But he promised he was NICE…Dos and Don’ts for RL Meetings

[7:09] Zealot Benmergui: We will begin with the lecture, then the discussion, gladitorial battle and collective sodomy exhibition will take place after
[7:09] ***MM***: score!
[7:09] ***VV***: grins
[7:10] ***TF*** rolls eyes
[7:10] Zealot Benmergui: Miss ***VS***, can you hear me...well, read me I suppose?
[7:10] ***VS***: Yes, thank you, I can
[7:10] Zealot Benmergui: good, then the chat range is fine
[7:10] ***VS***: Gladiatorial battle, -- I am ready for that
[7:11] ***VS***: :-)
[7:11] Zealot Benmergui: Easy there dear
[7:11] Zealot Benmergui: Welcome A/all to the House of V’s College of Kink. My name is Zealot Benmergui, Baron BardHaven and I will be your host today. The topic for today is “But he promised he was NICE… “ Dos and Don’ts for RL Meetings and we will be discussing different types of D/s relationships online, and then covering some simple safety rules, both physical and emotional, for when an online relationship steps into meatspace. Please note that for the purpose of clarity, I will tend to use “she” to refer to a submissive and “he” to refer to a Dominant, but either can be of any gender.
[7:11] Zealot Benmergui: Before we look at the actual nuts and bolts of a real life meeting, we first need to discuss what we are doing here in SL and on the internet in general, from a D/s point of view. D/s relationships online tend to viewed from one of three angles. The first, which we will mention then ignore, is the “role player” who believes that internet D/s is just a quick way to get your rocks off without having to going down to the newsstand to pick up your German import copy of Kinky She-Mongeese in Heat Monthly.
[7:12] Zealot Benmergui: People who view internet D/s and sex as just another aspect of the video game (DOOD, I came twice…is that extra points? How do I win?) can usually be identified by the fact they tend to have absurd, multicolored genitalia, gestures that trigger audio clips from Family Guy and often say things in IM like “Jesus, lighten up honey, this is just a freakin game…wow..LOL..OK WTF is Bukkake?” If at all possible, unless you share this viewpoint, avoid these people, and if the try to attach themselves to you, beat them to death with sticks.
[7:12] ***MM*** makes a note to find that magazine
[7:13] Zealot Benmergui gives her the order card out of his subscription
[7:13] ***RV***: lol
[7:13] Zealot Benmergui: If all else fails, the best way to drive them away, if they have imprinted on you, is to tell them that you have fallen in love with them and need to know where they live so you can move there with your three kids to be close...you are sure your drunken, brutal husband will never be able to find you once you move in with your new Master and you can get your lithium cheaper using their insurance from work.
[7:13] ***HS***: lol
[7:13] ***TE*** throws a brown paper bag for Miss Mali to put it in
[7:13] ***VV*** 's shoulders shake with laughter.
[7:13] Zealot Benmergui: Trust me, you will never see him logon again.
[7:14] ***MM***: rofl
[7:14] ***HS*** giggles
[7:14] ***RV*** laughs
[7:14] ***TV***: lol
[7:14] ***AP*** grins
[7:14] ***MM***: I"m really a guy works better
[7:14] ***TF*** looks at the floor laughing
[7:14] ***ML***: imprinted...perfect...laughs
[7:14] Zealot Benmergui: Umm..not always...but THAT is another story
[7:14] ***HS***: lol
[7:14] ***RV***: hehehe
[7:14] Zealot Benmergui: The other extreme are the “lifestylers” who view online D/s as simply a hunting ground for their next RL sub or Dom. They view anything that happens online as being without merit compared to “reality”. They will not even give you the time of day unless you live within 100 miles of them or are willing to use your frequent flyer miles for a weekend together a month, with plans to move as soon as possible, and are willing to give them a notarized affidavit to that effect, a recent blood test to show you are clean (within reason) of all STDs, and produce a note from your Mother saying you have been submissive since kindergarten when you used to call little Jimmy Staravitch at the table next to yours Sir and offer to be his My Little Ponygirl.
[7:15] ***TF*** giggles and blushes
[7:15] Zealot Benmergui: If that cust a bit close to bone for some of you..IM me after...thank you
[7:15] Zealot Benmergui: The women single-mindedly hunting their Rl dom online are no different, viewing any man not willing to move them into their rl guest room next week to be trifling or “not enough of a Master for me” and don’t see why you can’t just explain to your wife over dinner “Oh, this woman kneeling under the table sucking my toe, her name is Tabitha and she is my new slave...well, ours actually if you don’t mind swinging the ole’ hairbrush now and again. Pass the meatloaf? Oh, Junior, stop peeking at the slut. I’ll buy you one of your own when you finally pass Physics and prove that you can take care of her.”
[7:16] ***AP***: Jimmy has still got my little pony!
[7:16] ***TF*** covers her eyes with her hand
[7:16] ***HW***: hahaha
[7:16] ***RV***: lmao
[7:16] ***ML***: lol
[7:16] ***HS*** decides not to have meatloaf for dinner
[7:16] Zealot Benmergui: As this side is just as extreme as the role player, they don’t concern us at the moment. Instead, let’s consider the happen median, the online D/s practitioner that views online D/s as a reward in and of itself, saf***TE*** separate from real life most of the time, but which. like Pugsley Addams’ pet Octopus, has a tendency to throw tentacles into meatspace from time to time. Depending on opportunity or preference, these tentacles can take the form of voice, cam, phone calls, pictures or…rl meetings.
[7:17] Zealot Benmergui: *happy median
[7:17] ***GR***is Offline
[7:17] Zealot Benmergui: First of all, let me make the following disclaimer clear: many online relationships are full and rich and vibrant without involving any rl contact or information whatsoever, and the vast majority do not involve rl meetings. Meeting an online love in the real world is fought with concerns and worries and dangers and are not for the insecure or intens***TE*** anxious. If they go well, they can be very rewarding, if they go badly, they can be highly destructive.
[7:18] Zealot Benmergui: Therefore, handle with care
[7:18] Zealot Benmergui: If, knowing the risks, you find yourself in a position where you and a Dom or sub wish to meet in rl and it is possible, you need to stop and think very, very clearly about the entire situation. You must ask yourself and your Dom/sub some serious questions such as “What do we have to gain from meeting?”, “What do we have to lose?”, “What are the risks?”, “What are the logistics involved?”, “What are our goals from meeting?”, “What do we want to happen AFTER the meeting?”.
[7:19] Zealot Benmergui: It is amasing how many people don;t stop and consider the ways a rl meeting will change their relationship....failing to do so is looking for trouble.
[7:19] Zealot Benmergui: These questions need to be answered as impar***TE***lly as possible. If, after discussing these issues (and not in a single sitting, but taking time to think between discussions), you both decide you want to meet, then you need to begin considering the emotional and physical realities of it. First and foremost, you need to think back through your entire relationship and think if there is ANYTHING that is relevant that you have not told them, or fibbed about. Now would be the time to mention that you don’t live in a beach side condo, but your mom’s house does have a view of the river from your bedroom window…or that you may not be QUITE as young as you said, but you still look like the picture you sent when you wear your good wig.
[7:21] Zealot Benmergui: Plus now is the time to bring up anything concerning false teeth or strange digestive ailments.
[7:21] ***AP***: oh goodness!
[7:21] ***RV***: lol
[7:21] ***HS***: grin
[7:21] Zealot Benmergui: I am not saying issues like that matter, ideally they shouldn’t, but I guarantee you that LYING about them will matter in spades unless they are discussed in advance. It is a good idea to reveal all the things you have not shared in advance of the meeting, if they are at all relevant. This line of thought also now brings us to the issue that always tends to play a big part in the psychological preparation for a meeting….that being physical reality vs. Avatar fantasy. On this issue, I will speak from the subs point of view, since let’s face it, most subs are female, and this is far more difficult for women. It exists in men, to be sure, but differently, and less intens***TE***.
[7:22] Zealot Benmergui: After all, most men in the new millenium have actually BELIEVED you ladies when you say size doesn;t matter.
[7:22] ***VV***: heh heh
[7:22] ***MM*** coughs
[7:22] ***RV***: silly men
[7:22] ***HS***: some silly men...
[7:22] ***AP***: LOL
[7:22] ***TF*** quietly giggles
[7:22] Zealot Benmergui: None of us look exactly like our Avatars, most of us bear almost no resemblance to the buff, stacked pixilated pinups we inhabit here. Insecurity about how an online partner will react to the real you plays the major part in pre meeting anxiety and will not be able to be fully squashed. After all, it is realistic. You really can’t be sure there will be a physical attraction until you meet in person and all the reassuring in the world won’t take away all that fear of rejection. Many of us online turned to online D/s due to insecurities about our bodies, after all…some justified, some not. Those ideally will need to be addressed before the meeting, not during…and as gently as possible.
[7:23] Zealot Benmergui: My advice on how best to cope with these issues is to go very carefully, and go for total disclosure…warm up the webcam, make the lights warm and romantic…and show yourself fully if you haven’t yet. Take the time, do it right...make sure there are no surprises. Spontaneity is nice, but if there is a true connection and fire between you, when he finally undresses you it will be just as powerful, even if he has seen you nude on cam many times before. Any upsets, any reactions, and surprises should be dealt with in advance, and with a far greater degree of safety then they would have if first confronted face to face.
[7:25] Zealot Benmergui: Remember, an online couple meeting for the first time carries with it a lot of baggae and emotional history...each couple has imagined and played out the "first time" many many nights online...we have far more expectations going into that first date then a couple who meet in reality do....
[7:26] Zealot Benmergui: after all, most people you sleep with online, you haven't "pretending" to have sex with...at least not more then once or twice.
[7:26] Zealot Benmergui: The place we fall down is where the pretend hits the reality...as they say in London,. Mind the Gap.
[7:27] Zealot Benmergui: All of this advance preperation is nice...but what about the main event?
[7:27] Zealot Benmergui: So how does one make sure in a worst case scenario, you are safe? A few common sense steps will help, even though they seem obvious. Meet for the first time somewhere public, and on neutral ground. Open public events like fairs and things are good…while intimate restaurants, darkened movie theaters and, god help us, hotel rooms, are NOT. Also, avoid hotel lobbies and bars, and that make it subliminally clear that you are just hear to meet before going up to bed. In fact, if you can, avoid sex entir***TE*** that first meeting. Just sound one another out. If the chemistry is there, it will be the next day too. No need to rush.
[7:27] Zealot Benmergui: As far as the people involved, try having the first meeting in the company of mutual friends as a sort of party. Do NOT make that first meeting a private tete’a tete if you can help it, it makes the emotional stakes very, very high right off the bat. If the meeting is out of town, consider bringing a friend with you as a travelling companion, ice breaker and a safety precaution.
[7:28] Zealot Benmergui: Make sure someone who is not there with you knows where you are going to be…and why. Arrange a few times for you to call them to check in, and at least one time for them to call you, preferably about ***HS*** an hour after you are supposed to meet. That way, if things have gone VERY badly, you can use the call as an escape hatch. “Oh gee, sorry, gotta go, that was the sitter…my son just ate the cat. What a mess...and it isn’t even our cat. Must run. Kiss kiss. Sorry we didn’t get a chance to fuck like rabid weasals, but the drinks were nice. Maybe next time. Buh-by”
[7:28] ***VV***: ha ha ha
[7:28] Zealot Benmergui: Be sure you plan out what you are going to do after the meeting, or if it doesn’t go well. I have known several women who arrived with no plan except to meet their one true love and work out the future then. Needless to say, that is a recipe for disaster. If think during the meeting that this is the man you want to spend the rest of your life making waffles for, then go home and take a week to think about it first. Make no decisions in the glow of that first meeting, or a post orgasmic haze.
[7:29] Zealot Benmergui: The last safety tip is really part of advance preperation....spy.
[7:30] Zealot Benmergui: google the man, call his workplace, check him out....make sure he is who he says.
[7:30] Zealot Benmergui: Investigate where you are going to meet, know where the nearest cab stand is, no where the nearest pay phone is...
[7:30] ***TV***: Demand a copy of a picture ID.
[7:30] Zealot Benmergui: Make sure your celphone gets reception there
[7:31] ***AP***: Tell someone where you are going!
[7:31] Zealot Benmergui: Nods...some for of ID, even if it does not reveal too many personal details, is good
[7:31] Zealot Benmergui: *form
[7:31] Zealot Benmergui: Now, many submnissives I have spoken to have one of two reactions, both of which are important to deal with
[7:32] ***HS***: tell your best friend the cellphone of his wife...
[7:32] Zealot Benmergui: the first is...."HE would NEVER do anything bad to me..he's my MASSSSTTEERRRRRRRR"
[7:32] Zealot Benmergui: I hesitate to remind you all, but most women who are physically abused or murdered in the world today, are abused or killed by who?
[7:32] ***RV***: someone they know
[7:33] Zealot Benmergui: A husband or a loved one...
[7:33] ***AP***: their nearest and dearest :)
[7:33] ***TF*** nods slowly
[7:33] ***TV***: The bodies of 6 submissives who fell prey to an online "Master" in Kansas were found in barrels in his basement about 11 years ago. They failed to investigate before leaping
[7:33] Zealot Benmergui: Secondly, many submissive say they would not want toplan so much in advance, as their master may feel they don;t trust them, or be offended.
[7:33] ***AP***: ooh must google that!
[7:34] Zealot Benmergui: To that I say very simply as a Dom, if your Master objects to you taking precaustions, they don;t meet him.
[7:34] ***RV***: nods
[7:34] ***TF*** nods
[7:34] Zealot Benmergui: He should be ENCOURAGING you to be sure, to be safe...a master must first and foremost protect you from HIMSELF in any scene...why would rl be different?
[7:35] Zealot Benmergui: A rl meeting can be a beautiful, powerful, perhaps life changing event for a couple..or it could be a nightmare....a little common sense and preperation will ***HS*** ensure that if it ISN'T a meeting of soul mates, then it is no worse then a rotton blind date
[7:35] Zealot Benmergui: *help
[7:36] Galaxy choker owned by ***HS*** gave you 'Owner Help' ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Chained%20lust/173/58/47 ).
[7:36] Zealot Benmergui: OK, that is all I have to say formally..now, begin the discussion and the anal probing
[7:36] ***TV***: Wonders how many hopes for an enduring D/s relationship have been dashed at that first meeting
[7:37] Zealot Benmergui: LOts and lots
[7:37] ***HS*** is Offline
[7:37] Zealot Benmergui: It can be very difficult, and with any couple, if there is ANY doubt that it is right, i advise them to wait
[7:37] ***MM*** blows a kiss to Sami
[7:38] ***TV***: Let's talk for a moment about the difficulties inherent in a single mom subbie with small children who wants to go RL with her SL Dom
[7:38] Zealot Benmergui: my mantra on this topic is If it is meant to be, it will STILL be meant to be when you are ready for it
[7:38] ***TV***: That's what I'm faced with
[7:38] Zealot Benmergui: As her Dom?
[7:38] ***TV***: yes
[7:38] Zealot Benmergui: if you are one of the kids, I am calling Linden Labs right now
[7:39] ***TV***: laughs
[7:39] River Kronfeld: lol, Zealot
[7:39] Zealot Benmergui: Then the responsibility is on you to safeguard both her, AND her kids
[7:39] Zealot Benmergui: Rush nothing, do EVERYTHING to make things secure, and gradual
[7:39] ***TV***: I'm not willing to confine all my D/s activities to our soundproof bedroom late at night though
[7:40] ***TE***: the thing is, all should be discussed before it reaches certain points, and if You want some one, You accept all that comes with them, if You cant, then i tisnt right for either of You
[7:40] Zealot Benmergui: that is what any D's couple with kids around has to face...that is no different
[7:40] ***VV***: nods
[7:40] ***GA*** raises her hand
[7:40] Zealot Benmergui: and as the father of a 9 year old who has begun to notice girls...I feel your pain
[7:40] ***VV***: is happy their last child is now off to college
[7:41] Zealot Benmergui: there have been weekend afternoons when in the fall way I have encountered him unexpectedly..."Oh, umm..this...well...I just have to pee REALLY bad...."
[7:41] Zealot Benmergui: *hallway
[7:41] Zealot Benmergui: Yes Miss***GA***
[7:41] ***RV***: lmao
[7:41] ***TV***: Even now, when we scene in SL, her children at won't to bang on her door saying: 'Mommy, are you ok?
[7:41] ***GA***: I have something pototiver to say about a RL meeting if I may?
[7:42] ***GA***: positive*
[7:42] Zealot Benmergui: certainly, then I wish to return to Mr. Volmerrs situation for a second
[7:42] ***GA***: I previously met someone RL that I met online. We had exchanged phone calls, photos, texts, emails for about 3 months before we met. There were no surprises. I chose the venue (I knew the place vagu***TE*** and knew my mobile worked there) and the days and time of day (early evening). He was an absolute gentleman and I was comfortable with him within minutes of meeting. It went very well and the time flew, in fact, when the time came for me to leave, he was very surprised that I actually did leave. The D/s relationship lasted 3 years and we only split up because of his change in circumstances.
[7:43] ***TF*** smiles
[7:43] Zealot Benmergui: nods...that is certainly the ideal, and it sounds like you bopth handled it perfectly
[7:43] ***TV***: wonderful ***GR***
[7:43] ***GA***: Basic common sense
[7:43] ***VV***: nice
[7:43] Zealot Benmergui: As for Mr. Vollmer's situation, there is no question that a rl meeting has to take into account the people around it...
[7:43] ***TE***: but if You meet in a bar...that isnt always safe too, there are drugs out there
[7:43] ***TF*** shakes head slightly "some street smarts too"
[7:44] Zealot Benmergui: children...spouses
[7:44] ***TV***: To be honest, I think my concern about small children around a D/s relationship has more to do with me having arrived at the tender age of 37 and avoided the parent trap so far
[7:44] Zealot Benmergui: after all, let's face it...at least a signifigant percentages of meeings based on online realtionships are extramarital
[7:45] Zealot Benmergui: How old are the kids?
[7:45] ***TV***: 17. 16 and 7
[7:45] Zealot Benmergui: well, the 17 and 16 year old..I guarentee, they could teach YOU some things
[7:45] ***TV***: no doubt. smile
[7:45] Zealot Benmergui: the 7 year old is more problematic, and you will need to handle it day by day....
[7:46] Zealot Benmergui: deferring at all times to HER concerning the kids
[7:46] ***TV***: oh yes!!!
[7:46] ***TV***: Never get between a mom an dher kids
[7:46] ***TV***: shudders
[7:46] Zealot Benmergui: I have seen masters walk into that situation and decide to give orders about the kids, her ex, whathave you
[7:46] ***TV***: big mistake
[7:46] ***TF*** shudders
[7:47] Zealot Benmergui: nods..she can be the most buttary smooth submissive, but if the issue concerns her kids...forger D/s
[7:47] Zealot Benmergui: *forget
[7:47] Zealot Benmergui: and that is the way it SHOULD be
[7:47] Zealot Benmergui: count on it, and plan for it
[7:47] ***TV***: of course. But can a good D/s relationship exist in such circumstances?
[7:47] Zealot Benmergui: absolut***TE***
[7:47] ***VV*** smiles.
[7:48] Zealot Benmergui: set the rules that are right for the two of you...don;t let anyone else dictate to you what your relationship SHOULD be
[7:48] ***TV***: Considers sedation for the 7 year old. Hmm
[7:48] ***RV*** agrees ... D/s always looks differed irl than it does in sl
[7:49] Zealot Benmergui: rl is...rl
[7:49] ***TV***: OK. That for the input A/all. I don't want to hog the discussion on this issue
[7:49] Zealot Benmergui: in SL kneeling means clicking a pose...in rl it means a bad knee and you left a pot on the stove and you don;t want the kids to see and where the fuck did I leave my cel phone
[7:49] ***VV***: grins
[7:50] ***RV***: exactly
[7:50] ***TV***: laughs
[7:50] ***ML***: i just wanted to add, that it's a good idea to maintain one's caution past the first meeting....the real person might not show up until the 3rd or 6th meeting
[7:50] Zealot Benmergui: Yes...very very true Miss ***ML***
[7:50] Zealot Benmergui: sad to say, there are predators amongst us
[7:50] Zealot Benmergui: and they are good at it
[7:50] Zealot Benmergui: they know to fly right until a woman's guard comes down
[7:51] Zealot Benmergui: or a man's for that matter
[7:51] ***VV***: nods
[7:51] ***TF*** nods
[7:51] Zealot Benmergui: for those of you who have a memory, I always have two words for any woman who feels that "Gee, we met, we had sex, I love him, all's good now"
[7:51] Zealot Benmergui: Scott Peterson.
[7:52] ***VV***: You really have to be able to verify the person's info, IMO.
[7:52] ***ML***: ..and perhaps worth noting that Doms too should have safety calls....a subbie with a knife can be a formidable psycho
[7:52] ***TE***: do the same rules apply if its a male sub and a Mistress?
[7:52] Zealot Benmergui: yes
[7:52] Zealot Benmergui: totally
[7:52] Zealot Benmergui: maybe a little more so
[7:52] ***VV***: nods
[7:52] Zealot Benmergui: There are realities to the way the real world views such things
[7:52] Zealot Benmergui: YOu meet your online master....
[7:52] Zealot Benmergui: it goes badly
[7:52] Zealot Benmergui: he rapes you
[7:52] ***GA***: The gender is unimportant, when two (or more) 'strangers' meet, the safegaurds have to be in place.
[7:52] Zealot Benmergui: you go to the cops
[7:53] Zealot Benmergui: he produces reams of online chats showing sexual activity
[7:53] Zealot Benmergui: you came to him, after all
[7:53] Zealot Benmergui: he produces IMs that indicate you KNEW sex was lik***TE***
[7:53] Zealot Benmergui: YOu think he will be arraigned?
[7:53] Zealot Benmergui: now reverse that..a Mistress rapes her male sub
[7:53] Zealot Benmergui: do you think and PD in the world will take that one seriously?
[7:54] ***MM***: yes I do
[7:54] Zealot Benmergui: *any?
[7:54] Zealot Benmergui: it will be a hard row to hoe...you willneed a l;ot of evidence..and lastly
[7:54] ***TE***: but a Mistress should be caucious to, the Male sub could be planning
[7:54] Zealot Benmergui: men are loathe to admit to be victims in that situation....even a submissive male
[7:55] ***MM***: wait...you're not encouraging people to NOT report rape are you?
[7:55] Zealot Benmergui: exactly Miss ***TE***
[7:55] Zealot Benmergui: ALL parties in thes situations should be careful
[7:55] Zealot Benmergui: do their homework, plan rationally
[7:55] ***GA***: No matter what has happened, if sex is non conscensual at the point it happens, it is rape and should awlays be taken seriously. Sadly, some have used such 'evidence' to stack the case in their defence. Is it unjust and unfair, but it has happened.
[7:55] ***TE***: but even the best planning can go wrong Sir
[7:55] ***VV***: It's not just about force, per se. A sub may not have the wherewithal to refuse, even those s/he may be uncomfortable with moving ahead to the physical.
[7:55] Zealot Benmergui: yes
[7:56] Zealot Benmergui: the best laid plans go awry..all you can do is improve your odds...and trust yourinstincts
[7:56] ***VV***: Many subs find it hard to be less than perfectlycompliant, regretting it later.
[7:56] Zealot Benmergui: and yes Miss ***VV***...but proving non violent rape is even harder
[7:56] ***VS***: but there are also many forms of regret
[7:56] Zealot Benmergui: YOu were rapoed,,,because you couldn;t bring yourself to say no...
[7:56] ***GA***: And that's why the 1st, 2nd, 3rd (whatever it takes) meetings should be in a public place and non sexual.
[7:57] ***ML***: those pre-scheduled safety calls can really help though....even in breaking you out of that compliant space long enough to get away
[7:57] ***TE***: if it happened for ***TE***, she would tak someone with her on the first few meets
[7:57] ***RV***: exactly, ***GR***
[7:57] Zealot Benmergui: nods..friends, calls, all are good to make sure you stay grounded
[7:57] Zealot Benmergui: you don;t want to be swept into a fantasy
[7:57] ***TV***: Interesting that we take far greater precautions in BDSM meetings than we would for, say, a normal blind date a friend arranges for us.
[7:57] ***MM*** raises her hand
[7:57] ***GA***: Believe, me, if the two people involved are genuine, these precautions will be valued by both.
[7:57] Zealot Benmergui: yes Miss ***MM***
[7:58] ***GA***: It protects both.
[7:58] ***VV***: these regrets and over compliant responses are also something that a sub should watch for, for if they tend to veer into this online then it will almost assuredly be worse in RL. So it is important for a sub to know when they are truly ready to meet their dominant.
[7:58] ***MM***: you're not actually telling someone NOT to report rape are you? Even if the case isn't the greatest if the person has a prior history of such behavior THAT can be used as evidence as well
[7:58] Zealot Benmergui: no...I must be clear on that
[7:59] ***MM***: and yes...I have seen many consentual sex situations that went bad prosecuted successfully
[7:59] Zealot Benmergui: ALWAYS report rape..just do your best to make sure you are not in a situation that will make proving it very very difficult
[7:59] Zealot Benmergui: and as always, the best way to deal with rape is to avoid a situation that makes you vulnerable if you can
[7:59] ***MM***: not just that...there are tons of resources out there for the people that report them
[7:59] ***MM***: and you will need some help
[7:59] Zealot Benmergui: these days yes, that has improved
[8:00] Zealot Benmergui: but there is still a public stigma about BDSM
[8:00] Zealot Benmergui: most people assume BDSM is ABOUT wanting to be raped
[8:00] Zealot Benmergui: when you know the odds would be stacked against you, be more careful
[8:01] ***VW***: i'm thinking about what VV said. I would say that a 'no' has to be ignored for it to be rape
[8:01] ***MM***: not necessarily
[8:01] ***VW***: i am thinking
[8:01] ***VW***: interesting
[8:01] ***VW***: hmmm
[8:01] Zealot Benmergui: there are cases where it has been proven that someone was psycologically unable to say no
[8:01] Zealot Benmergui: but it is hard, and lengthy, and ugly
[8:02] ***GA***: If we are talking about an intital meeting where real limits have yet to be worked out
[8:02] ***TV***: You know if you were "raped" by a Dom, one has to wonder if he was truly a Dom to begin with or mer***TE*** a sexual stalker
[8:02] ***VW***: i guess in that case they were not fit to consent at all
[8:02] ***VV***: Correct.
[8:02] ***MM***: that's the point of reporting it...they are predators and odds are they will do it again or have before
[8:02] ***GA***: Then it would be at the very least irrissponsible of the person who ignores a "no"
[8:02] ***VV***: Some are simply not secure enough to be able to say no.
[8:03] ***GA***: Against the SSC code
[8:03] ***GA***: And therefore rape
[8:03] ***VV***: A skilled dominant ought to know who they have in the palm of their hand.
[8:03] ***VW***: i have to feel sorry for all in that situation though
[8:03] ***VV***: and act accordingly - or NOT
[8:03] ***VW***: pitty they didn't stay home
[8:03] Zealot Benmergui: now I am not qualified to comment on the full legal spectrum concerning consensual rape...nor can I comment on the power fo consent in a legal fashion...
[8:03] ***GA***: Skilled does not figure in a first meeting
[8:03] Zealot Benmergui: and I do want to remind you that in most cases, rl meetings, if and when they happen, go just fine....
[8:04] Zealot Benmergui: we are talking worst case, and prevention of trouble
[8:04] ***GA***: That's why B/both involved need to take time, plan ahead, enjoy the ini***TE***l meeting(s) for what they are.
[8:04] Zealot Benmergui: this is so I don't get flamed by all your masters saying "YOu told my girl I'm a RAPIST you fuck!"
[8:05] ***ML***: on that note, i'll add that my rl Master and i met online 9 years ago, and are still together
[8:05] ***RV***: lol
[8:05] ***VV***: It figures in every situation, IMO, and I am not talking about the skill of tying a knot. I am talking about the ability to discern, to open up the door to the submissive's heart and mind, and to create enough communication so that even a reticent sub will be able to confess their deepest fears.
[8:05] Zealot Benmergui: all are valuable skills....
[8:05] Zealot Benmergui: but remember, Doms are people too...
[8:05] ***AP***: nods
[8:06] ***GA***: I understand what you're saying V, but one can be a seasoned pro of many years and still now nothing about the person in his hand at that ini***TE***l stage.
[8:06] Zealot Benmergui: at a first meeting with a woman, most men, Dom or no Dom, are lucky if they can remember their name and how not to get tortellini on their tie
[8:06] ***AP*** agrees with ***GR***!
[8:06] ***VV***: you're right ***GR***, it sure does take time
[8:06] Fallingwater Cellardoor is Online
[8:06] ***GA***: It takes time to understand the person and his or her limits, desires etc. Both dom and sub.
[8:07] ***GA***: The in***TE***l meeting is still a part of the beginning
[8:07] ***GA***: Something very wonderful if handled right - for both
[8:07] Zealot Benmergui: don;t expect the entire bneautiful rainbow of D/s experience to open up for you when your master says hi to you in rl for the first time..no angels will sing, no heights will wuther
[8:07] ***VV***: heh heh
[8:07] ***GA***: But is it a beginning only
[8:08] Zealot Benmergui: nods...and to quote Dune...the beginning is a very delicate time.
[8:08] Zealot Benmergui: good lord, I just got spammed by a SHOE
[8:08] ***MM***: lol we all did
[8:08] ***TV***: As did I.
[8:08] ***RV***: lol
[8:08] ***AP*** laughs ...as she runs for the shoe shop!
[8:08] ***VV***: holy cow
[8:08] ***VS***: hehe
[8:08] Zealot Benmergui: footwear is becoming awfully cheeky these days
[8:09] ***GA***: lol
[8:09] ***GA*** wonders if it's a good time to ask for a new pair of Jimmy's
[8:09] ***ML*** is Offline
[8:09] Zealot Benmergui: let me do paraphrase a few essen***TE***l points we have gone over and that have been brought into the discussion
[8:09] Zealot Benmergui: DO take precaustions
[8:09] Zealot Benmergui: DO do your homework
[8:10] Zealot Benmergui: DON'T keep it all secret
[8:10] Zealot Benmergui: DO report it to police if you are hurt, threatened or abused
[8:10] Zealot Benmergui: DO be open to the experience
[8:10] Zealot Benmergui: DO remember it is a beginning, no matter how long you have been together online
[8:10] ***TV***: (Don't try to carry a flooger through airport security)
[8:11] ***VV***: ha ha ha
[8:11] Zealot Benmergui: big DON'T
[8:11] ***GA*** laughs
[8:11] ***VW***: sounds like a dom should be sure of consent also
[8:11] Zealot Benmergui: had a girl take a vibrator through airport security once
[8:11] Zealot Benmergui: oh good lord
[8:11] ***RV***: grins
[8:11] ***MM***: rofl you just can't have batteries in them
[8:11] Zealot Benmergui: this was international security
[8:11] ***TV***: voice of experience
[8:11] Zealot Benmergui: out of themiddle east
[8:11] ***MM***: oh yeah probably a bad idea
[8:11] ***VV***: oh my
[8:11] ***VV***: lol
[8:12] Zealot Benmergui: the pratcially told her to cum to prove what it was
[8:12] ***TV***: I was caught with a flogger once and told them I was a large animal trainer
[8:12] Zealot Benmergui: *they practically
[8:12] ***RV***: hahhaha
[8:12] ***GA***: oooooooohh yet another of my fantasies
[8:12] ***MM***: believe me, most of those guys KNOW what it is
[8:12] Zealot Benmergui: long story...and yeah, they knew...gotta spice up the day somehow
[8:12] ***TV***: Well, I can't see hijacking a lane with a flogger
[8:12] ***TV***: plane
[8:13] Zealot Benmergui: Mr. ***VW*** brought up an excellent poijnt
[8:13] ***VS***: mmm
[8:13] Zealot Benmergui: Yes a Dom should make sure of consent, every step of the way
[8:13] Zealot Benmergui: right down to"Can I touch you like this"
[8:13] Zealot Benmergui: forget Dom, forget Sub, think FIRST DATE
[8:14] ***GA***: Yes. But there are many ways of asking.
[8:14] ***GA***: Not neccassarily verbal
[8:14] ***VW***: i can't agree
[8:14] Zealot Benmergui: that depends on the personality of the man and the woman, or the man and the man, or whichever
[8:14] ***GA***: If the sub is naked, vulnerable and in sexual play
[8:14] ***VW***: not if you end up in gaol for it
[8:14] ***GA***: Then she / he wants to be there
[8:14] ***GA***: It's already conscensual
[8:14] Zealot Benmergui: nods...most lik***TE***, but it is still not bad to be sure
[8:15] ***GA***: And why not make the 'asking' part of the 'game'?
[8:15] Zealot Benmergui: I have never been with a woman, who as submissive as she wasm didn;t know how to ask for more when she was ready for it
[8:15] ***GA***: I would find that sooooooooo wonderful
[8:15] Zealot Benmergui: and how to say Yes if asked
[8:15] ***GA***: Relaxing, endearing, winning my trust, giving my trust gradually and with confidence.
[8:15] Zealot Benmergui: making the asking part of the Domination is an excellent approach
[8:16] ***TF*** smiles
[8:16] Zealot Benmergui: after all, making a sub beg for something is a standard artifice, and that is just an extreme form of asking consent
[8:16] Zealot Benmergui: use the tools you have
[8:17] Zealot Benmergui: just don;t use those damn shoes
[8:17] ***RV***: lol
[8:17] Arden Hax: stop with the spam please
[8:17] ***TF***: lol
[8:17] ***AP***: ***EN***, are you wearing 7 heels classic pumps, by any chance?
[8:17] ****EN***: no
[8:17] ***MM***: it's someone trying to log on and failing I think
[8:17] ***AP***: Sorry the other ***EN***! :)
[8:17] ****EN***: ohh
[8:17] ***AP***: ***EN*** Constantine...Sorry ****EN***! :)
[8:17] ****EN***: ok :-)
[8:18] ****EN***: my footwear is silent
[8:18] Zealot Benmergui: there are many success stories that are connected to rl meetings, the vast majority to my knowledge
[8:19] Zealot Benmergui: but as the ones that aren;t success stories can easily result in rape, death, diosfigurment and disgrace....they are worth planning for
[8:19] Zealot Benmergui: there is a big upside to rl meetings...but a vast downside as well
[8:19] Zealot Benmergui: one other point I wish to emphasise
[8:19] Zealot Benmergui: remember to consider where you go AFTER the rl meeting
[8:20] Zealot Benmergui: ok, it was magical, you met after a year or two online
[8:20] ***VV***: I met someone in Rl and it was great because it told me that the chemistry that existed online simply wasn't going to happen in RL.
[8:20] ***TV***: I think the vast majority of D/s people wish to simply maintain all the lov***TE*** fantasies of SL without the risk of RL meeting
[8:20] ***VV***: so it was complet***TE*** worthwhile
[8:20] Zealot Benmergui: three days in a resort hotel, first day just getting to know each other, then mind blowing sex, your true nature finally unlocked, bells whistles, exploring kittens, yadd ayadda
[8:20] ***VS***: mm, excuse me, a question though
[8:20] Zealot Benmergui: *exploding
[8:21] Zealot Benmergui: when comes next...will your online relationship go back to what it had been?
[8:21] ***MM***: eww exploding kittens?
[8:21] Zealot Benmergui: OK, I may have a few,,,special fetishes
[8:21] Zealot Benmergui: sue me
[8:21] ***VV***: grins
[8:21] ***MM*** draws up a Petition
[8:21] ***TF***: I think ***VS*** has a question
[8:21] Zealot Benmergui: certainly Miss ***VS***
[8:22] ***VS***: thank you, it's about what ***VV*** just daid actually
[8:22] ***VS***: if you meet and discover zero rl chemistry, doesnt that end the sl relationsuip then?
[8:22] Zealot Benmergui: yes?
[8:22] Zealot Benmergui: a very good question
[8:23] Zealot Benmergui: can the genie go back in the bottle?
[8:23] ***VV***: Well, in our case, we are still good friends.
[8:23] Fallingwater Cellardoor is Online
[8:23] ***VV***: But it IS sad, I must admit.
[8:23] Zealot Benmergui: but was the thrill gone online, so to speak?
[8:23] ***VV***: It was big dsappointment.
[8:23] ***TV***: V. Perhaps you didn't give the RL part enough time?
[8:23] ***VV***: Yes, it is gone.
[8:23] ***VV***: Oh no, we were together over a year.
[8:24] Zealot Benmergui: Mr. Vollmer's pointis then very valid...perhaps there is something to be said for preserving the online fantqasy
[8:24] ***VV***: It is just not going to happen, simple, and time to just love each other as best we can forever and move the hell on.
[8:24] Zealot Benmergui: if you are getting what you need emotionally from an online relationship, why try to fix what isn't broken
[8:24] ***VV***: I will always love him. That will never change.
[8:24] ***VV***: nods to Z
[8:24] ***VV***: sometimes it is best to leave it in the box
[8:25] ***VV***: meeting irl can change everything
[8:25] ***VV***: you need to be ready for every possibilty while trying as best you can to not overthink it
[8:25] Zealot Benmergui: a delicate balance
[8:26] Zealot Benmergui: of course, what relationship isn't
[8:26] ***VS***: indeed
[8:26] ***VV***: you can suck the spontaneity out complet***TE***, so it is a tough balancing act, like so many other things in life
[8:26] Zealot Benmergui: they say you can only find peace if you prepare for war
[8:26] Zealot Benmergui: relationship wise, you can only find happiness if you remember you are lik***TE*** to get your lungs burned out
[8:26] ***VV***: grins
[8:26] ***VV***: true, Z
[8:27] Zealot Benmergui: just because you are wearing silks and your boyfriend is wearing leather pants and a bad mullet...it's still true
[8:27] ***TV***: And a codpiece is definit***TE*** out of place in a public park
[8:27] Fallingwater Cellardoor is Offline
[8:27] ***RV***: bad mullet .... i think that's a bit redundant
[8:27] ***VV*** laughs
[8:27] Zealot Benmergui: depends on the park
[8:28] ***VS***: mm, it depends where you live
[8:28] Zealot Benmergui: I have been in some where a codpiece is tame
[8:28] ***MM*** wants to go to those parks
[8:28] Zealot Benmergui: South Tel Aviv, Tel baruch Mirkaz
[8:28] Zealot Benmergui: Tell them Zealot sent you
[8:28] ***VV***: smiles and calls her travel agent
[8:29] Zealot Benmergui: make sure you stretch out first
[8:29] ***TV***: Z. You have a tip jar???
[8:29] Zealot Benmergui: Nah, this is a free service...
[8:30] Zealot Benmergui: if you get lucky at tel baruch however, don;t blame me about the pencillian
[8:30] ***TV***: You've clearly worked hard on this presentation. My compliments
[8:30] ***VV***: nods
[8:30] ***RV***: the girls usually slide the tips under his belt
[8:30] ***TV***: lol
[8:30] ***VV***: Yes, quite good, well thought-out.
[8:30] ***GA*** laughs
[8:30] Zealot Benmergui: as for the rest of this week
[8:31] ***GA***: Thank you Z for your time, effort and ability to keep us all in order.
[8:31] ***GA*** appluads gently
[8:31] ***VV*** smiles.
[8:31] Zealot Benmergui: Pirate will not be offering her lectures on wednesday and thursday this week
[8:31] Zealot Benmergui: next week, I will be off for the Sukkot holiday, so Payne will be subbing me I think
[8:31] Zealot Benmergui: the week after, I will not be in my normal Monday slot, but Thursday
[8:31] Zealot Benmergui: same time
[8:32] ***TF*** smiles "thank you sir"
[8:32] ***RV***: crazy schedules, lol
[8:32] Zealot Benmergui: that lecture will be "All things Dark and Dangerous: An introduction to Shadowplay"
[8:32] ***VV***: mmm
[8:32] ***RV***: thank you Z ... wonderful, as usual
[8:32] ***MM***: shadowplay...that's fingerpuppets and a flashlight right?
[8:32] Zealot Benmergui: my pleasure, thank you all for an excellent discussion
[8:32] Zealot Benmergui: puppets yes..but not on the finger
[8:33] ***MM*** laughs