relationship, usually due to the shock of running into them in the first place
[1:44] Zealot Benmergui: there needs to be an awareness that this has gone beyond fucking around online
[1:44] Zealot Benmergui: nods,,,or even known limits that suddenly take on relevence
[1:44] ***SS***: Aye
[1:45] Zealot Benmergui: there must be a way for both Dom and sub to opt out gracefully if they can;t deal with those issues at that time...
[1:46] Zealot Benmergui: it is one of those things we don;t like to admit...but face it
[1:46] ***OE***: safety net on both sides
[1:46] Zealot Benmergui: for 90 percent of the subs out there, the Dom they call the love of their life, their soul mate, whatever...is he REALLY someone they would feel safe putting their mental health in the hands of?
[1:47] ***OE***: nope
[1:47] Zealot Benmergui: He says his sub is His and a joy and how much he adores her..is he willing to hold her hand for a few months as she works through the trauma of a previous rape?
[1:47] Zealot Benmergui: or a few years
[1:47] ***MM***: well....they can both go to the kink friendly therapist
[1:47] ***OE***: nope
[1:47] ***OE***: online?
[1:47] ***OE***: no
[1:47] ***OE***: real perhaps
[1:47] ***MM***: but no matter how awesomesauce he is, he is not a substitute for a qualified professional
[1:48] ***SS***: And Eel illustrates what i was saying. Black and White.
[1:48] Zealot Benmergui: even some online Miss ***OE***, and absolutely true Mali...but that needs to be discussed and understood by both Dom and sub
[1:48] ***MM***: in person!
[1:49] ***OE***: to easy to be one personality behind a screen and another real
[1:49] Zealot Benmergui: I am not saying that there are not online relationships that can be tremendously helpful to such trauma, but you need to be clear eyed about it and judge what is, case by case
[1:50] Zealot Benmergui: and Mali is right, for any deep trauam, the online support must be just one element, in addition to sound professional advice and care, and loving friends in real life
[1:50] ***OE***: getting the two together is like 1 in a million'
[1:50] Zealot Benmergui: Hard Limits can often be the wake up call, that you are dealing with people's lives and emotions here, not just kinky chat online
[1:51] Zealot Benmergui: and therefore, you need to be aware and cognisant of the risks and benefits involved
[1:51] ***MM***: on both sides
[1:51] ***MM***: there are plenty of Dom/mes in this game acting out unhealthy prior trauma as well
[1:51] ***MS***: indeed
[1:51] ***OE***: i am hard nosed .. esp. onlines..
[1:51] Zealot Benmergui: we talk an awful lot of shit in places like House of V...but we are real people, often with real problems...and we need at times to remember that and decide what we are willing and capable of doing in those situations
[1:52] ***OE***: ..and i cringe
[1:52] ***OE***: usually leave
[1:52] ***MM*** comforts ***OE***
[1:53] ***OE***: ::smiles:: down at Marliene.. i been there and have done that syndrom.. and real life too..
[1:53] Zealot Benmergui: Hard limits are the place whre reality encounters the fantasy of online D/s..like teutonic plates, grinding each other down
[1:54] Zealot Benmergui: They need to be seen for what they are, and the choices they face us with need to be understood
[1:54] Zealot Benmergui: and not taken lightly, or at face value
[1:54] Zealot Benmergui: which is a suitably dramatic point to get business out of the way
[1:55] ***OE***: realisation is the key.. most don't have the insight nor knowlege to understand
[1:55] Zealot Benmergui: Remember I have monkeys to feed, so I accept tips paid to me dirrectly
[1:55] ***MM***: mmm bananas
[1:56] ***MM***: hey A
[1:56] ***AM***: hi ***AK***
[1:56] Zealot Benmergui: Our next lecture will be Monday (maybe moved to Sunday depending on my hours), and on the suggestion of our own dear Abs, it will be about Self Punishment in submissives
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