Shibari - 10/23/08

c[7:09] Payne Samiam: How I usually do this is a talk then we open it to comments, questions and discussions
[7:10] Payne Samiam: Everyone ready ? now don't all speak at once we may crash the server.
[7:10]
[7:10] ***KR***: You are inviting questions now..?
[7:10] Payne Samiam: no i'm just trying to make sure you are all alive
[7:10] ***KR***: OK....!
[7:11] ***LM*** meows
[7:11] Payne Samiam smiles
[7:11] Payne Samiam: yay
[7:11] ***AG*** is alive and ready
[7:11] ***LR***: ready here!
[7:11] ***AG***: =))
[7:11] Payne Samiam: Now really in sl bondage can only be theory, except for mental bondage but thats a subject for another lesson.
[7:12] Payne Samiam: In general bondage can really be anything from a collar to rope to silk lingerie it all depends on what it means to you personally.
[7:13] Payne Samiam: I knew a girl once who felt like she was in bondage just by wearing a bra and panties.
[7:13] Payne Samiam: But this talk is more about japanese rope bondage
[7:13] ***LM*** smiles big
[7:14] Payne Samiam: Calling it Shibari is really not acurate the meaning of the word is to tie or to bind
[7:15] Payne Samiam: It can even be used in describing a well put together parcel
[7:16] Payne Samiam: But what we are talking about really is sexual bondage
[7:16] Payne Samiam: This differs from western bonday in a key area
[7:16] Payne Samiam: While in the west we do practice rope bondage and other kinds
[7:17] Payne Samiam: The art of japanese rope bondage usually includes the knoting and placing of knots along the sexual or pleasure centers of the body
[7:17] Payne Samiam: In japanese bondage the beauty of it is the girl or boy is aroused by every breath
[7:18] Payne Samiam: even the slightest move can be very very distracting
[7:19] Payne Samiam: But before I say anything else i'll say this
[7:19] ***LM*** grins
[7:19] Payne Samiam: Do not try this without alot of research
[7:19] Payne Samiam: Don't play around with your loved ones without a good knowledge
[7:19] Payne Samiam: the same knots you can use in Shibari can kill.
[7:20] Payne Samiam: If done in the wrong way you can create a situation where each time the subject breaths the bondage contracts
[7:21] Payne Samiam: This not only would mean slow suffocation
[7:21] Payne Samiam: but the knots themselves become so tight you can't undo them
[7:21] Payne Samiam: Always have a good cutting impliment like a knife or scissors
[7:21] Payne Samiam: practice on a pillow or your own leg or arm
[7:22]
[7:22] Payne Samiam: Shibari can be the most beautiful form of bondage (Kinbaku) but your subject's life is in your hands literally
[7:23] Payne Samiam: I first learnt of it at a munch (meeting of D/s BDSM ) people in my local area.
[7:23] Payne Samiam: I spent alot of time learning and watching (which can be such alot of fun)
[7:23] Payne Samiam: Don't try to learn from sl bondage and shibari, most of it is made by people who have never tried it rl.
[7:24]
[7:25] Payne Samiam: But with the right training with the right knowledge well, sending a girl shopping to fetch dinner knowing she has ropework on under her clothes and every movement is arousing her is quite *smiles* fun
[7:25] Payne Samiam: You can actually make underwear out of Japanese rope which can safely stay on all day.
[7:25] ***LM***: purrs
[7:25] Payne Samiam: now talking of rope
[7:25] Payne Samiam smiles
[7:25] Payne Samiam: its personal preference
[7:26] ***OI***: mmmmmnow ***OI*** is interested
[7:26] Payne Samiam: I use cotton 8mm and 6mm but some traditionalists won't use anything other than hemp
[7:26]
[7:27] ***PG*** itches
[7:27] Payne Samiam: What i'd say is anyone interested after this talk just go to google both image search and normal search and there is an amazing amount of information
[7:27] ***LM***: silk rope hurts
[7:27] ***LM***: sorry
[7:28] Payne Samiam: There is special oils you can soak the ropes in, but using the right one with the right rope is an art form in itself, no need to be sorry
[7:28] Payne Samiam: nylon rope favoured in the 80's has a very special quality when you use baby oil on it *smiles*
[7:29] Payne Samiam: What I will say is whenever possible go to the source, as in japanese books or translations
[7:29] Payne Samiam: most of western versions are very much diluted and changed
[7:30] ***OI***: hmmmm never thought of oiling the ropes.....
[7:30] Payne Samiam: I'm not saying they are not fun they are and quite erotic.
[7:30] Payne Samiam: Strawberry flavoured body oil can be interesting too if you like strawberry
[7:31] ***LM***: Master liked me in pain so he did not get oil
[7:31] Payne Samiam: I have always prefered pleasure to pain well some types of pain are yummy.
[7:31] Payne Samiam smiles
[7:32] ***OI***: how did you feel about that Lost?
[7:32] ***KR***: Yes...how did you feel....?
[7:32] Payne Samiam: Very good question ***OI***
[7:32] ***LM***: pain is good now
[7:32] ***LM***: cam fast
[7:32] ***LM***: :-P
[7:33] Payne Samiam: This brings all to the basics of it all.
[7:33] Payne Samiam: to some people pain is a hard limit and should not be broken to others its soft, to others its a I'm scared but I really want to try this
[7:33] Payne Samiam: its very much personal preference
[7:34] Payne Samiam: When exploring limits with ***LW*** its very much we will try anything but we only continue those things that fit us both
[7:34] ***OI***: ......
[7:34] ***KR***: But ***LW*** cannot feel real pain.........
[7:35] ***OI***: ***OI*** raises hand shyly admiting exploring can be gushy fun..
[7:35] ***KR***: ***LW*** pretends to feel pain........???
[7:35] ***KR***: T give you pleasure.....?
[7:35] Payne Samiam: She is my submissive online which to me is no different than if she was rl, now there is ways and things to explore if you have a good imagination or a good partner
[7:36] Payne Samiam: Pain isn't my thing or hers although there are levels of pain
[7:36] ***KR***: IN RL it is
[7:36] Payne Samiam: What do you mean ***KR*** ?
[7:37] ***KR***: In SL...she will have to pretend to feel pain....yes..?
[7:37] Payne Samiam: no
[7:37] Payne Samiam: everything we do is real
[7:37] ***OI***: she could wear clothes pins rl
[7:37] ***LM***: pain of the mind is the best pain
[7:37] ***PG***: imagination is a wonderful thing and can be quite intense.
[7:37] ***OI***: or flog her self
[7:37] Payne Samiam: Exactly
[7:37] ***OI***: or use a pin wheel rl at master's dirrection
[7:38] ***KR***: But that self inflicted.......you are not a part of it
[7:38] Payne Samiam: plus well i've been into hypnosis for 10 years so we do have some fun of different kinds
[7:38] Payne Samiam: Everything she does is for me ***KR***
[7:38] ***KR***: OK
[7:38] Payne Samiam: See rope bondage doesn't haveto be about pain
[7:39] Payne Samiam: And People assume I like pain which I don't
[7:39] Payne Samiam: About the only kind of pain I find enjoyable is the well Having a girl over my lap spanking her while rubbing her pussy the pain and pleasure can make things very fun
[7:40] Payne Samiam: I've looked after alot of girls who were pain sluts
[7:40] ***LM*** giggles
[7:40] Payne Samiam: but me myself I don't get a thrill or hots from causing mental or physical pain
[7:40] Payne Samiam: The only pleasure i'd get is from my girls pleasure if she enjoyed it
[7:41] Payne Samiam: Mental bondage pain, submission all of that can be so powerful
[7:41] Payne Samiam: and real
[7:41] Payne Samiam: no matter if 1m away or 5000 miles
[7:41] Payne Samiam: if your with the right person
[7:42] ***LM***: yes Sir it can
[7:42] Payne Samiam: but most of the toys etc you will see in sl have no reality
[7:42] Payne Samiam: i'd prefer sit down with my girl ask her to close her eyes and me take her deeply into submission via voice than play on a sex bed or bouncy bouncy machine
[7:43] ***LM***: purrs
[7:43] Payne Samiam: ***LW*** is showering getting ready for work btw or she would be much more talky talky :)
[7:44] Payne Samiam: Now questions and discussions and talkie talkie time, hit me with it or each other
[7:44] ***LM*** giggles
[7:44] ***LW***: baaack
[7:44] ***LW***: just in time
[7:44] ***LW***: giggles
[7:44] Payne Samiam: Welcome back love
[7:44] Payne Samiam snuggles his love
[7:44] ***LM***: welcome back
[7:44] ***LW***: I do not roleplay pain. if i am told to do something in rl, it is Master directing my hands.
[7:44] ***LW***: if he says, pinch hard, and it hurtd
[7:44] ***LW***: I will tell him
[7:45] ***AR***: I am curious to know how the dom take in his sub in deeply submission, Sir Payne
[7:45] ***LW***: and he will direct my hands to pinch harder or lessen, etc
[7:45] ***OI***: ***OI*** wonders if you get into erotic shaving?
[7:45] Payne Samiam: In sl it is very much hard to find a partner who isn't playing games
[7:45] ***AR***: on voice, sorry
[7:46] Payne Samiam: okay a simple example I won't focus this on anyone and its just winging it
[7:46] Payne Samiam: Dear girl listen to my voice, just relax for me, breath slowly, gently and slowly, little by little letting go, held by Master, cared for and loved.
[7:47] ***OI***: mmmmmmmmmm
[7:47] ***KR***: I feel sleepy...........lol
[7:47] Payne Samiam: I don't do scripts or written ideas, I find its so much better to listen to the one your with and adapt just follow the path together
[7:48] ***LW*** nods
[7:48] Payne Samiam: its all very personal
[7:49] Payne Samiam: like i've always said make it personal, its a journey between you and your girl or the other way around
[7:49] Payne Samiam: and always listen
[7:50] Payne Samiam: The simple rule if it feels right if it feels natural then go with it
[7:50] Payne Samiam: if not then its not the right time
[7:50] Payne Samiam: More questions or comments :)
[7:51] ***PG***: Just one
[7:51] Payne Samiam waits for it
[7:51] ***LM***: you lost me on the girl/boy thing please forgive this bay
[7:51] ***PG***: I think people should be reminded that it is very dangerous to engage in self bondage or inflicting self pain at someone elses direction unless you REALLY know them well on both sides
[7:52] Payne Samiam: I completely agree ***PG*** I would have said pretty much that at the end :) now you saved me doing it
[7:52] Payne Samiam: LostDJ what do you mean what context and its fine :)
[7:53] ***AR***: I gotta go, I thankyou for the lesson, Sir payne, wishing A/all well :)
[7:53] Payne Samiam: Bye have a good day
[7:55] Payne Samiam: But yes ***PG*** sl is not really the best place as an example but things can be very real in real
[7:56] ***PG***: huh?
[7:56] Payne Samiam: As in knife play etc in sl is just play and silly
[7:56] Payne Samiam: but in real it can be well erm lol real
[7:56] Payne Samiam grins
[7:57] Payne Samiam: Which is why I advise people to explore these things in rl with people you trust or online only if your extremely competent and know the issues
[7:57] ***OI***: shivers at the though too scary
[7:58] Payne Samiam: There is lots of things done in sl that you wouldn't or shouldn't do rl
[7:58] ***PG***: The very nature of Dom/submissive relationships makes a flow on effect into real life from second life a distinct possibility. Directives given in SL can and do have results in real life. I know of girls that have been sent out on the streets to pick up guys for random sex to satisify the quirks of nutters pretending to be doms
[7:58] Payne Samiam: to some its a hard definition to make
[7:58] Payne Samiam: Forgive me ***PG*** but ...
[7:59] Payne Samiam: Any fucked up guy or mistress or what the fuck ever who would do that to a girl is NOT a Master, not even a human being
[7:59] Payne Samiam: and deserves a painful death
[7:59] ***PG***: Many girls in SL are cutters in real life. It takes very little encouragement before they get well out of control in real life from stuff they are asked tgo do in second life
[7:59] Payne Samiam: but thats my personal feelings on the subject
[7:59] ***CB***: its stupid
[7:59] ***FB***: Well said Payne - complety agree
[7:59] ***PG***: If the dom in second life is not aware of this, even if he is the nicest guy in the world, that can be disastrous
[8:00] Payne Samiam: I don't believe you can be taught to be a Master
[8:00] Payne Samiam: it comes from inside
[8:00] ***OI***: cutters are deeply disturbed....they need to see a real doctor to help them that is a significant red flag
[8:00] ***PG***: Many pretend
[8:00] Payne Samiam: too many wanabe's
[8:00] Payne Samiam: yes
[8:00] Payne Samiam: A true Master his whole focus will always be to put his girl first
[8:00] Payne Samiam: her mental health
[8:00] Payne Samiam: her physical health
[8:01] Payne Samiam: before any uppy downy motion
[8:01] Payne Samiam: Your responsible for another human being
[8:01] ***CB***: exactly
[8:01] ***CB***: and u have to take care of her
[8:01] ***CB***: cherish her
[8:01] ***CB***: love her
[8:01] Payne Samiam: Take Master as Master/Mistress/Dom/Domme :)
[8:01] ***CB***: and not use like an object
[8:02] ***YY***: if i may interupt for a moment. a D/s relationship is not all sex, infact it's but 1 part of many elements that make up the experience.
[8:02] Payne Samiam: Exactly
[8:02] Payne Samiam: In D/s relationships i've put girls through college, helped them get promotions at work, helped them realise there dreams
[8:02]
[8:02] Payne Samiam: I am one of the few Masters who has successfully looked after lesbias
[8:03] Payne Samiam: lesbians
[8:03] Payne Samiam: and no not by trying to turn them
[8:03] Payne Samiam: but by helping them get on with life and giving them a safe haven
[8:04] Payne Samiam snuggles ***LW***
[8:04] Payne Samiam: I love you ***LW*** I know you need to go to work have a lovely day and i'll talk to you on yahoo or see you when I wake
[8:04] Payne Samiam snuggles ***LW***
[8:04] Payne Samiam: Any more good points anyone wants to make
[8:05] Payne Samiam: BTW it goes without saying don't do shibari with anyone you met on the street
[8:05] Payne Samiam: same with anything
[8:05] Payne Samiam: common sense
[8:05] Payne Samiam: And what would people like a talk on next thursday I love getting ideas and suggestions
[8:06] ***LW***: giggles
[8:06] Payne Samiam loves his nummy ***LW***
[8:06] ***YY***: i would have thought, trying to engage in bondage and bdsm play with any stranger is a bad idea.
[8:06] Payne Samiam: Yes but some people do
[8:07] ***YY***: more for kicks than a serious act, though
[8:07] ***PG***: not always
[8:07] Payne Samiam: There is alot of predators out there
[8:07] ***AG***: red flags
[8:07] ***YY***: hence the bad idea comment.
[8:07] ***AG***: please
[8:07] Payne Samiam listens
[8:09] Payne Samiam: Everything went very quiet shhhhh everyone must be huntin wabbits
[8:09] ***RS***: smiles
[8:09] ***PG*** laughs
[8:09] Payne Samiam: Okay i think a good talk for next week would be ..
[8:09] Payne Samiam: red flags
[8:09] Payne Samiam: warning signs
[8:09] Payne Samiam: what to look for
[8:09] ***PG***: Perhaps that might serve as a them for a discussion. The dnagers of online predation
[8:09] Payne Samiam: how to keep yourself safe
[8:10] ***LW***: seeya tonight love. :) have a wonderful day!!
[8:10] ***PG***: even if I can't spell it
[8:10] ***RS***: yes...how to keep yourself safe
[8:10] ***LW***: sorrye veryone work calls
[8:10] Payne Samiam: you too love bai bai nummy girl
[8:10] ***AG***: YAY
[8:10] ***RS***: bye
[8:10] ***YY*** waves
[8:10] Payne Samiam: I get up at 4am so i can tuck her in before she goes bed
[8:11] ***AG***: great subject
[8:11] ***AG***: awwww
[8:11] Payne Samiam: So that is a definite subject for same time next week
[8:11] Payne Samiam: sadly there is alot of people in D/s and BDSM who shouldn't be in and do alot of damahe
[8:12] Payne Samiam: damage
[8:12] ***RS***: yes... i agree
[8:12] Payne Samiam: over the last 10 years i'd haveto say atleast half my time as a Master and carer has been trying to repair damage done by others
[8:12] Payne Samiam: The good guys the good women whatever your preferences, that shouldn't be the suprise
[8:12] Payne Samiam: but sadly it is
[8:13] Payne Samiam: we are blown away when we find a good one
[8:13] Payne Samiam: and thats sad
[8:13] Payne Samiam: If anyone wants to friendship me and ask questions thats fine also
[8:13] Payne Samiam: I don't do this for money i'm happy to help anyone and give advice
[8:14] ***AG***: ))
[8:14] Payne Samiam: only warning is i'm pretty blunt so if someone does something stupid i will tell them
[8:14] Payne Samiam smiles
[8:14] ***RS***: Thank you Payne!
[8:14] ***PG***: thank you for the lesson and the discussion
[8:14] Payne Samiam: Thank you for being here
[8:14] ***FB***: Very interesting - thank you very much
[8:14] ***RS***: I appreciate the friendship Payne
[8:15] Payne Samiam: after all without people listening and taking part then im just a crazy guy talking to prims
[8:15] ***RS***: It was very inciteful...your talk
[8:15] Payne Samiam: My pleasure Robin :)
[8:15] ***AG***: lol
[8:15] Payne Samiam: I don't trust prims they are sneakuy
[8:15] Payne Samiam: oh god my typing is going out the window lol
[8:15] ***YY***: finger cramp? =p
[8:15] ***CB***: lol
[8:16] Payne Samiam: <-- is a first genre typonese
[8:16] ***CB***: heh
[8:16] ***RS***: ha!
[8:17] Payne Samiam: I am also starting up a little group/meeting.
[8:17] Payne Samiam: it will be informal when people have time and at mine and ***LW***'s house
[8:17] ***YY***: as i sometimes say, i speak good english, and bad english, fluently.
[8:17] ***CB***: heh
[8:17] Payne Samiam: just informal stuff talking and sometimes examples of hypnosis etc
[8:17] ***RS***: that would be interesting
[8:18] Payne Samiam: but generally just a place to kick back and have fun talks and parties.
[8:18] Payne Samiam: But first me and ***LW*** is getting married YAY!!!
[8:18] ***CB***: congrats
[8:18] Payne Samiam: then the house will be finished :)
[8:18] ***PG***: congratulations
[8:18] ***YY***: vongratulations.
[8:18] ***RS***: Congratulations!
[8:18] ***YY***: congratulations* too
[8:18] Payne Samiam: So i'll do a bulk hopefully non annoying message when its setup
[8:19] Payne Samiam: My talks always go over the hour hehe
[8:19] ***OI***: :)
[8:19] Payne Samiam: Anything else anyone wants to say before I go make cheese melties
[8:19] ***PG***: yum
[8:20] ***CB***: guess u can go now lol
[8:20] ***RS***: thanks
[8:20] Payne Samiam grins
[8:20] Sarah Aldwych: thanks and congrats!
[8:20] ***CB***: have a good meal
[8:20] ***AG***: waves buh bye -- ty , see u all soon
[8:21] ***YY*** waves
[8:21] Payne Samiam: Have a lovely day all of you
[8:21] ***YY***: you too.