D/s 101 submisive Rights and Dominant Responsibilities - 11/25/08

[2008/11/25 7:14] Pirate Russell: Welcome to House of V's College of Kink! As most of y'all know, My name is Pirate Russell, Head Mistress of the College, and today's instructor. I have been in SL for nearly 3 years, a lesbian Domme, the entire time.
[2008/11/25 7:14] ***AP***: Thanks Rich
[2008/11/25 7:15] ***AP***: winks
[2008/11/25 7:15] Pirate Russell: PLEASE TAKE ALL CROSS TALK TO IM
[2008/11/25 7:15] Pirate Russell: If any need to leave early, the transcript for this, and all other classes can be found at http://collegeofkink.blogspot.com.
[2008/11/25 7:15] Pirate Russell: This topic is VERY near and dear to My heart. I have seen submissives mistreated by their dominants and either left the SL Lifestyle or just spent way too much time not enjoying themselves.
[2008/11/25 7:15] Pirate Russell: My philosophy is that W/we are all her to enjoy ourselves. Some gain that enjoyment by being whipped, some by whipping. Some enjoy being humiliated, some enjoy humiliating them.
[2008/11/25 7:16] Pirate Russell: W/we each have our own fun, but it's just that. fun. W/we are here to enjoy our time or we'd be off doing other things in other games, or Real Life.....
[2008/11/25 7:16] Pirate Russell: Further submission is a GIFT. The most special gift that can be given.
[2008/11/25 7:16] Pirate Russell: subsmissives give themselves. There is no greater honor, or honour for those that speak English, than to be given the gift of submission.
[2008/11/25 7:17] Pirate Russell: I have found a very good list of submissive Rights
[2008/11/25 7:17] Pirate Russell: Here are some of the basic submissive rights:
[2008/11/25 7:17] Pirate Russell: 1) You have the right to be respected.
[2008/11/25 7:17] Pirate Russell: No one should be ordering you around or expecting you to answer questions
[2008/11/25 7:18] Pirate Russell: or doing things you're not comfortable with.
[2008/11/25 7:18] Pirate Russell: 2) You have the right to your freedom.
[2008/11/25 7:18] Pirate Russell: Just because someone is interested in you, they can't take your freedom from you.
[2008/11/25 7:19] Pirate Russell: Don't let anyone try to intimidate you; you belong to no one until you offer yourself to them.
[2008/11/25 7:19] Pirate Russell: They can't restrict you in any way until you allow that.
[2008/11/25 7:19] Pirate Russell: 3) You have a right to be satisfied--emotionally and physically.
[2008/11/25 7:20] Pirate Russell: This is a relationship, y'all. While the power control aspect does add a few kinks (pun intended) into the mix,
[2008/11/25 7:20] Pirate Russell: you don't get extra points for making yourself into a sacrificial lamb for someone else's amusement and/or satisfaction.
[2008/11/25 7:20] Pirate Russell: Get what you need or find someone else that will give it to you.
[2008/11/25 7:20] ***AP***: yay!
[2008/11/25 7:20] Pirate Russell: 4) You have a right to take your time and not rush into anything ever.
[2008/11/25 7:20] Pirate Russell: Being chained in the doorway, naked and vulnerable isn't really a good time to find out your Dominant wants to explore their sadistic side a little more.
[2008/11/25 7:21] Pirate Russell: Talk,
[2008/11/25 7:21] Pirate Russell: talk,
[2008/11/25 7:21] Pirate Russell: talk,
[2008/11/25 7:21] Pirate Russell: and talk some more. If you have concerns that aren't addressed, move on. It's not worth the risk.
[2008/11/25 7:21] Pirate Russell: 5) You DON'T have a right to play "needy and desperate".
[2008/11/25 7:21] Pirate Russell: Who in the world wants to own someone that doesn't have a backbone and will submit to anyone for any reason?
[2008/11/25 7:22] Pirate Russell: Big satisfaction potential there.
[2008/11/25 7:22] Pirate Russell: 6) You have a right to respect yourself.
[2008/11/25 7:22] Pirate Russell: This means holding out for the relationship YOU want and not being talked into the relationship someone else wants with you.
[2008/11/25 7:22] Pirate Russell: You're submissive, not stupid and, if you're not going to be happy, you're only wasting everyone's time.
[2008/11/25 7:23] Pirate Russell: And, just any collar isn't worth your peace of mind. Honest. It *HAS* to be the right one.
[2008/11/25 7:23] Pirate Russell: 7) You have the right to enjoy this always.
[2008/11/25 7:23] Pirate Russell: If you find you're in a relationship that's bringing more tears, confusion and unreasonable or uncomfortable demands than smiles and "warm fuzzies",
[2008/11/25 7:24] Pirate Russell: take some time to pull back and see what's going on or talk with someone else about it,either your Dominant or a friend who knows the lifestyle.
[2008/11/25 7:24] Pirate Russell: The same basics apply here as anywhere; something's wrong if you're dreading logging into SL, or hiding from people.
[2008/11/25 7:25] Pirate Russell: You deserve more than that. Have the courage to find it. You'll be glad you did!"
[2008/11/25 7:25] Pirate Russell: Most of all I want to reiterate, you have the RIGHT to enjoy yourself. and
[2008/11/25 7:25] Pirate Russell: submissives have the RIGHT to wait for the right Dominant.
[2008/11/25 7:25] Pirate Russell: Questions and comments on submissive rights?
[2008/11/25 7:25] Pirate Russell: Let's hold the questions for the end, this is an old script and I forgot to take that out...
[2008/11/25 7:26] Pirate Russell: Ok... now the other side of the coin, so to speak.
[2008/11/25 7:26] Pirate Russell: The following is taken Dominant's Creed
[2008/11/25 7:26] Pirate Russell: Above all else a Dom/me cherishes Their submissive, in the knowledge that the gift the submissive gives Them is the greatest gift of all.
[2008/11/25 7:26] Pirate Russell: A Dom/me is in control of Themselves first and foremost, so that They may control others.
[2008/11/25 7:27] Pirate Russell: In times of trouble, a Dom/me will leave the roles behind, to be a supportive friend and partner, never forgetting that this is still a loving relationship between two caring individuals.
[2008/11/25 7:27] Pirate Russell: A Dom/me is quick to understand the differences between fantasy and reality.
[2008/11/25 7:27] Pirate Russell: A Dom/me would never asks a submissive to put Them before their career, or family, or Rreal Life, just to satisfy Their own pleasure.
[2008/11/25 7:27] Pirate Russell: To win a submissive's mind, body, spirit, soul, and love, a Dom/me knows They must first win their trust.
[2008/11/25 7:28] Steel Shackle 1.14 (r forearm) whispers: Kiri gathers what's left of her energy to fight her Steel Shackle 1.14 (r forearm) some more...
[2008/11/25 7:28] Pirate Russell: A Dom/me must always show them that Their guidance and tutoring is knowledgeable and deserving of their attention, that this is a person they can learn from, and that they can trust Their direction.
[2008/11/25 7:28] Pirate Russell: A Dom/me proves to their submissive that They are someone they can lean on, and depend on.
[2008/11/25 7:29] Pirate Russell: When it comes time to teach Their submissive their lessons of obedience, They are a strong and unyielding professor.
[2008/11/25 7:29] Pirate Russell: A Dom/me will accept no flaw. Nothing less than perfection from Their submissive.
[2008/11/25 7:29] Pirate Russell: A Dom/me is always open to communication and discussion; always ready to hear Their submissive's wants and needs.
[2008/11/25 7:30] Pirate Russell: A Dom/me is patient; taking time to learn Their submissive's limits, and knowing that as their trust of Them grows, so will they.
[2008/11/25 7:30] Pirate Russell: A Dom/me never has to demand ritual behavior from Their submissive. Their submissive responds to Them out of the want of pleasing Them. Compliance comes from the wanting to please, not the fear of punishment.
[2008/11/25 7:30] Pirate Russell: A Dom/me understands the fragile nature of mind and body and never violates the trust given to Them.
[2008/11/25 7:31] Pirate Russell: A Dom/me is secure enough to laugh at Themselves and the absurdities of life. Open minded enough to learn new things. Strong enough to grow.
[2008/11/25 7:31] Pirate Russell: A Dom/me's tools are mind, body, spirit, soul, respect and love
[2008/11/25 7:31] Pirate Russell: A Dom/me understands that E/each partner gains most from pleasuring the O/other.
[2008/11/25 7:31] Pirate Russell: And B/both of T/them know that love and trust are the only bindings that truly hold.
[2008/11/25 7:32] Pirate Russell: The transcript for this, and all other classes can be found at http://collegeofkink.blogspot.com
[2008/11/25 7:32] Pirate Russell: Questions?? Comments??
[2008/11/25 7:32] Pirate Russell: SpeakEasy HUD detaching...
[2008/11/25 7:33] ***ML***: question please?
[2008/11/25 7:34] Pirate Russell: ok, go ahead, ***ML***
[2008/11/25 7:34] ***ML***: so ummm the reggamented strict bdsm is NOT neccasarily THE bDsM?
[2008/11/25 7:35] ***ML***: a sub mustn't always refer to self in 3rd person and the "rules" of lifestyle are kind of a personal customization ofthe particular sub/ Dom?
[2008/11/25 7:35] Pirate Russell: That depends on the releationship that the Dominant and submissive negotiate and decide upon
[2008/11/25 7:36] ***ML***: thank you
[2008/11/25 7:36] ***TV***: Excellent presentation Pirate. Well done
[2008/11/25 7:36] Pirate Russell: EVERY relationship RL or SL, BDSM or Vanilla, should be some type of negotiation at the begining, even if only discussing limits
[2008/11/25 7:37] ***RM*** puts my hand yp to ask a question
[2008/11/25 7:37] ***IM***: And the rules will change as the relationship changes and as the limits change.
[2008/11/25 7:37] ZHAO basic edition v1: Could not find animation '0:femalestand_jan5'
[2008/11/25 7:37] Pirate Russell: Yessir?
[2008/11/25 7:37] Pirate Russell: And VERY correct, ***IM***!
[2008/11/25 7:38] ZHAO basic edition v1: Could not find animation '0:femalestand_jan5'.
[2008/11/25 7:38] ***RM***: I agree, that negotion taked place, but I have found that the most intense excitement for both D/s is at the ragged edge of limits, pushing limts if yo will...how does that get pre negotiated
[2008/11/25 7:38] ***AP***: SOrry was interrupted, hm yes, i agree with ***IM*** - there should be regular reviews to see if you are happy - as things do change
[2008/11/25 7:38] Pirate Russell: Just tell your partner that
[2008/11/25 7:39] ***AP***: nods, as long as you have hard limits - and they know it
[2008/11/25 7:39] Pirate Russell: Say, hay, let's go beat your ass, but I like to push limits, is that cool with you?
[2008/11/25 7:39] ***IM***: And negotiate safewords.
[2008/11/25 7:40] ***AP***: keep your safe word handy
[2008/11/25 7:40] ***ML***: considers that the partner would know of the characteristic to press it to outer limits ?
[2008/11/25 7:40] Pirate Russell: That's true ***ML***, but especially in SL, there are BDSM-Hookups ALL the time
[2008/11/25 7:40] ZHAO basic edition v1: Could not find animation '0:femalestand_jan5'
[2008/11/25 7:41] ZHAO basic edition v1: Could not find animation '0:femalestand_jan5'.
[2008/11/25 7:42] Pirate Russell: Who's got the next question?!
[2008/11/25 7:42] ***AP***: yes, if you have discussed it well enough before, your partner would know you like to push limits.....sorry lagging here :)
[2008/11/25 7:43] ***AP***: But you still need to be careful, where you draw the line
[2008/11/25 7:43] Pirate Russell: Right, and if it's a 'one Dungeon Stand' you still need to let the submissive, or Dominant, as the case may be, what you're about.
[2008/11/25 7:44] ***RM***: I agree, the safe worrd is the key, we are evolving all the time in my view, we discover in the process both our limits and that the limits are sometimes msplaced
[2008/11/25 7:44] ZHAO basic edition v1: Could not find animation '0:femalestand_jan5'
[2008/11/25 7:44] ***AP***: OMG i'v lost the ability to speak! - i've lost words lol yes, quite right
[2008/11/25 7:44] ***AP***: oh there it is...snickers
[2008/11/25 7:44] ZHAO basic edition v1: Could not find animation '0:femalestand_jan5'.
[2008/11/25 7:45] ***ML***: wouldnt the TRUST factor of relationship aide in the entire"limits" aspect of the relationshiop?
[2008/11/25 7:46] ***RM2***: Sure.
[2008/11/25 7:46] ***AP***: definitely, but you still have to be careful with whom you trust - that can be a little tricky, but not impossible :)
[2008/11/25 7:46] Pirate Russell: Yes, the there is always SOME trust in BDSM relationships, and that is what makes the releationship sork
[2008/11/25 7:47] ZHAO basic edition v1: Could not find animation '0:femalestand_jan5'
[2008/11/25 7:47] ***IM***: One would have different rules and different limits depending on the particular partner, if it's your long time Mistress vs a "one night beating" for instance.
[2008/11/25 7:48] Pirate Russell: Yes, if ***IM*** were playing with someone she didn't know well, I'm sure the limits for that Domme would be different than they are for Me.
[2008/11/25 7:49] ***AP***: Am i sounding too cynical today? lol Yes, absolutely ***IM***! I guess i am thinking when you first meet that special somone...
[2008/11/25 7:49] ***ML***: thinks that as time increases and trust the "limits" aspect fades as per logiacal evoloution?
[2008/11/25 7:49] ***RM***: May I ask about power and Authority. It is clear to me that the relationship needs to ne negotiated, consensual, trusting. But is there room for punshment as oppossed to 'scenes". In other words, does or ought the Dom have power and authority
[2008/11/25 7:50] ***IM***: Oh yes!
[2008/11/25 7:50] ***AP***: Oh in RL long term relationships, yes, you can totally undertstand how far to go, and how much further you can push things - I am positive
[2008/11/25 7:50] Pirate Russell: Well, that's kind of why We're here, for the power. But that can be negotiated, too. I have had girls that didn't like spankings. I had the authority to issue them, but chose not to
[2008/11/25 7:51] ***ML***: i would think yes?
[2008/11/25 7:51] ***ML***: as that is part of the turn on of a Dom - they being confident and authorative .
[2008/11/25 7:51] ***AP***: Dom/mes have the power and authority, but ultimately, the sub is the most powerful, since they can give up their submission at any time if not looked after properly!
[2008/11/25 7:52] Pirate Russell: Most of the time yes, there are some wishy-washy Dominants out there, and dhere are submissives that seek that.
[2008/11/25 7:52] Pirate Russell: that's why not to rush into the wrong relationship
[2008/11/25 7:52] ***AP***: oooh scrunches nose up at wishy washy
[2008/11/25 7:52] Pirate Russell: Actually..... submissives have ALL the power in SL!
[2008/11/25 7:52] ***AP***: yay!
[2008/11/25 7:53] ***RM*** nods my agreement
[2008/11/25 7:53] ***RM2*** smiles.
[2008/11/25 7:53] ***AP***: subs rule!
[2008/11/25 7:53] ***TV***: smiles and nods
[2008/11/25 7:53] ***AP***: rah rah!
[2008/11/25 7:53] ***IM***: Or at least all the power that can be given away.
[2008/11/25 7:53] ***IM***: and taken back.
[2008/11/25 7:53] Pirate Russell: ***BH*** can decide that I've pissed her off for the last time. she can take off her collar and mute Me, ban Me from her land, file all kinds of abuse reports, etc. And NOTHING I can do about it!
[2008/11/25 7:54] ***AP***: oh Rich, if you still want punishment, you just have to misbehave - there aint a rule that can't be broke...giggles
[2008/11/25 7:55] Pirate Russell: Everything in these relationships boils down to COMMUNICATION.
[2008/11/25 7:55] ***RM*** laughs...I am TRYING to be a better Masters ***AP***, not a sub
[2008/11/25 7:55] ***TV***: I have a sub who, with a sweet smile on her face, intentionally misbehaves so i'll spank her
[2008/11/25 7:56] ***AP***: but, you will soon learn lol ooops sorry ....fiddles with her new boots and their fancy lights
[2008/11/25 7:56] Pirate Russell: Negotiating a relationship, discussing why a safeword was used, or why someone might be offline..
[2008/11/25 7:57] ***AP***: ***TV***, she probably wants the spanking, and it's not really a punishment
[2008/11/25 7:57] ***TV***: smiles. Of course ***AP***. And we both knopw the game
[2008/11/25 7:57] ***IM***: Are there any "assumed rules?" Like assume your partner doesn't like child play or scat or something that would be illegal unless otherwise said? Generally accepted rules, if You will?
[2008/11/25 7:58] ***TV***: It may be dangerous to "assume" limits
[2008/11/25 7:58] ***TV***: best to discuss them
[2008/11/25 7:58] Pirate Russell: No, I would hope that there were 'legal limits' but no, I no people that like LOTS of things I don't care for
[2008/11/25 7:58] ***TV***: amen
[2008/11/25 7:59] Pirate Russell: ANd woudn't know until they whined about not having their head shaved, or something that 'most' folk think odd
[2008/11/25 7:59] ***AP***: shrugs and whistles...so you will have to find another suitlable way of punishing her ...rights the urge giggle
[2008/11/25 8:00] Pirate Russell: I found the eay to punish ***AP***
[2008/11/25 8:00] Pirate Russell: er way
[2008/11/25 8:00] ***AP***: catching up....(Fights***) no, never have any assumed rules, if you dont know,
[2008/11/25 8:00] ***AP***: ask
[2008/11/25 8:00] ***AP***: er what?
[2008/11/25 8:00] ***AP***: miss
[2008/11/25 8:00] ***AP***: sweetie chops
[2008/11/25 8:00] Pirate Russell: How's girl's talk coming?
[2008/11/25 8:00] ***IM*** giggles
[2008/11/25 8:01] ***AP***: hmmmmmm, well, i havent act-ually started writing anything down yet....
[2008/11/25 8:01] ***AP***: but it's all in my head
[2008/11/25 8:01] ***AP***: :)
[2008/11/25 8:01] ***AP***: just need to get the two together
[2008/11/25 8:01] Pirate Russell: Ok, hun, do you even remember the topic?
[2008/11/25 8:01] ***AP***: :P
[2008/11/25 8:01] ***AP***: yes!
[2008/11/25 8:01] Pirate Russell: Uh, oh, if it's in girl's head, it's GONE FOREVER!
[2008/11/25 8:01] ***AP***: thinks....
[2008/11/25 8:01] ***AP***: ponders
[2008/11/25 8:02] ***IM*** laughs
[2008/11/25 8:02] ***AP***: it will come to me
[2008/11/25 8:02] ***AP***: um....one min...
[2008/11/25 8:02] Pirate Russell: Anyway, any more questions, comments, or DIRTY JOKES?
[2008/11/25 8:02] ***AP***: subspace!
[2008/11/25 8:02] ***AP***: oh i know a few dirty jokes
[2008/11/25 8:02] Pirate Russell: he he
[2008/11/25 8:03] ***AP***: but i'll save them for my lecture - winkz
[2008/11/25 8:03] ***TV***: I think what this all boils down to here is consent, communication, mutual respect and affection.
[2008/11/25 8:03] ***IM*** nods
[2008/11/25 8:03] ***AP***: happy smile, yes, all those nice things that make you go all gooey
[2008/11/25 8:03] Pirate Russell: ANd the affection is optional in a SHORT term beating
[2008/11/25 8:03] Pirate Russell: he he
[2008/11/25 8:03] ***TV***: gooey? PERKS
[2008/11/25 8:04] ***AP***: well if its on you list of things that you need - yes! lol
[2008/11/25 8:04] ***AP***: nod, at ***TV***
[2008/11/25 8:04] ***AP***: very perky
[2008/11/25 8:04] ***TV***: I have to leave. WEll done Pirate. applause
[2008/11/25 8:04] Pirate Russell: Well then, that's the end for today, don't forget http://collegeofkink.blogspot.com
[2008/11/25 8:04] ***AP***: i've not been gagged i'm afk brb
[2008/11/25 8:05] ***RM***: I agree ***TV***, but I am still hazy about the power and its uses. I think that one of the attrative things about a Dom is the power they exusde, and many subs appear to be drawn tom it
[2008/11/25 8:05] ***AP***: TRADER!
[2008/11/25 8:05] ***AP***: oops
[2008/11/25 8:05] ***AP***: sorry
[2008/11/25 8:05] Pirate Russell: Ok, class..............
[2008/11/25 8:05] Pirate Russell: ... ... ... . .. ... .. . .....
[2008/11/25 8:06] ***IM***: girl knows she gives herself because it makes her feel more complete, and so girl wants to give that to someone who has the power to properly use it.
[2008/11/25 8:06] Pirate Russell: ..........................................................................................DISMISSED!
[2008/11/25 8:06] Pirate Russell looks around for this LUCKY "someone"
[2008/11/25 8:06] ***AP***: back just in time to thank you Miss
[2008/11/25 8:06] Pirate Russell: he he
[2008/11/25 8:06] ***IM***: so girl agrees, Sir ***RM***. It's a big part of it.
[2008/11/25 8:06] ***RM***: me nods...thanks ***IM***...ad thank you Pirate
[2008/11/25 8:06] ***AP***: lucky someone? did i miss something?
[2008/11/25 8:06] ***IM*** giggles
[2008/11/25 8:07] ***KB***: thank you for the class, Miss.
[2008/11/25 8:07] Pirate Russell: As I said at the start, this is a topic that I STARTED teaching because of, so no thanks necessary, but appreciated
[2008/11/25 8:07] ***KC***: thank You Miss Pirate for a great discussion
[2008/11/25 8:07] Pirate Russell: !hug ***BH***
[2008/11/25 8:07] Pirate gives ***BH*** a big hug.
[2008/11/25 8:08] Pirate Russell: Mmmmmm
[2008/11/25 8:08] ***AP***: Yes, thank you Miss - smiles
[2008/11/25 8:08] ***BH*** hugs tightly

The Morning After: Aftercare in Second Life - 7/24/08

[7:12] Zealot Benmergui: Welcome A/all to the House of V’s College of Kink. My name is Zealot Benmergui, Baron BardHaven and I will be your host today. Some of you may know me from lecturing here at House of V and other locations around the grid. Before we get started, I wish to put to rest a recent rumor here and now. There is no truth to the reports that I am have been short-listed, as far as I know, for President Elect Obama’s new cabinet level “Secretary of Deviance and Unnatural Acts” post. He and I have never discussed political matters, we only meet for casual sex.
[7:12] ***ML***: many thanks Sir.
[7:12] ***RV***: hahaha
[7:13] Zealot Benmergui: And some times he doesn;t even thank me.
[7:13] ***IM***: That is casual.
[7:13] ***VS***: now that I find hard to believe
[7:13] ***ML*** laughs
[7:13] ***CV***: lol
[7:13] ***RV***: how rude
[7:13] Zealot Benmergui: The topic for today is "The Morning After: Aftercare in Second Life". We will be discussing what exactly Aftercare is, and how it relates to the SL D/s experience, both for Doms and subs. Please note that for the purpose of clarity, I will tend to use “she” to refer to a submissive and “he” to refer to a Dominant, but either can be of any gender. Your humble lecturer WILL accept tips, but they must be paid to me directly, if you are so inclined, thank you.
[7:13] ***ML*** thinks it weird, Obama always sends a thank you card to her
[7:14] Zealot Benmergui stares hard at Miss ***ML*** then sobs
[7:14] ***CV***: lol
[7:14] ***RV***: lol
[7:14] Zealot Benmergui: In my vague, diffident wanderings, Aftercare is one of the issues I most often hear confusion about from both subs and Doms in SL. After Puberty and Spontaneous Combustion, Aftercare seems to be the biggest mystery many Doms and subs in SL face…and understandably so. Many people don’t much understand it in RL, where it is far more straightforward…or at least more meaty.
[7:15] Zealot Benmergui: In fact, the most common form of the question is subs saying "What about aftercare?" and Doms saying "Huh??"
[7:16] Zealot Benmergui: In its most basic definition, Aftercare is what happens after sex. In mainstream relationships this is a very subjective thing, which has greater or lesser importance depending on the people involved. In a mainstream relationship aftercare may be talking, cuddling, paying, fighting, more sex, smoking a cigarette, calling your husband and explaining the meeting ran longer then you thought it would, searching for lost change to buy more gin, more sex, body hair macramé…almost anything goes really, including saying “Thank you very much, please don’t contact me again. I have a restraining order.” and running like hell.
[7:16] Zealot Benmergui: Did I mention "more sex"?
[7:16] ***RV***: lsughd
[7:16] ***ML***: lol
[7:16] ***RV***: laughs too
[7:17] ***CV***: lol
[7:17] ***IM***: oh
[7:17] ***ML***: after GLOW ie : after CARE?
[7:17] Zealot Benmergui: no...afterCARE
[7:18] Zealot Benmergui: after glow is the feeling of contentment, endorfin flush, or munchies after orgasm...aftercare is what you actually DO to bring the act to a close, emotionally and physically.
[7:18] ***ML***: hmmmm.
[7:18] Xandra Burner is Offline
[7:18] ***ML***: ahhhh a
[7:18] ***ML***: by gov!
[7:18] Zealot Benmergui: As I said, it rarely plays a distinct part in mainstream sex.
[7:18] ***ML***: bujov i think shes got it!
[7:18] Zealot Benmergui: D/s and BDSM is a different story, or should be.
[7:19] ***RV***: nods
[7:19] ***IM***: So is it before or after you spit?
[7:19] ***ML***: lmao
[7:19] Zealot Benmergui: After you spit Miss ***IM***, and before you say you feel pregnant
[7:20] ***ML***: the act of him wiping yer chin off perhaps?
[7:20] ***ML***: ouch
[7:20] ***CV***: lol
[7:20] Zealot Benmergui: Or it can be at the same time you tell him brother was not as long, but thicker.
[7:20] Zealot Benmergui: *him HIS
[7:21] Zealot Benmergui: In D/s or BDSM relationships however, Aftercare takes on much more importance than in most vanilla encounters. For one thing, there are often practical matters to be attended to…bindings to be opened, clasps to be undone, equipment to be tended, bleeding to be staunched. You can’t just pass the wetwipes and get dressed, by and large. It is very, very important that care is taken in real world D/s about safety and health after a scene, and the best way to do it is as a part of the act itself. Often wounds or aches that were ignored, or simply not felt during the scene need to be taken care of or identified. Use that chance to sooth and inspect the submissive’s body as a chance to bond more deeply, to explore new nuances.
[7:22] Zealot Benmergui: It can be a very gentle, emotional time and shouldn;t be rushed through or skipped if possible..unless of course the police are already talking to the hotel manager
[7:22] ***CV***: lol
[7:22] Zealot Benmergui: Beyond the physical needs of Aftercare, there is even a greater need for emotional aftercare. A time to shed whatever role playing aspects we wore during the scene. Time for the cruel prison guard or slutty little teen ager to be put aside and sub and Dom to relate to each other again as themselves. Of course, if you happen to actually BE a cruel prison guard or slutty teen ager, then game on. Often issues raised and/or experienced during a scene need to be discussed or compared, even if the discussion is simply “FUCK THAT WAS HAWTTTT”. Aftercare should always take place right after a scene, giving both Dom and sub a chance to come back up or decompress…but it can continue over several discussions or meetings if the scene was very intense or complex.
[7:23] ***ML***: wouldnt inspection of ones s - and the UNrestarint of them led in fact to another scene? quite often?
[7:23] Zealot Benmergui: It can, certainly...
[7:23] Zealot Benmergui: as I said, sometimes Aftercare can be more sex
[7:23] Zealot Benmergui: I did mention that yes?
[7:23] ***IM***: Yup
[7:23] ***CV***: yes..lol
[7:23] Zealot Benmergui: Thank god
[7:24] Zealot Benmergui: However, all that is in real life...how can it pertain to the limitations we experience in SL during scenes? How much can we really do in “virtual” aftercare and how much is needed. Well, obviously the physical requirements are diminished. There are still some, depending on what the sub may have been told to do in the scene, but usually there is little chance of injury, unless it is a VERY strict Dom, who told her to do something like “Pound your head against the tabletop” Of course, that requires an unusually stupid sub as well, but that is for another lecture.
[7:25] Zealot Benmergui: While physical elements of aftercare are less important in SL, the emotional elements become even more so. Too often scenes in SL end with “[6:49] MasterMagnum Pluckyfeather is Offline”….or “[6:50] TodaysSlut Honeyslurper: umm..my Master just logged on..so…like…gotta close this alt…smooch luv ya…don’t say anything ‘k?” Even more often, they just…end. Everyone poses orgasm, a little awkward silence, some chit chat, then a statement about something needing to be done somewhere…kid’s to feed, work to do, flobberworms to walk…and everyone is gone. Somewhat anticlimactic at best…deeply depressing at worst.
[7:26] Zealot Benmergui: If a submissive has reacted strongly to the scene, or easily slips into subspace, often times even online aftercare is essential, otherwise they can feel lost or unsettled for days or worse. How then should Aftercare be handled in SL. First and foremost…time. Spend time once the scene has ended, even mostly silent in an IM or on voice chat…just being together, just so she knows you are there, and this time matters.
[7:26] ***IM*** nods
[7:27] Zealot Benmergui: Quiet conversation is good, even posing soothing touches and caresses, shifting into a cuddle pose...it is amazing how easily the mind can relate the virtual to the real...and how comforting those things can be.
[7:27] Zealot Benmergui: After all, if you were just arroused, excited and made to orgasm due to mainly virtual stimulation, why can;t you then be comforted by them as well?
[7:28] ***ML***: indeed
[7:28] Zealot Benmergui: As you both become more able to think and whatnot, discussions of the scene itself work very very here...Not only do they foster communication and bind you closer, but they help to make you both feel involved, help you to understand and absorb what just happened.
[7:29] Zealot Benmergui: Ask each other what you liekd best, what worked, what didn;t..ask questions...tell them what moved you.
[7:29] Zealot Benmergui: Think about how you can expand what you did, what avenues you want to explore next
[7:30] Zealot Benmergui: Picture yourself laying in bed, after sex...think of how easy and flowing those conversations are when you feel close to the person, when the sex was rewarding and you feel safe and loved...that is what virtual Aftercare should awaken in both sub and Dom
[7:31] Zealot Benmergui: We tend to mention Communication during just about everylecture, but it is the essense of Aftercare...Aftercare can help you communicate, and good communication leads to excellent Aftercare
[7:32] Zealot Benmergui: I know this may mark me as something of a hypersenstive nancyboy...but bbeyond the grunting and clenching and making a mess...I often enjoy Aftercare more then the sex itself...or at least equally.
[7:33] ***RV***: ditto
[7:33] Zealot Benmergui: It can be, and should be...pure emotion...and after all isn;t that one of the most powerful draws of D/s...the vibrancy of the emotion, the feelings of safety, or surrender, of connection.
[7:33] ***HA***: better sensitive than the opposite!!
[7:33] Zealot Benmergui: All of that is part and parcel of Aftercare
[7:34] Zealot Benmergui: Don;t allow the fact that you are in Sl to cause you to give short shrift to what happens after a scene...embrace it, and if you are with someone who thinks that after a scene you close the IM window....educate them of choose better lovers.
[7:34] Zealot Benmergui: *or
[7:35] Zealot Benmergui: You will find you enjoy what happens here more, that you are a better sub or Dom for it...and it will improve things for your partner as well.
[7:35] Zealot Benmergui: Now then, as always, I open the floor for discussion, questions and panties throwing.
[7:36] ***CV***: lol..didn't think people wore them anymore.
[7:36] Zealot Benmergui: Not once I started my collection...no
[7:36] ***ML***: so the AFTER care is kinda as important as the FOREplay and also often times MOST intimate?
[7:37] Zealot Benmergui: I know it is a common SL streotype, but how many of you have actually encountered the "Wham bam thank you girl" sort of DOm?
[7:37] ***HA***: Yes!!
[7:37] Zealot Benmergui: Absolutely Miss ***ML***
[7:38] Zealot Benmergui: I would even say it is more important then foreplay
[7:39] Zealot Benmergui: Can anyone relate an experience where Aftercare worked properly, or that they especially liled?
[7:39] ***ML***: This girl thinks that perhaps the "AFTERcare aspect of the intimate relations is due to the fact that to experience that it may in fact substantiate the "commitment" aspect involved and many may not be as comfortable with that aspect?
[7:40] ***ML***: * is neglected*
[7:40] Zealot Benmergui: That could be a fair assessment..it certainly binds the people...but I find it is actually just as important in casual relationships
[7:40] Zealot Benmergui: Where with a long term love, it has great meaning and force..sitting around in bed after sex talking with someone you just like can be a great deal of fun
[7:41] ***RV***: i had a very intense snuff scene with my Master once .... i was really shaken by it (in a good way). The fact that he stayed, we talked, we made love w/o the trappings of d/s ... that was essential considering the intensity of the scene
[7:41] ***ML***: true1 this girl consistantly "hugs" nearly all of her sl friends regularly!
[7:41] Zealot Benmergui: after all, you no longer have to worry about if they will like you ot not, or if you will perform well...all that's done..now you can just talk about bad movies and gossip and laugh and enjoy being together, no secrets
[7:42] Zealot Benmergui: Yes ***RV***, that is a very good point...
[7:42] Zealot Benmergui: Aftercare is often stripped of the whole D/s veneer
[7:42] Zealot Benmergui: which is a very good thing..where you can talk, relate, even make love again, just as people, with none of the weight of Dom and sub
[7:42] ***ML***: do you think that a D can experience aftercare as fruitfully then Sir Zealot?
[7:43] Zealot Benmergui: Absolutely
[7:43] ***IM*** nods
[7:43] Zealot Benmergui: put yourselfin the shoes of a Dom for a second...
[7:43] ***ML***: I mean if in that moment in the relation they would in a sense be stripped of their D ness?
[7:43] Zealot Benmergui: to laugh with a girl you just had sex with, talk, find out what she liked, how she feels...that is so incredibly powerful, it makes you feel incredibly alive
[7:44] ***ML***: hmmmmm
[7:44] Zealot Benmergui: To a degree...but that is part of the attraction as well...The girl just came at your command, touch to feel less Dom at that moment, no matter how open and soft you are
[7:44] ***CV***: What if she hated it, then how do you feel?
[7:44] Zealot Benmergui: *tough
[7:45] ***IM***: *Expressing* less of the dom side doesn't make someone suddnly not a dom, any more than standing up for what you believe in makes one less of a sub.
[7:45] Zealot Benmergui: A very good question Miss ***CV***
[7:45] ***RV***: that's when aftercare is even more important
[7:45] Zealot Benmergui: What is the importance of Aftercare after a scene that went horribly wrong, or just bad sex?
[7:45] Zealot Benmergui: Exactly...
[7:45] Zealot Benmergui: you need to discuss, understand what went wrong...
[7:46] Zealot Benmergui: In a long term relationship you need to see what you need to work on, what factors didn;t click...you need to be totally honest about it
[7:46] Half Short is Offline
[7:46] Sami Sass is Online
[7:46] Zealot Benmergui: in a casual encounter, you want to know what they didn;t like, so you don;t do it the next time, or with the next woman
[7:46] ***ML***: many thanks ***RV***
[7:46] ***VS***: hm
[7:47] ***VS***: The next woman may loke whatever it was, though
[7:47] ***VS***: *like
[7:47] Zealot Benmergui: People tend to assume that sex is an instinct.
[7:48] Zealot Benmergui: It is possible Miss ***VS***...but it is good to know anyway, and usually, it will be clear when something is just "not to her tastes" and when it is "WHAT THE FUCK WERE YOU THINKING USING THE CLAW HAMMER????"
[7:49] ***CV***: lol
[7:49] ***VS***: True, that is what I always mean by that, indeed!
[7:49] ***ML***: lol
[7:49] Zealot Benmergui: It is a time to compare notes, to each become better, to prolong what was good and fix what was bad...
[7:50] Zealot Benmergui: and to feel loved
[7:50] Zealot Benmergui: It doesn;t have to be a soulmate kind of thing, or forever and ever...but even in casual sex, it is nice to feel that human binding, one to the other, that is in Aftercare
[7:50] ***ML*** sighs
[7:50] ***ML***: ahhhhhhhh
[7:51] ***ML***: and orange juice
[7:51] ***RV***: (brb)
[7:51] Zealot Benmergui: Vitimin C is always important..need to hydrate
[7:51] ***ML***: tis odd that that is what it is called"aftercare"
[7:51] Zealot Benmergui: What would be a better term?
[7:51] ***ML***: reminds this girl of the etirement homes of elderly...lol
[7:52] Zealot Benmergui: Many Doms would draw the line at it being called "Snugglebunnies"
[7:52] ***ML***: *retirement
[7:52] ***ML***: after Glowment
[7:52] Zealot Benmergui: that could be good, but has a sort of Lord of the Rings feeling
[7:52] ***ML***: takes adjective glow to verb ment?
[7:52] Lucrezia Tairov: Post-intake exit interview.
[7:52] Zealot Benmergui: Frodo looked up at Aragorn, deep in his Afterglowment
[7:53] ***ML***: better than a metamucil fiber ....lol
[7:53] Zealot Benmergui: Post ejaculation Emotional Simulation
[7:53] ***ML***: Pees?
[7:53] ***ML***: as grabbed his cane and tripped over his walker - in his rush to get to the front bingo table

Sex, Lies and Role Playing: Truth and Fiction in Online D/s - 11/20/08

[0:37] Zealot Benmergui: Welcome A/all to the House of V’s College of Kink. My name is Zealot Benmergui, Baron BardHaven and I will be your host today. Some of you may know me from lecturing here at House of V and other locations around the grid, or from my role in the educational cartoon “Jesus says ‘Good Night’: Wet Dreams and YOU” in which I voiced the characters of Sperm #7 and “Daddy’s New Pal”.
[0:37] ***SA*** cheers at Z
[0:37] ***SM***: WOOHOO Z
[0:37] ***CI***: .....:::::::::::::::::::APPLAUSE::::::::::::::::::::.....
[0:37] ***CI***: .....:::::::::::::::::::APPLAUSE::::::::::::::::::::.....
[0:37] Zealot Benmergui: Hello Ling dear, hello Sean
[0:37] ***SM*** nodds to the crowd....."we love Z"
[0:37] ***MM***: lol
[0:38] ***MM***: behave
[0:38] Zealot Benmergui: Yes yes, now sit down
[0:38] ***SA***: yes mom
[0:38] Zealot Benmergui: The topic for today is "Sex, Lies and Role Playing: Truth and Fiction in Online D/s". We will be discussing the different approaches and mindsets that can be found in Online D/s and examine ways to balance them, or at least to find the approach that is best for you. Please note that for the purpose of clarity, I will tend to use “she” to refer to a submissive and “he” to refer to a Dominant, but either can be of any gender. Your humble lecturer WILL accept tips, but they must be paid to me directly, if you are so inclined, thank you.
[0:38] ***SA***: can i wait til i see people forst .. i dont want to sit in anyones lap
[0:38] Zealot Benmergui: Ling, you liar
[0:38] Zealot Benmergui: Before we get too far into today’s topic, I wish to examine the term “Role Playing” a little bit. It is one of the most misunderstood phrases one can find in SL D/s, surpassed only by “Exclusive” and “No, I don’t want to cyber with you, you spaz”. When in doubt about such things, it is always best to go to the experts. According to the Random House Dictionary, there are two definitions of role playing. The first they list is: “A method of instruction or psychotherapy aimed at changing attitudes and behavior, in which participants act out designated roles relevant to real-life situations”.
[0:39] Zealot Benmergui: Hmmm…that has some interesting possibilities, but let’s look at the second definition. “The modifying of a person's behavior to accord with a desired personal image, as to impress others or conform to a particular environment.” MUCH closer I think to the standard usage in SL, and has the added benefit of sounding so much more socially acceptable then “Likes to pretend he is a Pink Dark Jedi Werewolf with two cybernetic arms and a prick the size of a Mercedes”.
[0:39] ***MM***: rofl
[0:40] ***IM*** giggles
[0:40] ***mM***: hahaha
[0:40] Zealot Benmergui: The first definition, while accurate, goes into elements that are past the bounds of this lecture, but which we can examine at another time, mainly the thereputic aspects of online D/s and role playing in general...for now, we'll focus on the second definition.
[0:41] Zealot Benmergui: It's easier to talk smack about the second definition.
[0:41] Zealot Benmergui: So, role playing is modifying your behavior to fit a desired personal image, or a specific environment? Hell, we ALL role play then, in many if not all aspects of our RL. High School for most people, by that definition, is one long horrifyingly complex role play. So is work. So is almost every activity that involves us interacting with other people, not to mention some activities that involve dogs or horses, or just ourselves and the latest copy of High Heels Quarterly. Life itself could be seen as a series of role plays.
[0:42] Zealot Benmergui: Or a long, horrifying dream..touch to tell which some times.
[0:42] Zealot Benmergui: So why then do people become so concerned about Role Playing in online D/s? After all, consider the fact that most online couples are NOT in the same physical space while they are together in SL (though I have known some that DO log on from two computers, on opposite sides of the room, and then cyber…but they SCARE me). At least a certain amount of role play is required to have any sort of relationship at all. Do, not everyone likes to role play that they are Gorean Mugluck trainer out on a bender, or a giant turtle named Stuart, or the opposite gender…but we are all playing at least some small element of a character when we are in second life.
[0:44] Zealot Benmergui: We have to take as a given that what we describe in words, or act out on a pose ball, is going to be seen and interpreted by the person we are with no different then if they were watching a film...the difference is of course that what they are seeing here is interactive...still role playing, but with ties to reality that aren't foundin most D & D sessions.
[0:45] Zealot Benmergui: It is easy to forget that however when one is immersed in an intense emotional connection in Second Life. It seems just perfectly natural that the object of your undying affection is a furry snake that walks on two legs and wears a Def Leppard t-shirt. That kind of thing is accepted as a given. The problem comes in when emotions get involved. Many people have trouble understanding HOW the emotions you feel about your bipedal angora snake can be at all real. After all, it is a ROLE PLAYING GAME. Isn’t attaching emotions of love and lust to such a think sort of insane. How is this different then the freaks who change their legal name to Obi-Wan Aragorn Shwartzman?
[0:45] ***CI***: lol
[0:46] ***CI***: @def leopard t shirt
[0:46] Zealot Benmergui: Of course, there will always be those who take advantage of the virtual nature of online worlds. Pretending to be someone in RL that they aren’t, or using the concept of role playing and avatars to excuse acting like an ass, but then, people tend to do that in the real world all the time as well, with no excuse that they are playing the role of Mistress Silkythighs Mancrusher, Free Woman of Gor. Human interaction on any level is about presenting a certain face or aspect of your personality…in SL, we just do that more obviously..and with more talkative genitals.
[0:47] ***MM***: mmm genitals
[0:47] ***CI*** drouls like Homer Simpson
[0:47] ***MM*** hands ***CI*** a bib
[0:47] ***IM***: You mean they don't really talk!?!
[0:48] ***CI*** ties the bib to her thigh
[0:48] Zealot Benmergui: How then does one deal with this conflict...the fact that online D/s tends to be real emotions in a fictional reality? Can it be done? Many people say we can;t, and are deluding ourselves to think this is anything more then a game...like jerking off during a game of Clue. Sick and sad, no matter how freakin Hot Miss Scarlett looks.
[0:48] ***CI***: lmao
[0:49] ***CI***: she is pretty hot though
[0:49] Zealot Benmergui: Mine does Miss ***IM***, but only to me..and usually tells me to KILL.
[0:50] Zealot Benmergui: I have found that there is usually no way to convince people who don;t get it about the power or relevency to emotions you feel here. It is like teaching a dog to wear a hat. You can, but they don;t like it..and will eventually just slobber on it anyway
[0:51] Zealot Benmergui: Best to focus on how you yourself can navigate the fine line between role playing and emotional reality in Online D/s.
[0:51] Zealot Benmergui: First and foremost, it is important to keep in mind that there IS a line.
[0:52] Zealot Benmergui: Many relationships in SL ARE just about the role play...Someone just has a thing for being told what to do by a man with 4 ***CF***t horns wearing a sailor suit.
[0:53] ***CI***: lol
[0:53] Zealot Benmergui: That is great, and wonderful, and perfectly viable...never talk down the value of such things just for the fun of it...noone HAS to fill their online relationships with emotion and angst and whatnot....there is a place in SL for sheer wanking material.
[0:53] ***AK*** looks around for someone with horns
[0:54] Zealot Benmergui: TO say such things don;t matter or are wrong is just as dangerous to assume that ALL the people you meet are just as emotionally connected to this as you are.
[0:54] ***SS***R raises hand
[0:54] ***CI*** starts a bitch fight
[0:55] ***CI*** laughs
[0:55] Zealot Benmergui: Which is the next essential rule to keep in mind..once you have FOUND the fine line between RP and RL...be sure that you and the person you are with cross it together...to many relationships end up with one person in love and the other just playing a game.
[0:55] ***SM***: mmm bitch fight
[0:55] Zealot Benmergui: Yes Miss ***SS***?
[0:55] ***SS***: But, some forget they are not playing with a computer, but that the avatar they are with IS in fact another human being on the other end.
[0:55] ***IM*** nods
[0:55] Zealot Benmergui: EXACTLY Miss ***SS***
[0:56] Zealot Benmergui: That is the problem that comes upo when one is playing a game, while the other is taking everything here verty seriously...They are both right, for themselves...but they are not in Sync.
[0:57] ***CI***: the same happens in rl
[0:57] Zealot Benmergui: It is essential that before you allow yourself to give yourself over to emotion, you make sure that the target of your ardor isn;t just here because their WoW server is down.
[0:57] ***MM*** laughs
[0:57] ***CI***: lol...good point
[0:57] Zealot Benmergui: Of course Miss ***CI***, but it is easier to miss here, and far less likely to be discoivered until it is too late, and someone gets hurt.
[0:57] ***AK***: You are right ***CI***, its just harder to find someone with 4 ***CF***t horns
[0:58] Zealot Benmergui scribbles a number on a card and hands it to ***AK***...
[0:58] ***CI***: lol
[0:58] Zealot Benmergui: Call this, after 2 Am, ask for Omar.
[0:58] ***CI***: LMFAO
[0:58] ***AK***: WOOOOT :)
[0:59] ***AP***: Yes, a real person with real emotions
[0:59] Zealot Benmergui: Once you have defined the limnits of the role play, and are reasonably certain that the other person is also connected to the emotion, and not just the game....this is where the real caution needs to begin.
[0:59] Zealot Benmergui: It is also where the role play can become tremendously useful
[1:00] Zealot Benmergui: Commedians will use smoking as a way to time their jokes...gag, smoke during laughter, another gag...
[1:01] Zealot Benmergui: Porn stars will use the dialog about wanting to become a supermodel along with their 4 sorority sisters to break up the fucking...
[1:01] ***MM***: mmm porn
[1:01] ***AP***: What do you used Sir?
[1:01] ***CI***: i usually fast forward that part
[1:01] Zealot Benmergui: Role playing can be used to slow down and focus online relationshiops, which can very easily run wild due to the immediacy of the medium
[1:01] Zealot Benmergui: Mainly I use Mali saying Mmmm Cock
[1:02] ***MM***: ROFL
[1:02] ***AP***: *use (It's early!) lol thanks
[1:02] ***CI*** grins...could we get a sample of that?
[1:02] ***MM***: mmm cock
[1:02] ***AK***: As part beast everyone needs to wait for the cycle of the 2nd full moon after sulstice before i can Masterbate :)
[1:02] Zealot Benmergui: We all know how fast things move online, and how you can go from meeting someone to being their soulmate in about 10 minutes
[1:03] ***CI***: yeah
[1:03] Zealot Benmergui: less if you aren;t wearing to many prims
[1:03] ***AK***: Thanks god for his prims
[1:03] Zealot Benmergui: Role playing can be used to impose a certain amount of leisure..caution..it gives you something to do...
[1:03] Zealot Benmergui: It can give you a way to get to know the other person in a more convnetional way then the normal brainsucking that happens in SL
[1:04] ***SS***: And some of us lust roleplay
[1:04] Zealot Benmergui: Exactly...which is the last rule which I wished to discuss
[1:04] Zealot Benmergui: Embrace the role play..enjoy it, take it for what it is worth...
[1:05] Zealot Benmergui: How many other times will you have a chance to have a wild passionate affair with a 2 ***CF***t tall Marmoset named stanley?
[1:05] ***SS***: In SL, several
[1:05] ***AK***: WHo told you Z, i demand to know. !!!!
[1:05] Zealot Benmergui: when you actually like the person playing the maromoset, maybe even love them..that just makes the fur between your teeth worthwhile
[1:05] ***AP***: giggles
[1:06] Zealot Benmergui: To sum things up a little bit....
[1:06] ***CI*** spits out some left over fur
[1:06] Zealot Benmergui: Role playing is an essxential part of all human interaction, but especially in SL.
[1:06] ***MM*** starts handing out lamb pictures
[1:06] Zealot Benmergui: This should not be denied or fought against, but accepted and used.
[1:06] ***AK***: Sheep pics for Sean, he likes em mature
[1:06] ***SM***: mmm sheep
[1:06] ***CI***: lol
[1:07] Zealot Benmergui: I like to use four rules or guidelines when discussing the juxtaposition of role playing with real emotions...
[1:07] Zealot Benmergui: 1) Make sure you have a clear idea where the role play stops and yourheart begins...
[1:07] Zealot Benmergui: 2) Make sure that the other person is viewing thinsg the same way as you are
[1:08] Zealot Benmergui: 3) Use the role play as an element of your relationship, using it to get to know one another better and explore things you normally couldn;t in rl
[1:09] Zealot Benmergui: and 4) Embrace the role play for itself, don;t view it as a negative, but an increidly positive in a relationship online.,.,.a thing that can be and should be very very empowering, removing limits we normally face
[1:09] ***CI***: amen to that
[1:09] ***AK***: hmmm im horny now.
[1:09] ***AP***: agrees
[1:10] Zealot Benmergui: Remember that role play is a wonderful thing, as long as everyone KNOW what is role play, and what is real...as long as that is kept clear, and you are careful with who you love and when...then you will have a great time...and likely get some Vampire Jedi tail at the same time.
[1:10] Zealot Benmergui: Now then, I will as always open the floor to questions, discussions, and belly dancing.
[1:10] ***CI***: lol
[1:11] ***AP***: That i would like to see, Sir
[1:11] ***mM***: :)
[1:11] ***SA***: mm yea Z .... shake it for us!
[1:11] ***MM***: LOL
[1:11] ***AP***: giggles
[1:11] Zealot Benmergui: I suppose I shouldn;t mention belly dancing and that the lecturer accepts tips directly in the same sentence
[1:11] ***SA*** flicks a 20 at Z
[1:11] Zealot Benmergui: but shit, I just did
[1:11] ***SM*** nodds..." we love Z"
[1:11] ***mM***: no perhaps you shouldn't,, lol
[1:12] Zealot Benmergui: How many of you have been in virtual worlds OTHER then Sl?
[1:12] ***SS***: I have
[1:12] ***mM***: not me
[1:12] ***CF*** raise hand
[1:12] Torakoun Sands: I have
[1:12] Zealot Benmergui: Which, if I may ask?
[1:12] ***CI***: i have not
[1:12] ***SS***: WoW, AoC
[1:12] ***SA***: ive played RL occasionally
[1:12] Zealot Benmergui: And did you find the nature of role play there to be different then here?
[1:12] ***SM***: I live in a make believe world
[1:12] ***CI***: i thougght it was like "The Sims"...that's how it was advertised to me
[1:12] ***SS***: Aye
[1:12] ***SM***: called RL
[1:12] Torakoun Sands: FF11
[1:12] ***CF***: Active Worlds, Cyber Worlds, Plastic Planet, There.com, VZones, Worlds Inc... I suppose VOS counts.
[1:13] Zealot Benmergui: Sean, you ARE a make believe world, we are just your delusions
[1:13] ZHAO2 (BASE): Touched.
[1:13] ***CF***: Pretty much anything that existed since 1995 and had some flair of 3D to it. Though I tried 2D.
[1:13] ***IM***: IRC?
[1:13] ***SM***: mmm delusions
[1:13] ***AK***: Anyone here been on Sociolotron?
[1:13] ***MM*** slaps ***AK***
[1:13] ***SS***: There, nothing is taken seriously. Here, as you aren't busy slaying critters to get your spending cash, you actually have time to be social
[1:13] ***CF***: IRC is a chat, not a world. :x
[1:13] ***AD***: thank you Zealot, I have learnt much today, but I need to go now
[1:13] ***SA*** notices how Z took her money and still hasnt danced ......
[1:14] ***SM*** starts chant "dance, dance,dance,dance"
[1:14] ***AP***: Whispers to ***SA***: you need to tuck the money in his cleavage!
[1:14] ***CI***: dancre dance dance dance
[1:14] Zealot Benmergui: NO promises were made..now Sean, the grownups are talking
[1:14] ***SA***: oooooooOOOOOoooo
[1:14] ***SM***: mmm cleavage
[1:14] ***SA***: ouch Z
[1:14] ***SA***: ouch!
[1:14] ***IM***: actually some of the IRC is a world, like some of the Gor places, it's just a text interface.
[1:15] ***SM***: sorry Dad
[1:15] ***CF***: Well you can RP everywhere. That doesnt turn it into a world.
[1:15] Zealot Benmergui grumbles and shimmeys slightly
[1:15] ***MM*** moans
[1:15] ***AP***: lol
[1:15] ***CI*** giggles
[1:15] ***SA*** cheers!!!!!
[1:15] ***SM*** gigglefits
[1:15] ***CI***: .....:::::::::::::::::::APPLAUSE::::::::::::::::::::.....
[1:15] ***CI***: .....:::::::::::::::::::APPLAUSE::::::::::::::::::::.....
[1:15] ***CI***: .....:::::::::::::::::::APPLAUSE::::::::::::::::::::.....
[1:15] ***SA*** chants ... Take it off take it off!
[1:15] ***CI***: take it off!
[1:15] ***CI***: lol
[1:15] Zealot Benmergui: True...many people role play in rl, without ever knowing it
[1:16] ***SA***: yea
[1:16] ***IM***: everyone roleplays in RL.
[1:16] ***CF***: In that regard i'd treat every single corporate environment as a virtual world designed for RPing
[1:16] ***SA***: A roleplays a guy irl and doesnt know it
[1:16] Zealot Benmergui: Miss ***CF***, I know you as someone who has given a lot of thought to the nature of Virtual Worlds...do you find that the emotional elements in Sl are the same in most worlds, or does SL tend to be more relationship based?
[1:16] ***CF***: Except missions involve meetings and your quests are for meeting the deadline and not get fired
[1:17] Zealot Benmergui: nods
[1:17] ***CF***: People are people - there's always been a heavy relationship element. But I noticed that There.com and SecondLife have it more then most of the other creativity oriented virtual worlds
[1:17] ***CF***: Mostly because our avatars are now far more capable of expressing things then the older systems
[1:17] ***DB***: slips in quietly waves
[1:17] ***DB***: smiles
[1:17] ***CI***: who made that point before...about sl having no real objective as a game...
[1:17] Zealot Benmergui: Well, I know that coming to Sl from other worlds, the lack of a goal or unifying concept made it far more focused on personal interaction.
[1:17] ***CI***: it's a total social environment
[1:18] ***IM*** nods
[1:18] ***CF***: Active Worlds also lacked a goal and was very creativity oriented. But it had far less of a relationship thing going in there
[1:18] Zealot Benmergui: No missions to run, no way to win, or advance
[1:18] ***CF***: I think that the ability to express yourself better with your avatar made a diference - even if just psycologically
[1:18] Zealot Benmergui: What was lacking, or what did Sl have?
[1:18] Zealot Benmergui: Why do you think that was Miss ***CF***?
[1:18] ***SS***: I did. I came from goaloriented MMORPGs, and for the most part, they seemed to be much more about flings than real relationships
[1:19] ***CF***: In Active Worlds, you could not customize your avatar. Each place you entered had its own list of avatars the owner put up for you to choose from for that moment
[1:19] ***CF***: There.com and SL made a big difference in letting you make your own unique appearence
[1:19] ***SS***: That and it was not easy to trust letting loose in those, as WoW and SWG had a lot of underage players
[1:19] Zealot Benmergui: Nods...you could define who you were better....
[1:19] ***AP***: admires ***AK***' new horns!
[1:19] ***CF***: SecondLife is still the only world where I can recognize my friends from screenshots alone - without name titles
[1:19] ***AK*** thanks the fair human ***AP***.
[1:20] ***CI***: good point
[1:20] ***CF***: In most cases, face shots are enough. Since most of us managed to make unique faces, or heads atleast.
[1:20] Zealot Benmergui: Nods...you will very rarely find two avatars that look the same, unless they are playing a "character", like Popeye
[1:20] ***AK*** feels ***AP***'s loveing touch as she strokes his long hard horns.
[1:20] ***CF***: That makes everything feel much more alive
[1:20] ***IM*** has faceblindness.
[1:20] ***CI***: or they are naughty friends playing twins
[1:20] ***CI*** giggles
[1:20] Zealot Benmergui: Do you think that also encourages the emotional nature of life here...the always popular "drama"?
[1:21] ***MM***: no...that's present in the mmo's too
[1:21] ***CI***: i have a gripe about that
[1:21] ***AP*** was getting a coffee - but has caught up, ***AK*** lol
[1:21] ***MM***: you're just usually arguing about loot instead of sex
[1:21] ***CF***: Well, you may be able to express your identity better, btu like MMO's, in the end - SecondLife is on the internets. That lets people bring out the sides they usually supress.
[1:21] ***CI***: can we define "drama?"
[1:21] Zealot Benmergui: Loot..sex...there's a difference?
[1:22] ***SS***: Well, I find that there tends to be about the same as in MMO's. Difference being this world is large enough you can sidestep a good ammount of drama here, while other places you just can't
[1:22] ***AK***: Dont forget forced. YUMMY
[1:22] Zealot Benmergui: You can certainly do things here, and act in ways you would never do in RL.
[1:22] ***CF***: e.g. most people wouldnt appriciate seeing me sitting naked in the middle of a discussion event.
[1:22] ***CF***: But here its nothing different.
[1:22] ***IM***: true being able to silence someone by meerly walking away does add some realism.
[1:22] ***SM***: what are u saying...cant i wear a dress in RL
[1:22] ***AK***: ***SA*** wake up
[1:22] Zealot Benmergui: The social rules are different due to the virtual nature
[1:22] ***SM***: ohhh...shee s awake
[1:23] ***SS***: That depends ***CF***. There's clubs all over the US where one can take classes in the nude on BDSM. There's one in Seattle, for instance
[1:23] ***VS***: But its more than that
[1:23] Zealot Benmergui: That carries through I find into relationships..we take risks and push boundaries we never would in rl...or at least not as quickly
[1:23] ***CF***: ***SS*** - exactly my point: You have to go to special places. Here I'm just running around in the nude 90% of the time.
[1:23] ***CF***: Saves me money on cloths
[1:23] ***AP***: giggles and looks
[1:23] ***IM*** giggles
[1:23] ***SS***: But i LIKE having a thousand outfits
[1:23] Zealot Benmergui: Also here you can sit down to have a serious business discussion to a man in a Master Chief suit.
[1:24] ***AP***: oh yes, i love to shop here!
[1:24] Zealot Benmergui: it isn;t viewed as a big deal..
[1:24] ***CF***: Well then thats your thing. :x
[1:24] ***SS***: Well, I have to have something to rip of and throw on the floor before I grab sexy redheads and have my way with them
[1:24] ***SA*** throws a spitball at A
[1:24] Zealot Benmergui: Which is another good point Miss ***CF***..because of the oencouraged...you can find someone on the grid who is into almost anything.
[1:24] ***SM*** winks at A
[1:25] ***IM***: SL has gotten big enough that everyone can find his kith. there is everything somewhere here.
[1:25] ***SS***: Thogh for some, it's damn hard to find
[1:25] ***CF***: Except for casual non-sexual social places that dont try to sell you stuff ;D
[1:26] Zealot Benmergui: And that ledas to greater emotional connection....you are more likely to find someon that you feel "understands" you
[1:26] ***IM*** laughs out loud
[1:26] ***SS***: There's such a place?
[1:26] ***CF***: I'm still searching.
[1:26] Zealot Benmergui: There was one, it closed a year ago
[1:26] ***CI***: lol
[1:26] ***SS***: Lack of interest, i do believe :P
[1:26] ***AP***: not enough shops
[1:26] Zealot Benmergui: People just sat there silently while cybering in IM
[1:27] ***IM***: Hahaha
[1:27] ***CF***: I dont wanna dance or sex out, or shop. I just wanna go somewhere and have an intelligent conversation on random thingies. That puts me at a minority.
[1:27] ***CF***: So for now I keep bouncing from one discussion event to another
[1:27] ***IM***: Well, it is hard when one is naked.
[1:27] ***CF***: You get used to it. :3
[1:27] ***AP***: oh i think we all want intelligent convo too - well maybe not all of us lol
[1:27] ***IM***: yeah, but the people one wants to talk to don't, hehe
[1:28] ***CF***: :<
[1:28] ***AP***: those noobs that walk around with their cocks out for one thing...dont care much for convo's
[1:28] ***MM***: thank god
[1:28] Zealot Benmergui: I totally agree Miss ***CF***...by and large it requires a lot of filering to find people you wish to talk to or spend time with..in RL, it can beassumed that in certain places, you will find such things..While in SL, there is nowhere where someone won;t say "Hey, you hott, we make sex now..OOOOO me see yer titties..RAWR"
[1:28] ***VS***: well, poor things
[1:28] ***VS***: they will get there
[1:28] ***IM*** giggles
[1:28] ***CF***: Fine. Ok. I get the hint.
[1:28] ***CF***: I'll make a Nerd Bar.
[1:28] ***SS***: I get that while at my modeling job
[1:29] Zealot Benmergui: OK, that sounds like it would be hot...
[1:30] Zealot Benmergui: That there is a lack at times of intelligent conversation in Sl can;t be denied...which also tends to make the role play element both more important in relationships,. but also more destructive.
[1:30] Zealot Benmergui: It can be way to easy to fall into "Character", even when the person you are with isn;t role playing in an emotional sense.
[1:31] Zealot Benmergui: Second Lifeencourages such things, right down to the way Linden markets the game
[1:31] Zealot Benmergui: while really, for all the upset, sex and relationships are what tends to drive new membership
[1:31] ***IM***: All the mentors were saying there was a huge influx of people after the story of the divorce because the guy was having sex with a virtual prostitute.
[1:31] Zealot Benmergui: consider the recent tale of the couple in Britain that are divorcing due to infidelity, so called, in SL
[1:32] ***IM***: hehe
[1:32] Zealot Benmergui: exactly...and there has been
[1:32] ***AP***: lol
[1:32] Zealot Benmergui: I first came to Sl for sex, silly to deny it..I even wrote about it for the recent Blogger Mix and Match
[1:32] ***CF***: Its true that every time there's a sex scandal about SL in the news, people flood in rather then out.
[1:32] ***IM*** nods
[1:32] ***VS***: Yes, but 90% of them never come back after 1 hour
[1:33] ***AP***: They do indeed, great adverting for SL
[1:33] ***CF***: When they realize they have to work to look good. :(
[1:33] Zealot Benmergui: I found a lot more here, obviously..or not so obviouslyu...but still...sex sells is a truism, no matter if you are online or in meat space
[1:33] ***MM***: well I don't think there's anything wrong with coming here just for sex, as long as you're honest about it
[1:33] ***VS***: why the others stay is interesting to consider
[1:33] ***AK***: So anyone up for some sex?
[1:33] ***CF***: I came here since i'm obsessed with virtual worlds. The ability to create in virtual spaces, share, communicate, etc'. Then after awhile I realized I can get naked and no one will be mad at me. So.
[1:34] ***VS*** laughs
[1:34] ***SM*** raises his hand
[1:34] Zealot Benmergui: I have found, and in this way it is relevant to the lecture, that people stay mainly due to the people they meet
[1:34] ***IM***: Oh, true
[1:34] ***SA***: and by raises his hand .. he means bends over
[1:34] ***AK***: grab my horns Sean Lets go.
[1:35] Zealot Benmergui: Well, I have always held there are four main types of people who remain in SL...
[1:35] ***IM*** nods
[1:35] Zealot Benmergui: The Gamer, here to play
[1:35] Zealot Benmergui: The Early Adopter, here for the technical elements
[1:35] Zealot Benmergui: The Socialogist, here for Sl as a social experiment
[1:36] ***CI***: when i first came to sl...i thought this was a game described to me a lot like "The Sims." Probably much like most...i immeadiately got wrapped up in the hedonisic nature of this world. Also, coinidentally, i'm a pervert. But...i still had no idea about the emotional connections that you can form with another soul through role play. In the begining...i didn't even give out my real picture...i gave out my hotter rl sister's picture. I used it as an element to make myself appear more sexy in the context of sexual role play......and online BDSM has some pretty intense sexual roleplay.
[1:36] Zealot Benmergui: and the Alternatist, people who are seeking things, such as relationships, that they either can;t in the real world, or that they wish to enhance due to the virtual nature of SL
[1:36] ***AP***: What about the business man/woman?
[1:36] ***CI***: until i thought i fell in love
[1:37] Zealot Benmergui: Designers and crators tend to be a mix of different categories
[1:37] ***CI***: my fisrt "real" relationship
[1:37] ***CI***: in sl
[1:37] ***CI***: long time ago now lol
[1:37] Zealot Benmergui: nods to Miss ***CI***
[1:37] Zealot Benmergui: yes, many of us have a certain situation or person that causes our view of things here to change
[1:37] ***CI***: in sl years...what is the conversion on that, btw?
[1:37] Zealot Benmergui: after that, the genie can;t go back in the bottle
[1:37] ***IM***: Oh true, Sir.
[1:38] Zealot Benmergui: I tend to count each month here as 6 irl
[1:38] ***AP***: As hard as you try to push him back in
[1:38] ***CI***: yes...
[1:38] ***VS***: but... what does that mean, the genie --
[1:39] ***VS***: ?
[1:39] Zealot Benmergui: We each have our own genie to push, Miss ***VS***..how we push him is up to us
[1:39] ***AP***: thinks Sir looks like a genie...still a white puffy cloud to her
[1:39] ***IM***: girl pulls hers.
[1:39] Zealot Benmergui: Really?
[1:40] ***AP***: yes, Sir, if i hadnt of come in late, i would have told you
[1:40] ***AP***: but that's prob just my comp
[1:40] Zealot Benmergui: I hate being cloudy,...m,ake sme feel like I am not really fresh
[1:40] ***mM***: Thanks Z.. very interesting class... bye all
[1:40] ***AP***: well i cant smell you from here, so i think you're fine Sir
[1:41] Zealot Benmergui: Well, we not I think have a firmer idea of why Sl tends to be more relationship driven then some other virtual worlds...but what ways can we use that to our advantage...would someone like to discuss a positive Role play they had in Sl, sex does not need to be included
[1:42] Zealot Benmergui: Or perhaps that is another lecture completely
[1:42] ***AP***: Meeting friends and staying good friends - away from SL is positive, Sir
[1:42] ***AK***: Daddy, Daughter play has never failed or confused matters with me. Neither has forced or rape play.
[1:43] ***SA*** sticks a finger in one of A's pipes
[1:43] ***AK***: As for the RP sim I AM LEGEND that was fucking scary man, couldnt sleep for a week
[1:43] Zealot Benmergui: I will bring this to a close now...next lecture here at House of V for me will be Monday Morning 7 Am Slt time...called "The Morning AfterL After care in SL"
[1:43] ***AP***: LOL And then there is the Matrix!
[1:43] ***IM***: Getting back to roleplay, girl thinks there is a very close relation to theater, both in the fourth wall and suspending disbelief. Here we have places we simply don't look when we are in world. Also we accept the furries and snakes with legs as normal, suspending disbelief. That makes us much more succeptable to allowing our emotions to be in play.
[1:43] Zealot Benmergui: my lecture schedule is now up on my blog at http://bardhaven.wordpress.com
[1:44] ***SA***: hmmm .. dont you just toss them 10L and say Kthanxbai?
[1:44] Zealot Benmergui: not shutting down the discussion, just getting the business out of the way

When Should a submissive say 'No' - 11/20/08

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Goddess%20Diana/34/77/24

[2008/11/21 13:06] Pirate Russell: Ok, please take all cross talk to IM, and all collar, etc commands to the secondary channels!
[2008/11/21 13:06] Pirate Russell: Welcome to House of V's College of Kink! As most of y'all know, My name is Pirate Russell, Head Mistress of the College, and today's instructor. I have been in SL for 3 years, a lesbian Domme, the entire time.
[2008/11/21 13:06] Pirate Russell: For any that need to leave early, all transcripts can be found at http://collegeofkink.blogspot.com
[2008/11/21 13:07] Pirate Russell: Today's class is about 'When Should a submissive say 'No'"
[2008/11/21 13:07] Pirate Russell: Many situations come up in BDSM, both RL and in SL, that can be potentially dangerous if not done competently and correctly. In both, negotiation before, and communication during and after is paramount.
[2008/11/21 13:07] Pirate Russell: Today We are addressing the communication side of this primarily.
[2008/11/21 13:07] Pirate Russell: As a submissive you've given most or all of the control over to the Dominant when a scene starts.
[2008/11/21 13:07] Pirate Russell: Unfortunately... sometimes the Dominant is not always as careful or knowledgeable as a boy or girl might hope. And mistakes do happen.
[2008/11/21 13:08] Pirate Russell: Yes, the word, "No", itself is very negative to some and for some Dominants is a starndard rule to never be used. So, let's start with that.
[2008/11/21 13:08] Pirate Russell: Saying the word 'NO' is not the primary focus, but the reasons a submissive would need or want to say no, no matter how it is put into words.
[2008/11/21 13:08] Pirate Russell: As respect is very key within a D/s relationship, am sure that most D/s relationships will have a knowledge or rule on how to GO ABOUT saying "No'.
[2008/11/21 13:08] Pirate Russell: The question of should a submissive say 'NO' begins with HOW a submissive should say no if the need arises.
[2008/11/21 13:09] Pirate Russell: "Please, Mistress, " is one of the ways to address a Dominant that has said the word 'No' iteself is not allowed, or you fear saying so on your own.
[2008/11/21 13:09] Pirate Russell: Also to the submissives, I would like to explain that simply saying 'NO' also does not help from the standpoint that there is no real communication by just saying 'NO' without an explanation.
[2008/11/21 13:09] Pirate Russell: you chose to be their submissive, and should learn how to communicate best with your Dominant.
[2008/11/21 13:10] Pirate Russell: 'NO' can be taken as rebellion, a challenge and disrespectful. Often times, is disregarded in urgency because it IS lacking real communication.
[2008/11/21 13:10] Pirate Russell: Traffic light safewords (red for full stop, yellow for caution) seem to help cover some of these circumstances. Then you can scream 'no' all you like. ;-)
[2008/11/21 13:10] Pirate Russell: No matter the form of address, yes a submissive has a right to say no, BUT in whatever form is best to address it with their Dominant, if the word itself is denied, but ALWAYS include communication.
[2008/11/21 13:10] Pirate Russell: Yes, I said the "C" word EARLY this week! ie: "Please, Mistress, No. That is breaching girl's limit" or "Please, Mistress, No, that is hurting too much.
[2008/11/21 13:11] Pirate Russell: I would also like to point out that using safewords is important in times of danger. include that in your statement to stop a scene or to open communication, so that the plea is NOT taken as part of the scene. This is part of safe, sane, and consensual.
[2008/11/21 13:11] Pirate Russell: Some of us like to push limits and may not know ahead of time what we can handle, playing with limits is intense, and haphazard communication strategies are dangerous if you're going that far.
[2008/11/21 13:11] Pirate Russell: A Dominant should ask the submissive often during a scene how they are doing, especially if speaking is forbidden, and especially if the submissives is in sub-space!
[2008/11/21 13:11] Pirate Russell: Green is "great, keep going, Master/Mistress!"
[2008/11/21 13:12] Pirate Russell: Yellow is "am uncomfortable or unsure, maybe need to slow down, Master/Mistress."
[2008/11/21 13:12] Pirate Russell: Red is "STOP & RELEASE" PERIOD. and open the communication!
[2008/11/21 13:12] Pirate Russell: If gagged, use a bell PLEASE. Green is 3 rings Yellow is 2 rings Red is 1 ring **why this order? because in panic or pain....one ring may be all one can muster!
[2008/11/21 13:13] Pirate Russell: Even in SL, when people are in deep RP....this can be used.
[2008/11/21 13:13] Pirate Russell: There are many dominants that refuse safe words even....and that is one of the priorities of awareness in the saying no
[2008/11/21 13:13] Pirate Russell: Personally, any Dominant that refuses a safe word, or refuses open communication, even in a Total Power Exchange relationship, is NOT a true dominant and does not care for their submissives or their safety.
[2008/11/21 13:13] Pirate Russell: Even when gagged, a submissive should have a SOUND signal to alert the Dominant that the submissive is in danger. Eye or hand signals are NOT enough. Remember the bell. Even when the hands are bound. BUT that is ANOTHER class *giggles*
[2008/11/21 13:13] Pirate Russell: If there is a real need to stop through any reason, a safeword really is the thing to say which should be followed by discussion about how the slave is.
[2008/11/21 13:14] ***BH***'s collar (chest): ***BH*** 's ZPToys ready!
[2008/11/21 13:14] Pirate Russell: This should include what did the Dominant do wrong or what the submissive experienced to cause the stoppage of the scene.
[2008/11/21 13:14] Pirate Russell: It isn't always the Dominant in the wrong, it is sometimes something personal with the submissive. Limits can change, do change!
[2008/11/21 13:15] Pirate Russell: If a submissive is in IMMEDIATE danger or their limits are being breached, they should be able to say NO in whatever shape or form that it needs to be spoken.
[2008/11/21 13:15] Pirate Russell: The absence of a willingness to have a safeword or to dicuss it may be a very useful indicator for any sub when considering a potential Dominant
[2008/11/21 13:15] Pirate Russell: Especially in SL, a sub CAN deny their Master/Mistresses wish, however it is not constructive to just refuse without an explaination
[2008/11/21 13:16] Pirate Russell: Neither a submissive nor a Dominant should do anything, just because one or the other like to do it, if that behavior is highly unsafe.
[2008/11/21 13:16] Pirate Russell: The mental or physical health of either or both individuals is being or might be harmed. THIS situation demands then to proceed to stopping a scene, questioning and discussing.
[2008/11/21 13:16] Pirate Russell: Sometimes just questioning will be enough to clear things up and the scene can progress to a great ending.
[2008/11/21 13:17] Pirate Russell: Mistakes happen though, a rope might twist in a squirm and cut off circulation. It isn't anyone's fault, just something that happens, not a case of a poor Dominant, or submissive.
[2008/11/21 13:17] Pirate Russell: A "scene review" should always be part of the play. Whether there was a safeword used or not. Always, and a submissive should be able to say No there too.
[2008/11/21 13:17] Pirate Russell: submissives, remember, Though We may be your Dominant, We ARE NOT mind readers. It is your responsibility to say something if things are going south.
[2008/11/21 13:18] bunny's pet: Katelyn is allowed to edit or rez
[2008/11/21 13:18] Pirate Russell: Also remember, there is very little difference in the facial expressions of being in pain and being in ecstacy. *chuckles*, ESPECIALLY in SL.
[2008/11/21 13:18] Pirate Russell: The point is that taking on a sub is a great opportunity to take care of a person's deep, inner needs and curiousity's. The rules should be set ahead of time, and a scene-review later is is important too.
[2008/11/21 13:19] Pirate Russell: Ok, please take all cross talk to IM, and all collar, etc commands to the secondary channels!
[2008/11/21 13:19] Pirate Russell: EEp, going to copy and paste for the end, hang on one
[2008/11/21 13:20] Pirate Russell: Using a safe word, calling a scene to stop, opening communication, or in a discussion, saying No, should not be taken as telling the Dominant what to do or not to do or topping from the bottom.
[2008/11/21 13:20] Pirate Russell: It is the responsibility of both the Dominant and the submissive to communicate why, what the fear is, or if there is a true safety danger, Both should respect that. Safe, Sane and Consensual is key in any D/s relationship.
[2008/11/21 13:21] Pirate Russell: All transcripts can be found at http://collegeofkink.blogspot.com
[2008/11/21 13:21] Pirate Russell: College of Kink classes Monday & Tuesday @ 7a, Thursday @ Midnight:30 and 10a and Friday 1p.
[2008/11/21 13:21] Pirate Russell: Or check Search/Events and type in College
[2008/11/21 13:21] Pirate Russell: Comments, Questions?
[2008/11/21 13:21] ***SS***: Aye.
[2008/11/21 13:22] ***SS***: I've found as one that practices IRL, Red is hard to make out, depending upon the conditions of the scene
[2008/11/21 13:23] Pirate Russell: I can understand that, I'm sure customized safe words, that are 'important' to the participants are better
[2008/11/21 13:23] Pirate Russell is "only" a Cyber-Domme
[2008/11/21 13:23] ***SS***: I usually use what i was taught to use. Mayday, as one can be gagged and still be understood
[2008/11/21 13:24] Pirate Russell: Yes, and I used to work with police with radios, multi sylable words are usually better understood, too!
[2008/11/21 13:24] Pirate Russell: Very good point, BIRTHDAY GIRL!
[2008/11/21 13:24] ***SS*** smiles
[2008/11/21 13:25] ***SS***: Also, I know from both sides of the fence that sometimes a sub can feel intimidated or even try to push past when to safeword
[2008/11/21 13:25] Pirate Russell: Maybe W/we all need to give Sirilania some birthday spanks, after class? he he
[2008/11/21 13:26] Pirate Russell: Yes that pesky "Desire to Please" thing, huh?
[2008/11/21 13:26] ***IM***: it is hard to even think about safewording. as a sub we want to trust our Domme and it does feel disrespectful to "say no" in any form.
[2008/11/21 13:26] ***AB***: so a sub should never feel intimated?
[2008/11/21 13:26] ***KC*** nods
[2008/11/21 13:26] ***SS***: Aye. it goes back to the fact Dominants are not mind readers
[2008/11/21 13:27] Pirate Russell: First ,***IM***, I TELL My girls to say no, in My very first rule....
[2008/11/21 13:27] ***SS***: Well, the issue is the fact that a GOOD Dominant would rather you tell us something is wrong, so we can correct it
[2008/11/21 13:27] Pirate Russell: Rule 1b) Since this is a "game", if you're not having fun, tell Me, we'll do something else, or we'll play separately for a while, or for good. But please TELL ME!
[2008/11/21 13:28] Pirate Russell: That's right after RL comes first, and were I a RL Domme, it would be the same thing
[2008/11/21 13:29] Pirate Russell: And yes, ***SS***, I can't read My hubby of 7yrs mind, in RL, I sure can't do it thru the plain text on a computer
[2008/11/21 13:29] ***IM***: It's not just about hard limits. Soft limits get pushed all the time to help us grow as subs. So some discomfort is expected. But the line of when to say no is hard to see, it can go by so fast.
[2008/11/21 13:30] ***SS***: Aye, it can be hard sometimes
[2008/11/21 13:30] Pirate Russell: Well, as girl, bunny, ***BH***, and ***KC*** know, I want it to be FUN, when your scene becomes un fun, call it!!
[2008/11/21 13:30] ***SS***: That's why the panic safeword is good. Lets you stop play IMMEDIATELY, and get things cooled down and discussed
[2008/11/21 13:31] Pirate Russell: I do know that fun for ***BH*** is being beaten, and for Me fun is beating her, so fun IS subjective
[2008/11/21 13:31] ***IM*** giggles
[2008/11/21 13:31] ***BH*** smiles
[2008/11/21 13:31] Pirate Russell: And just because "Red" is called that doesn't mean the night's over, either. Restarts ARE legal in BDSM! he he
[2008/11/21 13:31] ***SS***: Sometimes don't even need a full restart
[2008/11/21 13:32] ***SS***: Just rewind and do over where it started getting into problems
[2008/11/21 13:32] Pirate Russell: Right, a pick it up 1 step back ,and do XYZ instead of ABC
[2008/11/21 13:32] Pirate Russell: SpeakEasy HUD detaching...
[2008/11/21 13:33] ***SS***: But it is important in BDSM to speak up when things get too much
[2008/11/21 13:33] ***IM***: Another problem is when girls enter subspace. girls aren't aware that lines are even being crossed then. And by the time girl has come down, it's way too late.
[2008/11/21 13:33] Pirate Russell: Yes, and that will never be the same spot as last time, or next time. Even submissives are human.... renzor notwithstanding... he he
[2008/11/21 13:33] ***SS***: Even if everything but one lil thing is perfect, that one little thing could turn a great scene into one of the worst you've ever had
[2008/11/21 13:34] ***IM*** nods to Miss ***SS***
[2008/11/21 13:34] Pirate Russell has screwed up many a-scene
[2008/11/21 13:34] Pirate Russell: and as for sub-space, ***IM*** I agree, that's why Dominants should ASK repeatedly if the submissive is doing ok
[2008/11/21 13:35] ***SS***: Aye. constant safety checks. Can even be wovn into the scene itself
[2008/11/21 13:35] Pirate Russell: As Zealot said at My last class, there's IS Dom(me)-space, too. it makes him more aware of what's up with his sub
[2008/11/21 13:36] ***SS***: Aye, every sub I tell that to is surprised there is such a thing as Dommespace
[2008/11/21 13:36] Pirate Russell has only hit Dom(me) space once, and it was an odd thing, but I was hyper aware
[2008/11/21 13:37] ***SS***: Aye. I've hit it a few times
[2008/11/21 13:38] Pirate Russell: And it was here in SL, never experienced ANYthing like it in RL
[2008/11/21 13:38] ***SS***: And no, it's actually easier to describe subspace than Dommespace
[2008/11/21 13:38] Pirate Russell: or more accurately as the reslut of a RL episode
[2008/11/21 13:39] ***SS***: But, still, as every class I've attended points out. COMMUNICATE
[2008/11/21 13:39] ***KC*** nods her head enthusiastically
[2008/11/21 13:40] Pirate Russell: ***SS***, as My girls over there, and the regulars will tell you, I PREACH the "C" word EVERY class, no matter what!
[2008/11/21 13:41] ***SS***: Well, I've seen it the biggest root cause of problems, and the biggest complaint. It cannot be emphasised enough
[2008/11/21 13:41] Pirate Russell: Well, I took this job for one reason, that's to let subbies know they have R I G H T S!
[2008/11/21 13:41] Pirate Russell: The communication thing has popped up in EVERY Class
[2008/11/21 13:42] ***IM*** nods
[2008/11/21 13:42] Pirate Russell: I've been doing this since what, July, 2x a week?
[2008/11/21 13:42] ***KC*** nods again
[2008/11/21 13:42] ***SS***: tis one thing that annoys me. I get girls that come to me, then when i try to explain they have rights, I get a blank stare as if I spoke Martian or something
[2008/11/21 13:42] Pirate Russell: BTW, while I'm thinking about it, NO class next Fri, it's Thanksgiving weekend in the US, and My kids will be here, hence, no SL for Pirate. 'till they go to bed.... he he
[2008/11/21 13:43] ***IM***: And the importance of communicating has come up in almost every conversation about D/s relationships outside of class this girl has had.
[2008/11/21 13:43] Pirate Russell: Are your girls avail for class next tues abut 7aslt?
[2008/11/21 13:44] Pirate Russell: baby, EVERY releationship, D/s or Vanilla, RL or SL, takes MASSIVE COMMUNICATION!
[2008/11/21 13:44] ***IM*** nods
[2008/11/21 13:44] ***KC*** nods
[2008/11/21 13:45] ***SS***: Even friendships require it
[2008/11/21 13:45] Pirate Russell: Even most "Enemy-ship" do!
[2008/11/21 13:45] ***SS***: but with what we do, it is the singe most important thing
[2008/11/21 13:45] ***IM***: there is no relationship without communication.
[2008/11/21 13:45] Pirate Russell: How many times have we wonderd "Why am I pissed at him?"
[2008/11/21 13:45] ***KC*** agrees with ***IM***
[2008/11/21 13:47] ***SS***: Not just because we are in a relationship either. Some things we do can cause harm, and if it's causing harm, we need to know it
[2008/11/21 13:47] ***BH*** nods
[2008/11/21 13:47] Pirate Russell: Yes, a Dominant can see that something physically hurts SOMEtimes, but the emotional hurt is MUCH more important!
[2008/11/21 13:48] ***IM***: Is there a trick to staying aware enough to see that one's limits are being reached in a scene and that it's time to say "no?" Haveing an observer was mentioned last time.
[2008/11/21 13:48] Pirate Russell: Yes, a chaperone, or referee can help with that
[2008/11/21 13:48] ***SS***: Observer, play forms for all around, safety checks
[2008/11/21 13:48] ***IM***: And it's all emotional hurt here, and much harder to see.
[2008/11/21 13:49] ***IM***: play forms, Miss?
[2008/11/21 13:49] ***BH***: q&a cards, sis
[2008/11/21 13:49] ***IM***: Oh.
[2008/11/21 13:49] ***SS***: I actually use a BDSM checklist for people I play with, to make sure I'm hitting the right spots in a scene, and avoiding the bad spots
[2008/11/21 13:50] ***SS***: RL and SL, actually
[2008/11/21 13:50] ***IM***: Okay, girl sees.
[2008/11/21 13:50] ***BH*** has filled out some loooong ones lol
[2008/11/21 13:50] Pirate Russell: he he
[2008/11/21 13:50] ***KC***: does Miss mean the huge list of likes, dislikes and limits
[2008/11/21 13:50] ***SS***: Aye.
[2008/11/21 13:51] Pirate Russell: As a Domme, they're a pain to wade thru, though, I've actually taken some to a spreadsheet so I can order them by the "like" value
[2008/11/21 13:51] ***BH***: one of the SL cards floating around came from a RL SM website. girl recognised the questions
[2008/11/21 13:51] ***IM*** nods
[2008/11/21 13:51] ***SS***: Well, i've trained to it, and have regular reviews
[2008/11/21 13:52] ***SS***: Even revamped and switched forms as the needs go differently
[2008/11/21 13:53] ***BH***: it needs to be a fluid thing - tastes change all the time
[2008/11/21 13:53] ***IM***: Of course it's still the subs resonsiblity to watch for things and say no.
[2008/11/21 13:54] ***SS***: Aye. I use it as a rough guide, adjusting as I see and gauge reactions. It is not a concrete thing
[2008/11/21 13:54] Pirate Russell: The responsibility belongs to U/us both, love
[2008/11/21 13:54] Pirate Russell: BECAUSE of subspace
[2008/11/21 13:54] ***SS***: A sub may not even be aware of an issue because of subspace
[2008/11/21 13:55] ***IM***: exactly.
[2008/11/21 13:55] ***SS***: This is why the Dominant also has responsibility
[2008/11/21 13:55] ***BH***: the best scenes are where there's a relationship between sub and Dom/me were the Dom/me knows their victim well enough to KNOW what they can handle
[2008/11/21 13:55] Pirate Russell: That's why the Dominant, or Observer needs to be aware (if they're used)
[2008/11/21 13:55] ***IM***: That's why girl was wondering how to stay aware, and react fast enough to prevent getting hurt.
[2008/11/21 13:55] ***SS***: We're trusted by the submissive to take them into that high, floaty place, safely.
[2008/11/21 13:56] ***IM*** nods
[2008/11/21 13:56] ***SS***: But again, that's why the safety checks
[2008/11/21 13:57] Pirate Russell: That's part of that integrety and trust that We must earn from y'all!
[2008/11/21 13:57] ***BH***: not too many tho - girl's been in scenes where the phrase "i'm fine, just bloody hit me" has crossed her mind more than once
[2008/11/21 13:57] ***IM*** laughs out loud
[2008/11/21 13:58] ***BH***: (not with Mistress, tho lol)
[2008/11/21 13:58] ***SS***: Well, a safety check can be as simple as reaffirming the sub's safeword
[2008/11/21 13:58] Pirate Russell puts Her quirt back, but I understand, bat
[2008/11/21 13:59] Pirate Russell: ***SS***, can a safety check 'ruin' subspace?
[2008/11/21 13:59] Pirate Russell has no experience with subspace, so I really dunno.
[2008/11/21 13:59] ***SS***: Sometimes it can, if one does too many, and especially if they stop play to do them
[2008/11/21 14:00] ***BH*** nods
[2008/11/21 14:00] ***IM***: Not as much as crossing a limit, though.
[2008/11/21 14:00] Pirate Russell: That makes DOLLARS to me (A lot of sense)
[2008/11/21 14:00] ***SS***: Sometimes a simple, "Are you enjoying yourself, girl?" and expecting a shake or nod is all it takes
[2008/11/21 14:01] ***BH***: depends, sis..if the aim of the scene was to cross a limit and hike the sub into space, then safety checks can be ntrusive...that's when you rely on the Dom/me's knowledge of you and your trust in Them is all important
[2008/11/21 14:01] Pirate Russell has busted a limit once or twice, and I KNOW it's not any fun for the submissive, it's NO fun for a decent Dominant, either!
[2008/11/21 14:02] ***SS***: I HATE HATE HATE stepping over a limit by accident
[2008/11/21 14:03] Pirate Russell: me too, I did it once, won't go into detal, but it was like 6months ago, and it STILL HURTS, and it was an SL limit, I didn't injure anyone
[2008/11/21 14:03] ***SS***: But, sometimes things can creshendo just wrong, and cause an unexpected limit
[2008/11/21 14:03] Pirate Russell: Absolutely, and what's cool today, might be WAY past a hard limit tomorrow
[2008/11/21 14:03] ***BH***: aye, one badly placed whack is all it takes.
[2008/11/21 14:03] Pirate Russell: that's why the COMMUNICATION is paramount
[2008/11/21 14:03] ***SS***: Actually had that happen to me this week, pirate
[2008/11/21 14:04] Pirate Russell: So sorry, hun
[2008/11/21 14:05] ***SS***: Well, the girl didn't call her safeword, and after the scene did not communicate to me about it. So, again, communication is key
[2008/11/21 14:05] Pirate Russell: Yes, yes YES!
[2008/11/21 14:05] ***IM*** nods
[2008/11/21 14:06] Pirate Russell: subbies, remember from the D/s 101, class that there is a difference between Submisison and Abuse, and between Hurt and Injure!
[2008/11/21 14:07] ***SS*** nods
[2008/11/21 14:08] Pirate Russell: Well, our time's about up, is there anyone that has anything else?
[2008/11/21 14:08] ***KC*** shakes her head
[2008/11/21 14:09] Pirate Russell: Ok, gilrs strip for the gang bang, and class dismissed!
[2008/11/21 14:09] Pirate Russell whispers: LOL
[2008/11/21 14:10] Pirate Russell: LOL
[2008/11/21 14:10] ***KC*** giggles
[2008/11/21 14:10] ***BH***: /e gigles
[2008/11/21 14:10] ***KC***: great disscussion Miss
[2008/11/21 14:11] Pirate Russell: Thanks, hun, every time I think about dropping to one class a week, or to do different topics at each class, I end up with such different discussions, I cn'at do it
[2008/11/21 14:11] ***KC*** smiles
[2008/11/21 14:11] ***IM*** nods. Some of these classes cover too much for a single hour.
[2008/11/21 14:12] ***KC*** is very glad
[2008/11/21 14:12] ***SS***: Maybe more classes are needed
[2008/11/21 14:12] Pirate Russell: Yes, ***SS***, we ended up with a DISCUSSION of subspace last Tues, and I got a subby student gonna give a talk on just that
[2008/11/21 14:13] ***SS***: Please, just call me ***SS***
[2008/11/21 14:13] Pirate Russell: Ok, I'll do it ***SS***!
[2008/11/21 14:13] Pirate Russell: he he
[2008/11/21 14:14] ***SS*** giggles
[2008/11/21 14:14] Pirate Russell: !hug ***SS***
[2008/11/21 14:14] HelloMultiTool-v7 (hug/kiss/goto/etc): You have offered to hug ***SS***.
[2008/11/21 14:14] Pirate gives ***SS*** a big hug.
[2008/11/21 14:14] Pirate Russell: Dont' make it another year before we trip over one another again!
[2008/11/21 14:14] ***VT***: It's the first time I attended this class and I found it very enlightening!
[2008/11/21 14:14] ***SS***: You kidding? I'm a gold member
[2008/11/21 14:14] ***VT***: Thank you very much Miss Pirate!
[2008/11/21 14:15] ***KC***: thanks so much Miss
[2008/11/21 14:15] Pirate Russell: I'm an officer and a Gold Member, though the club is usually too laggy
[2008/11/21 14:15] ***IM***: Thank You, Miss ***SS***
[2008/11/21 14:15] Pirate Russell: My pleasure ***VT***, and ***KC***
[2008/11/21 14:15] ***SS***: Thank you ***IM***

When Should a submissive say 'No' - 11/18/08

[2008/11/18 7:11] Pirate Russell: Ok, please take all cross talk to IM, and all collar, etc commands to the secondary channels!
[2008/11/18 7:12] Pirate Russell: Welcome to House of V's College of Kink! As most of y'all know, My name is Pirate Russell, Head Mistress of the College, and today's instructor. I have been in SL for 3 years, a lesbian Domme, the entire time.
[2008/11/18 7:12] Pirate Russell: For any that need to leave early, all transcripts can be found at http://collegeofkink.blogspot.com
[2008/11/18 7:12] Pirate Russell: Today's class is about 'When Should a submissive say 'No'"
[2008/11/18 7:12] Pirate Russell: Many situations come up in BDSM, both RL and in SL, that can be potentially dangerous if not done competently and correctly. In both, negotiation before, and communication during and after is paramount.
[2008/11/18 7:12] Pirate Russell: Today We are addressing the communication side of this primarily.
[2008/11/18 7:13] Pirate Russell: As a submissive you've given most or all of the control over to the Dominant when a scene starts.
[2008/11/18 7:13] Pirate Russell: Unfortunately... sometimes the Dominant is not always as careful or knowledgeable as a boy or girl might hope. And mistakes do happen.
[2008/11/18 7:13] Pirate Russell: Yes, the word, "No", itself is very negative to some and for some Dominants is a starndard rule to never be used. So, let's start with that.
[2008/11/18 7:13] Pirate Russell: Saying the word 'NO' is not the primary focus, but the reasons a submissive would need or want to say no, no matter how it is put into words.
[2008/11/18 7:14] Pirate Russell: As respect is very key within a D/s relationship, am sure that most D/s relationships will have a knowledge or rule on how to GO ABOUT saying "No'.
[2008/11/18 7:14] Pirate Russell: The question of should a submissive say 'NO' begins with HOW a submissive should say no if the need arises.
[2008/11/18 7:14] Pirate Russell: "Please, Mistress, " is one of the ways to address a Dominant that has said the word 'No' iteself is not allowed, or you fear saying so on your own.
[2008/11/18 7:15] Pirate Russell: Also to the submissives, I would like to explain that simply saying 'NO' also does not help from the standpoint that there is no real communication by just saying 'NO' without an explanation.
[2008/11/18 7:15] Pirate Russell: you chose to be their submissive, and should learn how to communicate best with your Dominant.
[2008/11/18 7:15] Pirate Russell: 'NO' can be taken as rebellion, a challenge and disrespectful. Often times, is disregarded in urgency because it IS lacking real communication.
[2008/11/18 7:15] Pirate Russell: Traffic light safewords (red for full stop, yellow for caution) seem to help cover some of these circumstances. Then you can scream 'no' all you like. ;-)
[2008/11/18 7:16] Pirate Russell: No matter the form of address, yes a submissive has a right to say no, BUT in whatever form is best to address it with their Dominant, if the word itself is denied, but ALWAYS include communication.
[2008/11/18 7:16] Pirate Russell: Yes, I said the "C" word EARLY this week! ie: "Please, Mistress, No. That is breaching girl's limit" or "Please, Mistress, No, that is hurting too much.
[2008/11/18 7:16] Pirate Russell: I would also like to point out that using safewords is important in times of danger. include that in your statement to stop a scene or to open communication, so that the plea is NOT taken as part of the scene. This is part of safe, sane, and consensual.
[2008/11/18 7:17] Pirate Russell: Some of us like to push limits and may not know ahead of time what we can handle, playing with limits is intense, and haphazard communication strategies are dangerous if you're going that far.
[2008/11/18 7:17] Pirate Russell: A Dominant should ask the submissive often during a scene how they are doing, especially if speaking is forbidden, and especially if the submissives is in sub-space!
[2008/11/18 7:17] Pirate Russell: Green is "great, keep going, Master/Mistress!"
[2008/11/18 7:17] Pirate Russell: Yellow is "am uncomfortable or unsure, maybe need to slow down, Master/Mistress."
[2008/11/18 7:17] Pirate Russell: Red is "STOP & RELEASE" PERIOD. and open the communication!
[2008/11/18 7:18] Pirate Russell: If gagged, use a bell PLEASE. Green is 3 rings Yellow is 2 rings Red is 1 ring **why this order? because in panic or pain....one ring may be all one can muster!
[2008/11/18 7:18] Pirate Russell: Even in SL, when people are in deep RP....this can be used.
[2008/11/18 7:18] Pirate Russell: ((well not the bell)) he he
[2008/11/18 7:18] Pirate Russell: There are many dominants that refuse safe words even....and that is one of the priorities of awareness in the saying no
[2008/11/18 7:19] Pirate Russell: Personally, any Dominant that refuses a safe word, or refuses open communication, even in a Total Power Exchange relationship, is NOT a true dominant and does not care for their submissives or their safety.
[2008/11/18 7:19] Pirate Russell: Even when gagged, a submissive should have a SOUND signal to alert the Dominant that the submissive is in danger. Eye or hand signals are NOT enough. Remember the bell. Even when the hands are bound. BUT that is ANOTHER class *giggles*
[2008/11/18 7:19] Pirate Russell: If there is a real need to stop through any reason, a safeword really is the thing to say which should be followed by discussion about how the slave is.
[2008/11/18 7:19] Pirate Russell: This should include what did the Dominant do wrong or what the submissive experienced to cause the stoppage of the scene.
[2008/11/18 7:20] Pirate Russell: It isn't always the Dominant in the wrong, it is sometimes something personal with the submissive. Limits can change, do change!
[2008/11/18 7:20] Pirate Russell: If a submissive is in IMMEDIATE danger or their limits are being breached, they should be able to say NO in whatever shape or form that it needs to be spoken.
[2008/11/18 7:20] Pirate Russell: The absence of a willingness to have a safeword or to dicuss it may be a very useful indicator for any sub when considering a potential Dominant
[2008/11/18 7:20] Pirate Russell: Especially in SL, a sub CAN deny their Master/Mistresses wish, however it is not constructive to just refuse without an explaination
[2008/11/18 7:21] Pirate Russell: Neither a submissive nor a Dominant should do anything, just because one or the other like to do it, if that behavior is highly unsafe.
[2008/11/18 7:21] Pirate Russell: The mental or physical health of either or both individuals is being or might be harmed. THIS situation demands then to proceed to stopping a scene, questioning and discussing.
[2008/11/18 7:21] Pirate Russell: Sometimes just questioning will be enough to clear things up and the scene can progress to a great ending.
[2008/11/18 7:21] Pirate Russell: Mistakes happen though, a rope might twist in a squirm and cut off circulation. It isn't anyone's fault, just something that happens, not a case of a poor Dominant, or submissive.
[2008/11/18 7:22] Pirate Russell: A "scene review" should always be part of the play. Whether there was a safeword used or not. Always, and a submissive should be able to say No there too.
[2008/11/18 7:22] Pirate Russell: submissives, remember, Though We may be your Dominant, We ARE NOT mind readers. It is your responsibility to say something if things are going south.
[2008/11/18 7:22] Pirate Russell: Also remember, there is very little difference in the facial expressions of being in pain and being in ecstacy. *chuckles*, ESPECIALLY in SL.
[2008/11/18 7:22] Pirate Russell: The point is that taking on a sub is a great opportunity to take care of a person's deep, inner needs and curiousity's. The rules should be set ahead of time, and a scene-review later is is important too.
[2008/11/18 7:23] Pirate Russell: Using a safe word, calling a scene to stop, opening communication, or in a discussion, saying No, should not be taken as telling the Dominant what to do or not to do or topping from the bottom.
[2008/11/18 7:23] Pirate Russell: It is the responsibility of both the Dominant and the submissive to communicate why, what the fear is, or if there is a true safety danger, Both should respect that. Safe, Sane and Consensual is key in any D/s relationship.
[2008/11/18 7:23] Pirate Russell: Comments, Questions?
[2008/11/18 7:24] ***ML***: pardon this girl ... pirate?
[2008/11/18 7:24] ***ML***: whta is meant please by "scene review"????
[2008/11/18 7:24] Pirate Russell: Go ahead ***ML***, we're fairly informal here
[2008/11/18 7:24] ***ML***: please?
[2008/11/18 7:25] Pirate Russell: A Scene Review is the time after the scene is over where the Dominant and submissive discuss what just happened, how to improve, what to omit next time, etc
[2008/11/18 7:25] ***IM***: Different from Aftercare, Mistress?
[2008/11/18 7:25] ***ML***: ahhhh the after glowment of course Pirate ! please pardon this girl's ignorance many thanks
[2008/11/18 7:26] ***MR***: I make use of a sub journal for this communication
[2008/11/18 7:26] Pirate Russell: During Aftercare would be a good time, while it's still fresh in girl's mind, and on her ass, for the Scene Review
[2008/11/18 7:27] Pirate Russell: Are you a RL Dominant, Reinard?
[2008/11/18 7:27] ***IM*** giggles
[2008/11/18 7:27] ***ML*** smiles
[2008/11/18 7:27] ***MR***: no - only sl
[2008/11/18 7:27] Pirate Russell: Ok, same here, and I've been known to grab the IM and chat logs, for that... he he
[2008/11/18 7:28] ***ML***: Lady pirate? can you give an example of how one would voice "No" to a master? I mean would they just say in im "redlight?
[2008/11/18 7:28] ***MR***: it also give the sub a duty to perform
[2008/11/18 7:28] ***AB***: in rl one must smost times order one subs to speak out
[2008/11/18 7:28] Pirate Russell: Sure, what's one of girl's hard limits
[2008/11/18 7:29] ***ML***: so saying redlight Master/ Mistress because____________. would be most sppropriate please?
[2008/11/18 7:30] Pirate Russell: Yes, or in the case of Redlight, it's an IMMEDIATE stop/release, etc. Then once everyone's 'save' then the communication.
[2008/11/18 7:30] Pirate Russell: er safe, not save
[2008/11/18 7:30] ***ML***: or "ooooooooo yellow Master/Mistress --- proceed but mmmmmm carefully !"
[2008/11/18 7:31] ***ML*** smiles
[2008/11/18 7:31] Pirate Russell: Yes, or "Yellow, too deep in slut's ass" then I'd pull out and not drive so deep
[2008/11/18 7:32] ***IM***: girl has found that it's hard to come out of subspace and say "redlight." By the time girl is back the event has long passed and the need to safeword is over.
[2008/11/18 7:32] Pirate Russell: EVERY Relationship, BDSM or not, should be negotiated, the submissive should ALWAYS know what the Dominant expects as far as safe words, communication, etc
[2008/11/18 7:32] ***AB***: as a Mistress/Master one must always take great care of ones pets/subs be aware of the pets/subs needs and moods
[2008/11/18 7:32] Pirate Russell: That is also a danger, ***IM***, a good Dominant will check often, if they even suspect that subspace is entered
[2008/11/18 7:33] ***AP***: nods
[2008/11/18 7:33] ***ML***: sub space?
[2008/11/18 7:33] Pirate Russell: (For those that dont' know My ***AB***, she's a RL switch, prefers the sub side, had the Dominant side thrust upon her)
[2008/11/18 7:33] ***ML***:
[2008/11/18 7:34] ***ML***:
[2008/11/18 7:34] Pirate Russell: ANYtime, ***ML***!
[2008/11/18 7:34] ***ML***: is that euphoria?
[2008/11/18 7:34] ***ML***: please if you would... what is subspace?
[2008/11/18 7:35] ***IM***: For girl it is when girl is lost in the scene and totally dependant on her Mistress. girl looses awareness of anything else.
[2008/11/18 7:36] ***AB***: sub spasce where one retreats into a safe place in your mind while te world moves on very dangerous can lead to death has in some cases because ofpoor Dominates
[2008/11/18 7:36] Pirate Russell: subspace is when you're 'lost in the scene' dependant on Other(s)
[2008/11/18 7:36] Pirate Russell: Or possibly hiding from the scene... ;-)
[2008/11/18 7:37] ***ML***: is this "subspace" an intricate and nessacary aspect of the bDsm genre then?
[2008/11/18 7:37] Pirate Russell: I'll let the RL subs here answer that, I've never experienced it
[2008/11/18 7:38] ***ML***: wouldn't one have to have some apect of the sub - space involved to have a true D/s relation? intimacy?
[2008/11/18 7:38] Pirate Russell: But one thing I WILL say, ***ML***, is that EVERY scene, for EVERY Dominant and submissive is UNIQUE
[2008/11/18 7:38] ***AP***: You don't always reach it, but when you do, it's very much a spaced out, happy feeling, ***ML***
[2008/11/18 7:38] ***ML***: it is only experienced by a s?
[2008/11/18 7:38] ***IM***: It is like when one goes to a movie. One gets lost in the story and forgets that horses can't really fly. That sort of thing. Reality changes. It is a very euphoric place.
[2008/11/18 7:38] Pirate Russell: No, there is Dom-space, too.
[2008/11/18 7:39] ***ML***: sounds similar to an orgasm
[2008/11/18 7:39] ***ML***: only on a higher plane?
[2008/11/18 7:39] Pirate Russell: I wouldn't say Higher, but another, mabye
[2008/11/18 7:39] ***ML***: hmmmmm
[2008/11/18 7:40] ***ML***: is it a regular emotion that is experienced by one or the other in the intimacy act?
[2008/11/18 7:40] Pirate Russell: Please help Me out subbies... he he
[2008/11/18 7:40] ***ML***: wouldn't that in a sense be the intended goal odf the pairing?
[2008/11/18 7:41] ***JO***: Excuse this girl Mistress
[2008/11/18 7:41] ***AP***: OK...imagine you like to be whipped- it hurts at first, then you begin to takeit, and finally, you reach a point where you feel as though you can take it forever....um, does that make sense? You kidn of lose the power to stop, even if you wanted to?
[2008/11/18 7:42] ***JO***: at onset, it sounded like subspace was a dissociation in a need to escape dangerous situation/feelings=
[2008/11/18 7:42] Pirate Russell: Kind of like a runner hitting "The Wall" the Endorphins kick in
[2008/11/18 7:42] ***IM***: It is more a suspension of reality. Ones awareness shirnks down to the scene.
[2008/11/18 7:42] ***JO***: then the turn of conversation took the meaning to euphoria
[2008/11/18 7:42] ***JO***: then the turn of conversation took the meaning to euphoria
[2008/11/18 7:42] ***JO***: then the turn of conversation took the meaning to euphoria
[2008/11/18 7:43] ***JO***: this girl is confused
[2008/11/18 7:43] ***ML***: aye many thanks forum for enlightenment of this girl's ignorance
[2008/11/18 7:44] Pirate Russell: Here, too and that should keep whore from arrest
[2008/11/18 7:44] ***ML***: in the D/s intamacy there often times may be a tolerance reached in volving phyiscally dangerous aspects/ actions and that tolerance can in fact be as a drug addiction to which one can ummm achieve a higher ground?
[2008/11/18 7:46] ***ML***: ?
[2008/11/18 7:46] ***ML***: sub space is similar to a drug addiction in a sense?
[2008/11/18 7:46] ***ML***: ya need your fix and once its obtain no matter the ends will justify the means always?
[2008/11/18 7:46] ***IM***: http://www.albanypowerexchange.com/Ds/subspace.htm has a good, but rather long explination of subspace.
[2008/11/18 7:46] Pirate Russell: Yes, there can be dangerous situations, that release endorphins and adrenelin
[2008/11/18 7:47] Pirate Russell thinks subspace can be a class in itself.. he he
[2008/11/18 7:47] ***IM*** nods
[2008/11/18 7:47] Pirate Russell: MAYBE I can find a sub to teach it......
[2008/11/18 7:49] ***AP***: Good idea!
[2008/11/18 7:49] ***ML***: this girl apologizes and begs pardon
[2008/11/18 7:49] Pirate Russell: Can I depend on you then, ***AP***?
[2008/11/18 7:49] ***AP***: Oooh, well, maybe i could write it for you...Miss
[2008/11/18 7:50] Pirate Russell: W/we'lll talk!
[2008/11/18 7:50] ***AP***: I still have my pen in my hand...lol ok thanks Miss
[2008/11/18 7:53] Pirate Russell: Just remember, In RL a bad dominant can, hand has, caused the death of a submissive.
[2008/11/18 7:54] ***IM***: So how does one keep their senses enough to say redlight when they are in subspace? And will a dominant listen if they are deep into domspace?
[2008/11/18 7:54] ***ML***: which is why a mutual trust communication and honesty are a must in any and ALL relationships?
[2008/11/18 7:54] Pirate Russell: Again, My RL subbies out there need to answer that, I'm not a RL Domme
[2008/11/18 7:57] Pirate Russell: Well, the only way *I* can answer that is trust, you have to build that trust between the 2 of y'all, before you do anyting 'life threatening'.
[2008/11/18 7:57] Zealot Benmergui: Well, as a rl dom, I can answer the second part of that
[2008/11/18 7:57] ***AP***: ooh sorry, i was um, If you are in that much of a subspace i should imagine your Domininat would notice -should do - and that means knowing each other well enough to trust that to happen
[2008/11/18 7:57] Zealot Benmergui: In my experience, "Domspace" actually makes you more aware of the woman in question, not less
[2008/11/18 7:57] Zealot Benmergui: when I am that in tune, I don;t need her to use a safe word, if she is in trouble, I know about it before she does
[2008/11/18 7:57] ***ML***: this girl wonders if you are so deep into a subspace perhaps a redlight wouldn't be accurately implemented as a subspace is a sheer bliss?
[2008/11/18 7:58] ***IM*** nods. Exactly, ***ML***.
[2008/11/18 7:58] ***ML***: seems ike to me that you ask for all to cease right sa you are beginning your xtc orgasm?
[2008/11/18 7:58] ***AB***: not always the Case as SUBSPACE can be a retreat away from te reall
[2008/11/18 7:58] ***ML***: that would just lead to an unsatisfied frusteration?
[2008/11/18 7:59] ***AP***: but you could be in such deep sub space you no longer have control over your own mind ...
[2008/11/18 7:59] ***ML***: but wouldnt one or both of the pariteies involved have coherence to realize that "danger" approaching?
[2008/11/18 8:00] ***AP***: that can be dangerous, yes
[2008/11/18 8:00] ***ML***: as this gierl thinks it a rarity for all members to go space at once?
[2008/11/18 8:00] Pirate Russell: Also a 'spotter' or 'chaperone' can be present to watch for problems, too!
[2008/11/18 8:01] ***AB***: my First Girl is always onhand, and when it is her turn her secnd is there
[2008/11/18 8:03] f00 Barbosa: hey nude boy, you're spoiling my view
[2008/11/18 8:03] Pirate Russell: And like Z said, he becomes MORE aware, not lost
[2008/11/18 8:04] Pirate Russell: well, unless anyone has more quesitons?
[2008/11/18 8:04] ***AP***: giggles
[2008/11/18 8:05] ***AP***: why was that man not wearing any clothes?
[2008/11/18 8:05] Pirate Russell: It's SL, it's a naked friendly sim, not a problem for Me
[2008/11/18 8:05] Calithien Vaher: lol
[2008/11/18 8:05] Pirate Russell: All transcripts can be found at http://collegeofkink.blogspot.com
College of Kink classes Monday & Tuesday @ 7a, Thursday @ Midnight:30 and 10a and Friday 1p.
Y/you can always check the Search/Events and look for College.
[2008/11/18 8:05] ***AB***: possble for the same reason this whore does not because itis what she is allowed
[2008/11/18 8:05] Pirate Russell: found EVENTUALLY.. he he
[2008/11/18 8:05] ***AP***: Just checking ...smiles
[2008/11/18 8:06] Bunny Hastings: he had on his tidy whitties anyway
[2008/11/18 8:06] ***AP***: snickers
[2008/11/18 8:06] Pirate Russell: and ***AB*** isn't ALLOWED to own any clothing
[2008/11/18 8:06] ***AB*** the whore smiles happily
[2008/11/18 8:06] ***AP***: :))
[2008/11/18 8:07] Pirate Russell: Class dismissed, come see Z's class Thur AM at midnight:30, and Omegaa Spackler is having his 1st class Thursday at... um.... 10a? he he