What the hell is WRONG with her?: Things Your sub Won't Tell You - 11/10/08

[7:07] Zealot Benmergui: Welcome A/all to the House of V’s College of Kink. My name is Zealot Benmergui, Baron BardHaven and I will be your host today. The topic for today is "What the hell is WRONG with her?: Things Your sub Won't Tell You". We will be discussing ways in which Dominants and Masters typically misunderstand their submissives and ways for them to communicate better and more enjoyably. Please note that for the purpose of clarity, I will tend to use “she” to refer to a submissive and “he” to refer to a Dominant, but either can be of any gender.
[7:08] Zealot Benmergui: We talk a great deal in these lectures about the way the mainstream, and we ourselves, perceive D/s. How better can we understand ourselves then by seeing ourselves through the eyes of others. It is also good for keeping the ego in check if a bit embarrassing. After all, the mainstream tends to view Dominants as badly toilet trained, sex-obsessed troglodytes…when we know they can use the grown up bathroom just like big boys.
[7:09] Zealot Benmergui: Though if you look at the men's room here at House of V, you wouldn;t know it
[7:09] Zealot Benmergui: Dominants aren’t the only part of this equation that is misunderstood. Submissives online come in for their far share of stereotypes as well. First of all, most of you are actually men. Those that aren’t men are badly in need of a good normal fuck, or therapy, or both. Maybe a good normal fuck from a licensed therapist? Unless you are one of the men pretending to be a woman, then that would just be gross…unless the therapist were a woman, or a woman pretending to be a man.
[7:09] ***RV*** laughs
[7:10] ***EC***: glad you cleared that one up Sir
[7:10] Zealot Benmergui: Damn, this is getting complex…and is it getting warm in here?
[7:10] ***VT*** giggles.
[7:10] ***CV***: lol
[7:10] Zealot Benmergui: Anyway, to cut a long and troublingly arousing story short, submissives also tend to be misunderstood, first and foremost by the Dominants who love them. Just as many Dominants can get lost in the role they have learned to play, so can submissives…in fact, even more so. After all, aren’t submissives supposed to be quiet, meek, wishing only their master’s pleasure. Isn’t that the very meaning of “submissive”? Can this view contribute to all this misunderstanding?
[7:11] Zealot Benmergui: There is certainly a great deal of pressure in the online D/s community for a submissive to be a REAL submissive. You will often hear people in the club here at V say that so and so isn;t a REAL submissive because she argued, or wore clothing, or could spell.
[7:12] ***RV*** chuckles
[7:12] ***VT*** arches a brow.
[7:12] ***VT***: Shame on her.
[7:12] ***EC***: oh deer
[7:12] ***EC***: LOL
[7:12] ***VM***: hehe
[7:12] ***tY***: yeah a "real submissive" is meant to be braindead..
[7:12] Zealot Benmergui: The peer pressure a submissive can face to "conform" to the view of the majority is far more powerful and persuasive then that which Doms face..though they are less likely to have to face the classic Dom camp "soap on a rope" trick
[7:13] ***RV***: oooo, Dom camp
[7:13] ***JH***: ther's a camp?
[7:13] Zealot Benmergui: This peer pressure can often times result in submissives simply choosing to stay silent about things which they are toild, or fear, in some way makes them less submissive.
[7:14] Zealot Benmergui: *nods...Yes Camp Wannafloggaslut, on the bakes of the River Denial.
[7:14] Zealot Benmergui: *banks
[7:14] ***RV***: lmao
[7:14] ***EC***: LOL
[7:14] ***CV***: lol
[7:14] ***VM***: giggles
[7:14] ***SF***: >_<
[7:14] ***AP***: taking notes
[7:15] Zealot Benmergui: I had a wonderful summer there when I was 16..except for the rash...funny, I couldn;t face an enema for years after that summer.
[7:15] ***VT*** blinks.
[7:15] Zealot Benmergui: BUT...moving on
[7:15] ***SF***: lol
[7:15] ***RV*** boggles at the visual
[7:15] ***SF***: lol
[7:15] ***EC***: butt moving on??
[7:15] ***AP*** gasps in horror
[7:15] ***AG***: mmmm
[7:16] Zealot Benmergui: OK, I would like to get that gag behind us now, thank you
[7:16] Zealot Benmergui: Beyond peer pressure, the desire to simple be a “good submissive” is powerful. Of course, what IS a good submissive? Let’s pick apart for a moment one of the things most submissives feel that they owe their master’s, and that most Dominants wish…peace of mind. Isn’t a part of wishing their Master’s pleasure not telling him things that may make him unhappy, or upset? So what sort of things do submissives tend to keep to themselves for Master’s own good, and are they right to do so?
[7:17] Zealot Benmergui: Somewhat obviously, they are often loath to tell a master something that could make them unhappy..and whay is most likely to do that, beyond telling them that you got their wives email and she was totally surprised to find out he had a slave?
[7:18] ***CJ***: hahaha
[7:18] ***EC***: rofl
[7:18] ***AP***: i bet!
[7:18] ***SF***: xD
[7:18] ***SF***: xD
[7:18] ***VM***: oooooh no
[7:18] ***SF*** feels grateful not to be married
[7:18] Zealot Benmergui: To know that their sub is unhappy of course..therefore, isn;t it best to just swallow it, and be a "good submissive"?
[7:19] Zealot Benmergui: Unfortunately, I have seen many relationships, and been involved in a few, where this tendency on the part of many submissives, which tends to be actively encouraged by much of the D/s world, has lead to disaster. A problem cannot be worked on, or even understood, unless both parties are aware of it. Silence can bring peace of mind, but can be in and of itself, a trap. I can tell you from experience that peace is more than just the absence of strife. In such a situation, before they know it, a minor issue can become a major, relationship crippling problem. A trap indeed.
[7:19] Zealot Benmergui: How do people find themselves in this trap? Well, some submissives tell themselves that knowing they are unhappy about something, even if that thing is minor, will upset their master. Worse, some say that if He doesn’t feel it for himself, then he is either unworthy, or it is too small to matter. Both are dangerous. A Dominant is not a Pollyanna in a leather codpiece (or at least shouldn’t be), not some Master Slutpuncher of Sunnybrook Farm, who can bear nothing but sunshine and sugar cookies, even when those sugar cookies are cut into kinky shapes. He can hear bad news, listen to your troubles…in fact, it is part of what he SHOULD be doing. How can he take proper care of a woman who won’t even TELL him her cares?
[7:20] Zealot Benmergui: I have had girls explain they didn’t want to be seen as whining, or make him feel he is somehow inadequate...or even that she was afraid of losing her position if his other girl or girls felt she was complaining or a malcontent. All of these things are bad, bad, bad…and Master’s will often encourage all of those situations. Why?
[7:21] Zealot Benmergui: Well, beyond the fun of watching the slutfight, of course.
[7:21] ***AG***: haha
[7:21] ***CV***: lol
[7:21] Zealot Benmergui: Well, some see withholding such information as making their job easier, or they just can’t cope with what they view as typical sub angst or drama. You have my permission to hit such Dominants with large pointy objects, like buildings or streetcars. Of course, I have to admit that there are SOME submissives, of course none of you here except for Rowan, but theoretically there are SOME who may get a bit…EMO. Drama often can be a part of the fun around here..but that doesn’t mean you should stop expressing yourself.
[7:21] ***RV***: pfft
[7:22] Zealot Benmergui: First and foremost, submissives need to tell their Master how they feel, what they like or don;t like...they need to keep a running line of communication, because not doing so will almost always blow up in their faces. Why?
[7:23] Zealot Benmergui: Because with a few notable exceptions, Master's aren't stupid.
[7:23] Zealot Benmergui: ...
[7:23] ***AP***: coughs
[7:23] ***RV*** bites her tonguew
[7:23] Zealot Benmergui: ok, scratch that last line
[7:23] ***RV***: *tongue
[7:23] Zealot Benmergui: replace it with SOME masters aren;t completely stupid
[7:24] ***SD*** laughs
[7:24] Zealot Benmergui: They will realize that you are unhappy, or out of sorts..and when you don;t tell them why, it creates enormous amounts of tension.
[7:24] ***tY***: I haven't noticed that Masters as a group are any more or any less intelligent than any other group of men..
[7:24] Zealot Benmergui: OK, go back to theline again
[7:24] Zealot Benmergui: remove masters, insert Men
[7:25] Zealot Benmergui: Groovy?
[7:25] Zealot Benmergui: Going on....
[7:26] Zealot Benmergui: For all the girls I have had come to me to explain that they just can;t tell Master THIS...I have had Dominants ask me if I knew what was the matter with their sub.
[7:26] Zealot Benmergui: So the first thing that submissives don;t often tell their Masters, and need to, is how they are, especially when the truth is not a positive thing.
[7:27] Zealot Benmergui: The second thing they don;t tend to express clearly, is WHAT THEY WANT.
[7:27] Zealot Benmergui: Unfortunetly, I have not had the pleasure of Domming or having sex with everyone in this room
[7:27] Zealot Benmergui: except of course for ***SF*** here.
[7:27] ***RV***: giggles
[7:27] ***SF*** thins petter that not happen
[7:28] ***CV***: lol
[7:28] ***SF***: *damm keyboard
[7:28] Zealot Benmergui: But I can bet that each and every one of you tends to prefer different things, as both submissives and women...no two are exactly alike.
[7:28] ***SF***: * dust keyboard
[7:28] ***AG***: it's getting warm in here
[7:29] Zealot Benmergui: Why do so many submissives expect that their master will just "know"...or worse, why do they assume they will be happy with the standard "submissive treatment A"
[7:29] ***CV***: Umm you need to replace submissive with women.
[7:29] Zealot Benmergui: As important as, explained ina previous lecture, it is for a Master to be clear with a sub what he expects, it is also essential for a submissive to clearly state what she wants or needs.
[7:29] ***SD***: Becuase most Master expect you to be the typical stereotype Sub.
[7:29] ***SF*** sadly nods @ Cali's comment
[7:30] Zealot Benmergui: Yes, thank you Miss ***SD***...and what is the proper response to a masater who expects yo to be just another submissive?
[7:31] ***SD***: Well, I am not a stereotype. i am me and who I am is nothing like others.
[7:31] Zealot Benmergui: Hmmm...did my connection just die?
[7:31] ***AP***: cant type my answer to that...too rude
[7:31] Zealot Benmergui: oh good, it is back
[7:32] ***CV***: lol
[7:32] ***AP***: bites tongue
[7:32] ***VT***: Goodbye.
[7:32] Zealot Benmergui: did MY answer come through?
[7:32] ***SF***: nope
[7:32] ***SF***: nope
[7:32] ***AP***: shakes head no
[7:32] ***CV***: I don't think so.
[7:32] ***SD***: 7:30] Zealot Benmergui: Yes, thank you Miss ***SD***...and what is the proper response to a masater who expects yo to be just another submissive?
[7:32] Zealot Benmergui: I would suggest "Go fuck yourself, I am looking for the right Master for me, ya stupid douchebag"
[7:32] ***SD***: last ine
[7:32] Zealot Benmergui: or words to that effect
[7:32] ***CV*** laughs
[7:32] ***EC***: makes a note of the wording
[7:32] ***VT***: Well, that's a bit more dramatic than goodbye.
[7:33] ***SD*** smiles...Thank you Sir Zealot.
[7:33] ***AP***: oh very similar to what i was thinking
[7:33] Zealot Benmergui: Oh trust me dear, with that line, you won;t NEED to add goodbye at the end
[7:33] ***SF*** looks at his hand.... whishes he's a good master already :S
[7:33] ***CV***: This whole discussion could be about male female relationships.
[7:33] ***VT***: Agreed.
[7:33] Zealot Benmergui: Miss ***CV***, you have just uncovered a great truth
[7:34] Zealot Benmergui: It is just that due to the nature of the relationship, certain things are more readily apparent, or the balances are different.
[7:34] ***CV***: lol
[7:34] Zealot Benmergui: There is very little about a D/s relationship that is not true in ANY relationship
[7:35] Zealot Benmergui: We make a big noise about how unique and special D/s is..but in the end, love, caring, sex, excitement, hate, fear, safety, contentment...it's all there, all the same...
[7:36] ***SD***: Agrees.
[7:36] Zealot Benmergui: The mix is just a bit different for us then the mainstream
[7:37] Zealot Benmergui: I have one last point to make before we summarize, and you can all play with your bobbleheads
[7:37] ***CV***: An oberservation i made about the difference in D/s is that they talk more openly about sex with each other mainstream.
[7:37] ***CV***: than^
[7:37] ***CV***: I'll hush.
[7:37] ***CV*** grins
[7:37] Zealot Benmergui: *nods...You are quite right Miss ***CV***, we are more used to having to discuss sex then many mainstream relationships
[7:38] Zealot Benmergui: this is mainly because the instructions for most bondage slings are written in Chinese
[7:38] ***CV***: lol
[7:38] ***VM***: lmao
[7:38] ***SF*** looks at the big paper that came from china with a rope...
[7:38] Zealot Benmergui: "Honey, it says "Fior enoyment of maxima motion in intimacy, do not render the secondary primary before the pleasure is intoxicating?"
[7:38] ***VM***: LOL
[7:38] ***CV***: lol
[7:38] ***VS***: *snort
[7:39] ***RV***: rofl
[7:39] ***VS***: (sry)
[7:39] ***CV***: lol
[7:39] Zealot Benmergui: And the helpdesk only speaks Pakistani
[7:39] ***JH***: But he said his name was Steve....
[7:39] ***VM*** always loves coming to class with Zealot.. always so funny
[7:39] Zealot Benmergui: Excatly....or he killed and is wearing Steve, one of the two
[7:39] ***SF***: my, I'm on theh' floor!
[7:40] Zealot Benmergui: On last point recagring expressing what you want
[7:40] Zealot Benmergui: *One last point regarding
[7:40] Zealot Benmergui: wow, even I couldn;t read that one
[7:40] ***VT*** laughs.
[7:40] ***RV***: your typos are legendary
[7:40] Zealot Benmergui: I have haad women say they couldn;t express what they wanted because they didn;t know....
[7:40] Zealot Benmergui: That is a perfectly legitimate answer
[7:41] ***SF***: I did that on prupose ¬_¬
[7:41] ***AG***: omg too funny
[7:41] ***CV***: lol
[7:42] Zealot Benmergui: Many women especially new to D/s, as well as many men, dogs, shetland ponies whatever and even people when just starting a new relationship, don;t know what they want...
[7:42] Zealot Benmergui: part of the purpose of D/s is to explore things of that nature, in safety
[7:42] Zealot Benmergui: Never be afraid to be honest about no knowing..half the fun is finding an answer to that question.
[7:42] Zealot Benmergui: To summarize then...
[7:43] Zealot Benmergui: Often subs will keep information from Doms for their own good that proves disaterous.
[7:43] Zealot Benmergui: Some men are not stupid.
[7:43] Zealot Benmergui: A sub should always may sure to express how they are feeling in the relationship or situation, no matter if it may upset their Dom or no...it is only through upset that problems are solved.
[7:44] Zealot Benmergui: A sub must also be as honest as they can be about what they wish from their Master or the relationship or evenjust tonights scene...including saying they don't know and would like to find out
[7:45] Zealot Benmergui: Finally, if your Master does not want to hear these things, or says you are being dramatic or y'know, a spazo...get a knew master
[7:45] Zealot Benmergui: *new
[7:45] Zealot Benmergui: Now then we hearby commence the discussion and bobblehead flickoff...spanking Angel to follow.
[7:46] ***CV***: lol
[7:46] ***SF***: :3
[7:46] ***CV***: you know once a girl is attacked it is not always that easy to leave even if they know the relationship is not working.
[7:46] Zealot Benmergui: True confessions...what is the stupidest thing any of you have not told your Master or Dom...beyond "The baby is yours"
[7:47] ***CV***: lol
[7:47] ***AG***: oh my
[7:47] ***VT*** chokes.
[7:47] Zealot Benmergui: *nods..You are quite right Miss ***CV***...sometimes it takes a great deal of effort or strength
[7:48] ***AP***: thinking...there is so much to choose from
[7:48] Zealot Benmergui: but keeping silent about it never helps, it just makes it even harder to resolve
[7:48] ***AP***: nods
[7:48] ***CV***: I think people today are programed to keep quiet.
[7:48] Zealot Benmergui: Also, regarding things you didn;t tell your Master, "He wasn;t really my brother" is also off limits
[7:49] ***CV***: lol
[7:49] Zealot Benmergui: nods...True..as Carlin would say "What if I don;t want to have a NICE day???"
[7:49] ***VT***: Then whip the person that said it to you?
[7:49] Zealot Benmergui: We are taught that no one wants to hear our pain or upset...
[7:49] ***CV***: lol
[7:49] ***AP***: you could grin and bear it LOL
[7:49] ***RV***: i (still) haven't told my Master that I'm tired of being discreet and would prefer a more public relationship. It's hard to talk about because we don't have much time together, and i'd rather keep the time we do have nice and pleasant.
[7:50] ***VM***: I think some Masters feel they are weak.. if they are kind a listen
[7:50] ***CV***: True..and a lot of people don't like disharmony.
[7:50] ***AP***: like you are critising them too...
[7:50] ***VM***: But is you find the right one.. it is heaven
[7:50] Zealot Benmergui: There are many pitfalls to expressingyourself.,..but more if you don;t
[7:50] ***CV***: Oh that is a good point..how do you adress issue with out sounding critical.
[7:51] ***SF***: I allways feel weird when my slaves don't talk to me but the roleplay and allways "yes Master" I feel like they're hidding something I might know...
[7:51] ***VM***: If you do not ... you will end up leaving eventurally
[7:51] Zealot Benmergui: Nods...do you ask them about it, ***SF***?
[7:52] Zealot Benmergui: and Miss ***CV***, one of the best ways is to start with a compliment
[7:52] ***SF***: yep
[7:53] ***SF***: they say "..." or "nothing master" or "RL Master"... I tell them about my days to tease them to tell me things... it's hard
[7:53] Zealot Benmergui: "Master, I REALLY loved that scene we did last night on the spanking horse, that is just the sort of thing I enjoy..but next time, maybe don;t wear the mecha anime avatar?
[7:53] ***RV***: lol
[7:53] ***VT*** laughs.
[7:54] ***CV***: lol
[7:54] ***SF***: lol
[7:54] ***SF***: lol
[7:54] Zealot Benmergui: Sometimes you need to make them feel secure enough to tell you ***SF***....
[7:54] Zealot Benmergui: I also find that such things can work well while scening...
[7:54] ***CV***: Oh that is true.
[7:54] Zealot Benmergui: if they want to cum, they need to tell you the truth
[7:54] ***AG***: hmmm
[7:55] ***VT***: Orgasmic deprivation is akin to truth serum.
[7:55] ***VT*** shudders.
[7:55] ***CJ***: rofl
[7:55] ***VM***: WOW
[7:55] ***SF***: Grins... A LOT
[7:55] ***CV***: But if your not getting the truth.. will they not cum ..really?
[7:55] Zealot Benmergui: it also makes them feel more willing tosay something difficult..after all, tough to be offended that she doesn;t likeyour test in cloithing when she is begging you to let her cum
[7:55] ***VM***: I think hugs and kisses.. intimacy can get any girl talking
[7:56] Zealot Benmergui: If the problem is that severe, Miss ***CV***, then it is already a seriousmatter
[7:56] Zealot Benmergui: the idea is to nip these problems early
[7:56] ***CV***: True.
[7:57] Zealot Benmergui: If a problem is already getting in the way of intimacy, then that is another matter entirely
[7:58] Zealot Benmergui: From a submissive's point of view, what are some good ways to tell a master something they won;t want to hear?
[7:58] ***AP***: whilst your....
[7:58] Zealot Benmergui: well..yeah
[7:58] ***AP***: smiles
[7:59] Zealot Benmergui: beyond that
[7:59] ***VT***: When he has a mouthful of mashed potatoes.
[7:59] ***VM***: smiles
[7:59] ***CV***: lol
[7:59] ***AP***: he might choke
[7:59] Zealot Benmergui: obviously you can;t fall back onthe Wilma Flintstone standby of "After making him Brontoburgers"
[7:59] ***CV***: lol
[8:00] ***VM***: Tell him straight out why you are unhappy... and what it will take to make you happy
[8:00] Zealot Benmergui: yeah, while eating is not a good time for anything aklin to "The baby is yours"
[8:00] ***SF*** likes brontoburgers.. with pterosauruss eggs on them
[8:00] ***RV***: i like talking about such things post-coital
[8:00] Zealot Benmergui: Miss ***VM*** is very very correct\
[8:00] ***VT***: Well... there's less liklihood of yelloing.
[8:00] ***AP***: you could both end up wearing the mashed potatoes
[8:00] Zealot Benmergui: never bring up a problem without proposing a solution
[8:00] ***CV***: My personal feeling is how do you get in a realtionship where you can't talk to they guy in the first place.
[8:00] Zealot Benmergui: Oh Miss ***CV***, all kinds of ways
[8:01] ***CV***: Oh that is good.
[8:01] Zealot Benmergui: people are also known to change in a relationship
[8:01] ***CV***: i'm listening.
[8:01] Zealot Benmergui: at first he wa so sweet..he slapped the collar on, he's Archie Bunker in a mullet
[8:01] ***AG***: haha
[8:02] Zealot Benmergui: What the woman needs may also change..or she may just flat out make a mistake
[8:02] ***CV***: I think people jump into relationships way too fast.
[8:02] ***JH***: way...
[8:02] ***AG***: esp here in sl -- way too fast
[8:02] Zealot Benmergui: How many of you have..well..how many of you have had a friend,...who accepted a collar they shouldn;t have?
[8:02] ***RV***: it's very very hard to say "Master, I screwed up"
[8:03] ***SF*** thinks of his current second and her last experience...
[8:03] Zealot Benmergui: The House of V is up there...how many people are there right now, 20 oe so?
[8:03] ***AG***: but it is better for both parties in the long run if u admit to the mistake
[8:03] ***tY***: I have accepted one collar.. I am beginning to believe they are all mistakes.. ;)
[8:03] Zealot Benmergui: say half are submissives?
[8:03] ***AP***: absolutely, ***AG***
[8:03] Zealot Benmergui: I promise you I could walk in there, and by the end of a few hours, have a girl collared I have never met before in my life
[8:03] ***VM***: I think it is important to know your needs... from the start.. and tell your Master.. but when you are new.. you do not know what those are
[8:03] ***AG***: nodsw
[8:03] Zealot Benmergui: Lots of masters could
[8:04] ***AG***: oops nods*
[8:04] ***VT***: She'd be lucky to have a good Dom.
[8:04] ***JH***: sad...
[8:04] ***AP***: but they obviously dont take it seriously, and neither would you, if you did that, Sir
[8:04] Zealot Benmergui: Good or not, it would still be a mistake
[8:04] ***VT***: True.
[8:04] ***AG***: they get collared in minutes and then wonder why things turned out to be such a disaster ---geeeee goooooo fig
[8:04] Zealot Benmergui: People make bad choices, especially when they are new to the lifestyle
[8:04] Zealot Benmergui: I know dozens of girls who accepted the first collar they were offered
[8:05] ***CV***: i saw a guy in the house last night that said he was looking for a Mistress or Domme.
[8:05] ***CV***: Taht is said Zealot.
[8:05] ***CV***: sad^
[8:05] ***AG***: yes if someone is so quick to offer a collar they prob dont have a clue as to what they are doing
[8:05] Zealot Benmergui: Butit is why it is so essential that people express themselves, for good and bad
[8:05] Zealot Benmergui: don't assume that it will get better magically
[8:06] ***AG***: assume it will get worse instead
[8:06] ***AG***: =0
[8:06] Zealot Benmergui: "I know, I will workon sending out "I don;t really care for anal sex" vibes at him..."
[8:06] ***VS*** laughss
[8:06] ***CV***: lol
[8:06] ***SF***: O_o
[8:06] ***SF***: O_o
[8:06] ***AG***: but they really mean yes when they send out those "dont care for anal sex" vibes
[8:07] Zealot Benmergui: also, try your best to be honest even with yourself
[8:07] Zealot Benmergui: How many of you have agreed to a situation, thinking you would get used to it..and then didn't?
[8:07] ***VS***: ?
[8:07] ***VM***: me
[8:07] ***VS***: but
[8:07] ***AP***: with each mistake we grow and learn...and continue to do so
[8:08] Zealot Benmergui: "No it's alright Master...I am sure I will learn to love little Bitchikins mastertrapper, just as you do..once she stops calling me master's ball and Chain"...
[8:08] ***CV***: you mean like a dom/ Master that wants multiple sub/slaves.
[8:08] ***CV***: lol
[8:09] ***VM***: I think for most part... we do not think as subs... that we have a "right" to have needs.... that is it all about him... I know different now
[8:09] ***CV***: i think some women think that they can say ..oh sure i can accept others..thinking they can run them off.
[8:09] Zealot Benmergui: Don;t misunderstand me, such situations can certainly work..I am about as monogomous as a parking meter, lots of people turn my crank
[8:09] ***RV***: rofl
[8:09] Zealot Benmergui: but it is essential that everyone involved be alright with it, and not hoping they can adapt
[8:09] ***CV***: lol
[8:10] ***VS***: but
[8:10] ***VM***: funny
[8:10] Zealot Benmergui: yes Miss ***VS***?
[8:10] ***VS***: to try new things and take risks, you hope you will be happy -
[8:10] Zealot Benmergui: yes...
[8:10] ***VS***: if you don't try
[8:10] ***VS***: and you dont go ito it wiht that hope
[8:10] Zealot Benmergui: but then explain at the start you are trying it..and if you find it is not working..express that
[8:10] Zealot Benmergui: don;t just soldier on...or you willbe a dead little soldier
[8:11] Zealot Benmergui: Go into it with high hopes...but a realistic eye
[8:11] ***SF*** thinks will have to have a chat with his littles later on...
[8:11] ***CV***: Something else i think people should remember is not to assume they know what the other peson will do or say.
[8:12] Zealot Benmergui: Very true Miss ***CV***
[8:12] Zealot Benmergui: people will always surprise you
[8:12] ***CV***: I had a person i thoguth was upset with me once.. tell mehe wasn't at ll upset.. and never never assuem that again.
[8:12] Zealot Benmergui: Good for you...again, you need to talk it out to know what is real
[8:13] ***CV***: If you don't say..you get bitter and hateful...imho..grins
[8:14] ***VM***: I have found that it is important to talk about things... after a scene... or send a "note" to your Master .. to read and respond when, he has time to concentrate
[8:14] Zealot Benmergui: nods...you end up resneting them, even though you never gave them a chance
[8:14] ***CV***: exactly.
[8:14] Zealot Benmergui: quite right Miss ***VM***, remember that men only have enough blood to run one head at a time
[8:14] ***CV***: lol
[8:14] Zealot Benmergui: if you want thinking, wait a bit
[8:14] ***VM***: love it
[8:15] ***SF*** nods at the truth
[8:15] ***CV***: why are you so quite sweety...oh just waiting on the blood flow..grins
[8:15] ***CV***: quiet^
[8:15] ***VM***: but then you are not disrupting .. to others too
[8:15] ***CV***: Good idea.
[8:16] ***CV***: Good class too.
[8:16] Zealot Benmergui: nods...if there are other people involved in the scene, then yes, it is not a good time to bring up issues
[8:16] Zealot Benmergui: which is one more point
[8:16] Zealot Benmergui: if you have a problem you need to dfiscuss with your dOM, IN OPEN CHAT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CLUB IS not THE BEST PLACE
[8:16] ***CV***: lol
[8:17] ***SF***: >_<
[8:17] ***AP***: how cruel lol
[8:17] Zealot Benmergui: "Maaster...stop dancing and tell me why you won;t make love to me anymore? Did I do something wrong???"
[8:17] ***RV***: lolol
[8:17] ***SF***: rotlfmao
[8:17] ***JH***: yikes
[8:17] ***AP***: cant wait!
[8:17] ***CV***: lol
[8:17] Zealot Benmergui: "You over there, don;t I look pretty? Wouldn;t you fuck me if I asked you to? Then why won;t my Master?"
[8:18] ***RV***: so wrong
[8:18] ***RV***: lol
[8:18] ***AP***: rubs hands together, and grins...
[8:18] Zealot Benmergui: Dear god I have seen it happen
[8:18] Zealot Benmergui: blood...everywhere
[8:18] ***AP***: LOL
[8:18] ***SF***: ... knows himself and that his problems will be more complex
[8:18] ***SF*** and sights
[8:19] Zealot Benmergui: Try toi get a quiet IM to discuss problems..or if not at that moment, scedule a time
[8:19] ***VM***: good one
[8:19] Zealot Benmergui: And phrase it gently..don;t imply it is the end of the world..or say something like "Perhaps you can spare a few minutes for me tomorrow Masater, if you aren;t busy fucking HER..."
[8:20] ***AP***: gosh LOL
[8:20] ***CV*** groans at the schedule a time. What is time is theissue..lol
[8:20] ***VM***: we have a rule .. no private im's to our Master during a group.. not fair to others, to take him away
[8:20] Zealot Benmergui: Miss ***CV***, time is always the issue
[8:20] ***CV***: lol
[8:20] Zealot Benmergui: Sometimes it can get like going to the hairdresser
[8:21] ***CV***: does that make a good Master/Dom?
[8:21] Zealot Benmergui: "Well, I can fit you in as my 1 o clock, or my 2 if Candy is just getting her tips frosted. What about my 11 o clock of Lily cancels again?"
[8:21] ***AP***: what every six weeks you have to keep going back to do it all over again?
[8:22] Zealot Benmergui: By and large, no, it is the extreme, but in even the most simple realtionship, time will play a part
[8:22] ***CV***: Okay but that is a great reason to take time finding the right relationship.
[8:22] Zealot Benmergui: never underestimate it
[8:22] Zealot Benmergui: even in the right realtionship
[8:23] Zealot Benmergui: for almost all people you will be with online, you are already splitting their time with real life
[8:23] ***CV***: I'm saying if your looking and he or she is not online as much as you need for you ..then your barking up the wrong tree.
[8:23] ***RV***: sometimes the right relationships come with their share of problems - doesn't mean they're not right
[8:23] Zealot Benmergui: Yes, absolutely
[8:23] Zealot Benmergui: that is very very wise..time is ALWAYS an issue to discuss up front
[8:23] Zealot Benmergui: Will you be on when I am, and enough for me
[8:24] ***AG***: indeed *sighs*
[8:24] ***CV***: Becaus if you need a lot fo time..and they don't have it there is going to be an issue.
[8:24] Zealot Benmergui: and not just this week when you are on vacation, or in the thrill of a new relationship, but normally
[8:24] Zealot Benmergui: time is one of the main issues couples assume they will work out after the fact..and they seldom do
[8:25] Zealot Benmergui: since it haas no ay to bend..there is only so much time
[8:25] Zealot Benmergui: and what are you going to say "Let the little brat cough, you promised to be on voice with MEEEEE tonight"
[8:26] ***RV***: hehe
[8:26] Zealot Benmergui: "I don;t care oif she is 5, she is doing this to get in the way of OUR LOVE...."
[8:26] Zealot Benmergui: sob sob sob
[8:26] ***CV***: lol
[8:26] ***JH*** cringes at the thought
[8:26] ***VT*** wonders if that's the voice of experience?
[8:27] ***VS***: hm
[8:27] ***CV***: ...or your just saying that she isn't really sick....
[8:27] Zealot Benmergui: Honey, it sure ain;t the Voice of America
[8:27] ***VS***: but this suggests another question
[8:27] ***VS***: when it is our _own_ madness --
[8:27] Zealot Benmergui: Yes Miss ***VS***?
[8:28] ***VS***: just , how to tell but -
[8:28] Zealot Benmergui: ahh..you mean when is the problem all in your own head..or in short, what if YOU are the problem?
[8:28] ***VS***: maybe you can't
[8:28] Zealot Benmergui: sometimes you can
[8:28] ***VS***: yes
[8:28] Zealot Benmergui: try and go through why you are upset rationally
[8:28] ***VS***: if the kid id coughing and you are sayig that --
[8:29] Zealot Benmergui: or tell it to a friend who is impartial
[8:29] Zealot Benmergui: or to someone you barely know, so they aren;t biased
[8:29] ***RV***: i still think you can talk with your Master about it. "Master, I
[8:29] ***RV***: I'm upset, and i know it's my own issue, but i need your help
[8:29] Zealot Benmergui: IF the kid is coughing and you are saying that, and you KNOW it can;t be a problem with you, it's all Him HIM HIM HIMHIMHIMHIM
[8:29] Zealot Benmergui: then please forget you ever met me
[8:29] ***RV***: lol
[8:30] ***AP*** giggles at Evie
[8:30] ***KF***: Hello Sir
[8:30] ***VS***: mm, I meant the opposite
[8:30] ***KF***: Hello ***EC***
[8:30] ***EC***: Hi kirsten :-) thank you
[8:30] ***CV***: lol
[8:30] Zealot Benmergui: Rowan is right, often a master can guide you thorugh those situations..but he needs to be pretty cvlever..and the connection needs to be strong
[8:30] ***KF***: your welcome
[8:31] ***RK***: hello my little pet, lovely to see you
[8:31] Zealot Benmergui: define the opposite, Miss ***VS***?
[8:31] ***RK***: please sit
[8:31] Zealot Benmergui: Hello River
[8:31] ***RK***: hi Z
[8:31] ***VS***: The chil is coughig, you are complaining - and you are being ridiculous to do so
[8:31] ***AP***: Oh Hello Sir...might as well join in :)
[8:31] ***EC***: .sit
[8:31] ***KF***: its very nice to see you also
[8:31] ***VS***: I mean not you but - whoever
[8:32] ***RK***: lol, so sorry for the mass of greetings Z
[8:32] ***AP*** thinks 'how rude!'
[8:32] ***VS***: I'm sorry, I'm not being very articulate
[8:32] Zealot Benmergui: Yes Miss ***VS***....how do you deal with that in yourself?
[8:32] Zealot Benmergui: That's OK River...I can only imagine the IMs
[8:32] ***RK***: hahahahaha
[8:33] Zealot Benmergui: Is that what you meant Miss ***VS***?
[8:33] ***EC***: .stand
[8:33] ***VS***: I guess, how to recognize it in that moment of insanity
[8:33] Zealot Benmergui: it is very very hard
[8:33] Zealot Benmergui: if you could see it, you probably wouldn;t do it
[8:34] Zealot Benmergui: just try as much as possible to look at a situation impartially
[8:35] Zealot Benmergui: brb
[8:35] ***CV***: Women do that so well..snickers
[8:35] ***AP***: howz the posse over there doing?
[8:35] ***RK***: Calithien, you read my thoughts
[8:35] ***CV***: i'm not picking on anyone.. i'm a women too
[8:35] ***EC***: spare ball here Angel
[8:36] ***AP***: LOLHe has three?
[8:36] ***EC***: yep LOL
[8:36] ***AG***: nice
[8:36] ***CV***: lol.. were a funny lot River..but ya'll love us.
[8:36] ***AP***: cant see it?
[8:36] ***RK***: I do Calithien, I do
[8:36] ***CV***: lol
[8:36] ***AP***: oops wrong one LOL
[8:37] ***RK***: jeez, what is this? Invasion of the body snatchers?
[8:37] ***RK***: I have been invaded
[8:37] ***CV***: lol
[8:37] ***EC***: no, it's an angel
[8:37] ***AP*** frowns...
[8:37] Zealot Benmergui: back
[8:37] ***RV***: wb
[8:37] ***CV***: wb
[8:37] ***AP***: oops look like you are paying attention everyone
[8:38] Zealot Benmergui: Riveer...continue the species AFTER the lecture
[8:38] ***AP***: bugger , how did that happen?
[8:38] ***AP***: oops wrong window sorry
[8:38] Zealot Benmergui: Well Angel..when a man and a woman REALLYlike one another and want to show it in a special way...
[8:38] ***RV***: lolol
[8:39] ***AP***: oh, really? i didnt know! what a shock!
[8:39] Zealot Benmergui: Miss ***VS***'s point of not being able to tell when you HAVE gone a bit off the reails is pretty wair
[8:39] Zealot Benmergui: *fair
[8:40] Zealot Benmergui: it is why I suggest a few days a month, not logging into Sl or emailing Master or any such things
[8:40] Zealot Benmergui: read a book, walk in the park, have sex with someone you pick up in a biker bar
[8:40] ***CV***: lol
[8:40] Zealot Benmergui: SOMETHING not in Sl, or connected to yoru Master/Dom.relationshiop
[8:41] Zealot Benmergui: sometimes the craziness here can take on it's own momentum
[8:41] ***CV*** wonders if biker bar is in the yellow pages.
[8:41] Zealot Benmergui: look under T for Trade, Rough
[8:41] ***CV***: lol
[8:42] Zealot Benmergui: I have found myself in tears over the fact someone didn;t log in when they said they would....
[8:42] Zealot Benmergui: sometimes, you need to step back, and get a damn hold of yourself
[8:43] Zealot Benmergui: That doesn;t mean that the emoptions are not real, or less powerful..just that we can very easily lose perspective here
[8:43] Zealot Benmergui: things which would have no meaning in RL suddenly become heartbreaking tramas here
[8:43] Zealot Benmergui: it is like a person who has no feeling below the neck, touching their ear is very very erotic, becuase their range of possible sensations are so limited
[8:44] Zealot Benmergui: we are limited here...so what we CAN feel becomes much mor eintense
[8:44] ***AG***: ahhhh
[8:44] ***AG***: i seee
[8:44] Zealot Benmergui: sometimes, just to keep ourselves on an even keel, we need to step away for a day or two
[8:44] ***SF***: well, wonderfull class, I've to go. I'll put in practice what I've learnt :)
[8:45] ***AG***: tc Sir =))
[8:45] ***CV***: Take care ***SF***.
[8:45] Zealot Benmergui: Not the complainging about lackof sex in public part, I hiope