Is it supposed to be this SOFT?: Right and wrong D/S 9/22/08

[7:12] Zealot Benmergui: Welcome A/all to the House of V’s College of Kink. My name is Zealot Benmergui, Baron BardHaven and I will be your host today. The topic for today is “Is it supposed to be this SOFT?”: Right and wrong D/s. We will be considering how one can do D/s wrong, and the questions to ask yourself to find out if you are doing it right. We will also try to put to rest some of our normal nagging misconceptions about D/s. Please note that for the purpose of clarity, I will tend to use “she” to refer to a submissive and “he” to refer to a Dominant, but either can be of any gender.
[7:12] ***AP***: Hello, sorry I'm a little late...Do excuse me
[7:12] Zealot Benmergui: ***GH***...can you hear me dear?
[7:12] ***GA*** vacates her seat for ***LG***
[7:13] ***GH***: yes i can,,sorry Sir was afk
[7:13] ***EC*** smiles tenderly at Gabrielle
[7:13] Zealot Benmergui: good..just checking chat range
[7:14] Zealot Benmergui: Now, once you hear my first comment on this subject, don;t throw objects at me right off..and I don't mean panties. You can throw those anytime..I mean, sharp, hurtful things...
[7:14] Zealot Benmergui: Having a slave or a Master can often be like having a baby.
[7:14] ***TN*** laughs!
[7:14] ***LG*** gulps " no one said panties were needed "
[7:14] ***RV***: lol
[7:14] Zealot Benmergui: Now I am not referring to diaperplay, or the tendency for daddy to spank…rather to the reaction of the people around you. If you have ever carried a baby through a crowded shopping mall, either your own or one that was left unattended outside the Walmart, you will know that EVERYBODY assumes they can give you advice since you are clearly doing it wrong. “You should cover its head when it is this cold”, “Isn’t that jumper too hot for spring?” “Asshole, you dress him in frilly shit like that he’ll end up a homo” “If you sauté it in white wine before braising it won’t have that gamey after taste”.
[7:15] Zealot Benmergui: Everyone has an opinion, and they feel perfectly entitled to share it with you..after all..you have a baby.
[7:15] ***TN***: haha, I think that begins from the moment they see you are pregnant!
[7:16] Zealot Benmergui: NO, pregnant you get the horror stories
[7:16] ***GH***: so true
[7:16] Zealot Benmergui: "MY sister in law carried her second baby that low...the one that killed her,"
[7:16] ***TN*** grins, "Yes that too Sir!"
[7:17] ***LG*** wonders what if she doesnt want a baby but wants a Master ..but now learns it like having a baby and is now confused
[7:17] ***GH***: for some reason people love to scare you when your pregnant,,,with my first they scard the shit out of me
[7:17] Zealot Benmergui: anyway....moving back to the metaphor
[7:17] ***LG*** twirls her hair and looks for the handouts
[7:17] Zealot Benmergui: Having a slave or a Master can be like that. EVERYONE assumes you are doing it wrong, and that you really want them to set you straight.
[7:17] Zealot Benmergui: “Are you going to let her talk to You like that?” “Do you have such a low self esteem that you think you are inferior to some Metallica reject wearing a leather codpiece?” “You need more backswing on that whip, mate…” “You are just role players if she doesn’t ask you to write out her grocery lists for her” “My Master could beat up your Master” “In Port Blarsh we let no Man rule slutflesh until he has bested a starving Palutz in single and terrible combat…just put on the HUD, click Fight and have at it, girlyman” “MY GOD YOU ARE LETTING THAT WHORE WEAR CLOTHING…YOU MADMAN!!!!”
[7:18] Zealot Benmergui: Everybody is eager to tell you everything you are doing wrong.
[7:18] ***RV*** chuckles
[7:18] ***LG*** wonders why everyone is wearing clothing
[7:18] ***wA***: * lauhgs at the ast one
[7:18] ***wA***: i dont
[7:19] Zealot Benmergui: There seems to be so many ways to do D/s wrong, one wonders if there is a way to do it right? Well, the answer is quite simple…
[7:19] Zealot Benmergui: ”It depends”.
[7:19] Zealot Benmergui: What is right and what is wrong is totally dependent on your relationship, and what both the Dom and the sub require from it. We are each different, we each have different needs. When those needs are met, it is “right”…when they are not, I don’t care if the Master has 30 years experience and the slave is a text book perfect submissive..it is STILL wrong.
[7:20] ***RK***: i agree 100%
[7:20] Zealot Benmergui: Of course, identifying something that is wrong is only part of it, identifying something right is shockingly hard.
[7:20] Zealot Benmergui: We all tend to be a bit pessamistic relationship wise
[7:20] Zealot Benmergui: We are always waiting for the piano to fall.
[7:21] ***PM***: no shit
[7:21] ***PM***: :)
[7:21] Zealot Benmergui: Our seemingly loving sub says "meep meep", sprints away, and we are left eating fallen mountainside
[7:22] Zealot Benmergui: How then do you know if something is right? Well, I suggest asking yourself certain questions.
[7:22] Zealot Benmergui: The first couple tend to work best in new relationships, but as always, your milage may vary.
[7:22] ***LG*** practises saying MEEP MEEP
[7:23] Zealot Benmergui glances at Miss ***LG***..."Best keep an eye on that one, she seems tricksey"
[7:23] Zealot Benmergui: The first and most obvious question is also the hardest. “What do I need from this relationship?” You may just want sex from a D/s relationship, or a sort of intimate friendship, or some kinky discipline…all of that is just as valid as those who are seeking a “soulmate” or a 24/7 master.
[7:23] ***LG*** looks up and looks over at Sir ***RK***
[7:23] Zealot Benmergui: There are lots of smaller questions inside that first one, including “Do I need to be collared.” “Do I need an exclusive relationship”…even “Do I need the relationship to be sexual”. Yes, a D/s relationship can be non-sexual. I have known several that are completely chaste. We tend to assume that D/s is at core sexual, in some ways since it is the easiest way to describe the emotional power and ramifications of the bond…but that intimacy can be expressed in many many ways, some of which involve wearing clothing.
[7:24] Zealot Benmergui: Equally as important, and just as difficult, is “What do I need to avoid in a relationship?” We all carry with us a certain amount of baggage. Just as every general is fighting the last war, so we are all fucking the last lover in any new relationship. We should always try to be aware of what we don’t want from a master or a sub, and do our best to be very clear about it from the very beginning.
[7:25] Zealot Benmergui: We all have things we hate in relationships, things we know we can’t handle, or that once the glow of new love fades, will have us digging through the cutlery drawer at 3 AM muttering “Blood” over and over again in Latin. We also have scars, nerves, left over from old hands and old wounds. The same is true for Sl as it is for RL. If we are direct and honest about such things, with both our self and our partner, we will save a lot of pain and confusion down the line.
[7:27] Zealot Benmergui: Once we have at least a working knowledge of those two questions, we need to dig into particulars. What sort of discipline do you prefer, what sort of public behavior, what sort of private. We have no way to be able to judge if a relationship is right for us, until we understand what IS right for us. Everyone loves being spontaneous…but I have never seen it work terribly well where love is concerned..and even less well with anything that involves an erection or an open flame.
[7:27] Zealot Benmergui: Far better to be careful, and communicative then it is to be spontaneous.
[7:28] ***OS***: ciau
[7:28] You decline Radio, Welsh Lakes (133, 132, 23) from A group member named Darkle Sands.
[7:28] Zealot Benmergui: Then of course, once we have thought all of that into the ground, and have drawn ourselves a picture of our perfect master or submissive, all ready to be cast in bronze…we need to remember such questions are most effective when starting a NEW relationship...how can we judge a relationship in progress. Is it right or wrong? Does it matter if momentum is enough to carry you along?
[7:28] Zealot Benmergui: The questions we ask about a relationship in progress are even more important than the others I have mentioned. They seem obvious, but in the heat of the moment they are very easy to lose track of.
[7:29] Zealot Benmergui: “Am I happy?” “Do I feel safe?” “Does my partner make me smile, laugh, moan…do they make me respond?” Do I gain something from this relationship that I value, that I would not have without it?” “Do I feel loved?” “Do I feel important to my Master or sub” “Are my needs (see a few paragraphs back) being met…can I meet THEIR needs?”
[7:30] Zealot Benmergui: "Do I feel i can share the answers to these questions with my Dom or sub?" "Would they be able to share their answers with me?"
[7:31] Zealot Benmergui: All of these questions are pieces to a puzzle....a puzzle that often we can;t see unless we step back from it so we can look at all of it, at once.
[7:31] Zealot Benmergui: The way you know if you are doing D/s right is no different then it is in any emotional relationship...does it FEEL right?
[7:32] Zealot Benmergui: If it does feel right to both you and your partner, and if the answers to these questions, and any others that you feel relevant to you, please you...then it doesn;t matter what anyone else says.
[7:33] Zealot Benmergui: Let them do what they want with THEIR baby...you are taking care of yours just right.
[7:33] Zealot Benmergui: and with that, as always, I open the floor to comments, discussion, verbal abuse and group sex
[7:33] ***RV***: lol
[7:33] ***GA*** laughs softly
[7:33] ***LG*** grins as she thinks but does not speak
[7:34] ***ML*** moans softly..
[7:34] ***PM***: *Perk*
[7:34] Zealot Benmergui: There she goes again
[7:34] ***PM***: That was to the group sex comment, but the moan was nice too Merc.
[7:35] Zealot Benmergui: Well, let me ask this...does anyone have a relationship thermometer? A certain feeling or question which you use to gauge how things are in a relationship?
[7:35] ***NB***: is this class over?
[7:35] ***RV***: what's the best way to deal with people who want to tell you why you're doing it wrong?
[7:35] ***ML*** giggles
[7:35] Zealot Benmergui: Depends onhow they say it..if they mean well and are polite..say Thank you and smile
[7:35] Zealot Benmergui: if not, say Fuck You and go for your large pointy thing
[7:35] ***PM***: I think we're back on Humble
[7:35] ***RV***: lol
[7:36] ***EC***: I know inside when it feels right, just find it hard to describe
[7:36] ***RK***: as ever Zealot, what you say crystallises common sense
[7:37] ***GA***: ***RV***, I would usually respond with a polite smile and a calm voice saying "Thank you for sharing you're opinion." Anything else migth just provoke and endless debate that I really would not want.
[7:37] ***RK***: and i agree 100% that every relationship is different and the only ones who can say if it is right or not, are the participants PROVIDED they are open and honest with each other
[7:37] ***RV*** nods
[7:37] ***EC***: totally open and honest :-)
[7:37] Zealot Benmergui: Miss ***ML***, will you please say Communication?
[7:37] ***ML***: of course Sir
[7:37] ***ML***: COMMUNICATION
[7:38] ***ML*** smiles brightly
[7:38] Zealot Benmergui: Somewhere, Pirate just shivered
[7:38] ***RV*** chuckles .... now Pirate will be happy
[7:38] ***PM***: so much for the soft moan. :(
[7:38] ***ML***: ohhh am still moanin lightly in tiff ear .. thats why she is quiet ;)
[7:38] Zealot Benmergui: Communication is certainly essential...but it also helps to do the heavy lifting for yourself..be honest, think things through
[7:39] ***ML***: what if you have a very very shy sub that has a problem communicating?
[7:40] Zealot Benmergui: then that needs to be adressed early and often
[7:40] ***RK***: then its the job of the Dom/me to encourage that shy sub
[7:40] ***EC***: If you can't find a way of communicating effectively between the two of you I can't see there is much point
[7:40] Zealot Benmergui: make it part of their submission
[7:40] ***ML***: how?
[7:40] ***RK***: to increase their feeling of security so that they CAN voice their feelings
[7:40] Zealot Benmergui: don;t let her cum until she tells you how she is, if anything is bothering her
[7:41] ***RK***: hmmm, my way would be diferent, but same result
[7:41] ***GA*** raises her right eyebrow
[7:41] Zealot Benmergui: effectively, I just feel that anything is better when it ends with dessert or an orgasm
[7:41] ***EC*** smiles at Gabrielle
[7:41] ***RK*** looks at gabrielle's left eyebrow
[7:41] ***LG***: what if the sub is not quite sure of all of what they want out of it all does that fall back to the Dom to assist or should you hve clear needs and wants first ?
[7:41] ***ML*** licks her lips at banana splits
[7:41] ***LG***: you not meaning you of course
[7:42] ***GA*** smiles and raises both eyebrows and hides her pot of tirumisu
[7:42] ***RV***: i think it's part of your responsibility to figure out what you want
[7:42] ***LG*** smiles
[7:42] ***EC***: lol
[7:42] ***RK***: tiramisu???????
[7:42] ***RK*** groans with anticipation
[7:42] Zealot Benmergui: well..no one knows EVERYTHING...but often it does fall toa good Dom to help a sub answer those questions..or to make their own judgements based on their actions and responses
[7:42] ***LG***: of course but you must have some experiences to learn
[7:42] Zealot Benmergui: Easy their sailor
[7:42] Zealot Benmergui: *there
[7:43] ***RK***: lol
[7:43] Zealot Benmergui: *nods..I agree completely Miss ***LG***..which is another good reason not to rush into a collar
[7:43] ***ML***: yes
[7:43] Zealot Benmergui: it seems that many D/s coupoes these days are going back to Ozzie and harriet, only a bit more out there
[7:44] ***LG***: yes .........
[7:44] Zealot Benmergui: "No, the crotchless panties do not come off until the leather dog collar goes ON, you pervert
[7:44] ***RV*** laughs
[7:44] ***LG***: or it becomes like a vanilla relationship ..all ewwy goooey
[7:44] ***RK***: lol
[7:44] ***GA*** laughs and then tingles
[7:44] ***EC***: I like goooey
[7:45] ***NB***: if someone wants to have an exclusive or commited relationship, thats not something to mock
[7:45] ***LG***: can I bring yu all my goooey ***EC***
[7:45] ***EC*** sits thinking about ***LG***'s request
[7:45] ***RK***: lol, ***LG***
[7:45] Zealot Benmergui: We will set up a gooey recycling depot
[7:45] ***ML***: no but lets say they want that when the Master gets another sub.. its very difficult to work with a pet that is mono and a Master that is poly
[7:46] ***NB***: if someone doesnt want to offer free samples to every pervert in sl that isnt something to mock either
[7:46] ***LG***: course not ...would not mock anyone
[7:46] Zealot Benmergui: I agree with 13...it is not something to mock...but neither is a collar a first step in a relationship
[7:46] ***LG*** writes down NO MOCKING
[7:46] ***PM***: I would mock anyone, but I'd do it to their face. :)
[7:47] Zealot Benmergui: I certainly don;t feel that a sub should hit the ole furs with every overly developed studpuppy named Grundar they may come across
[7:47] ***LG***: I am going to need more paper
[7:47] Zealot Benmergui: But I do feel that a relationship needs to be discussed and explored before it becomes formalized
[7:48] ***RK***: generally Zealot, I agree, but sometimes, you just "click"
[7:48] Zealot Benmergui: in order to see, first and foremost, if it SHOULD be formalized
[7:48] ***PM***: back to the nurturing comment and throwing in the vail of vanilla ... I think its teh person beneath the Dom/Domme who provides a certain degree of support in a healthy relationship. So .. we all need a bit of Goo to tie all this together
[7:48] ***ML***: oki lets say you have discussed the relationship before its formalized, you give a trial period , then formalize it then the pet changes?
[7:48] ***LG***: do you communicate all this out before you begin or as you go along ?
[7:49] ***RK***: you can never communicate it ALL before you start
[7:49] Zealot Benmergui: nods...we have all had those ***RK***...one minute ou are saying hello the next you are telling them how you never got over watching your puppy being eaten by your big sister when you were 3...
[7:49] ***GA***: That discussion has to be both ways though and is a gradual process of learning, a continual process.
[7:49] ***RK***: the D/s relationship is always a learning process
[7:49] ***GH***: you cant have control over how you feel weeks later
[7:49] ***LG***: yes of course but the fundamentals
[7:50] Zealot Benmergui: someone can always change...it happens in collaring, it happens in marriages...in those cases, either work it out, or end it...
[7:50] ***EC***: I know I grow as my relationship develops
[7:50] ***ML***: of course!
[7:50] ***TN*** nods...yes, any relationship changes over time regardless of the type
[7:51] ***GA***: ***LG***, it is very important to be able to at least talk openly about the fundementals.
[7:51] ***LG***: but if you as a sub tell the Dom all the things you expect need and want doesnt it sort of take the control bit away ......you are telling them how to Dom you ?
[7:51] ***GA***: I've known doms in the past who refuse to give personal details
[7:51] ***GA***: They use the 'Master' card
[7:52] Zealot Benmergui: well..master's tend to each view such things differently...
[7:52] ***TN*** prefers Visa instead of "Master" card
[7:52] ***GA***: By saying that you're not sub if you can't be patient enough to wait until he is ready to give you that info
[7:52] ***GA***: And in my opinion
[7:52] ***GA***: That's a red light
[7:52] ***RV*** agrees
[7:53] Zealot Benmergui: It can be a concern
[7:53] ***GA***: So talk through the details, take time to dicover mutually
[7:53] ***GA***: If you are unsure of your needs, be honest about that too
[7:53] ***GA***: I know I have things I'm not sure about
[7:53] Zealot Benmergui: No, don;t expect his wife's cel phone nymber and his pension plan figures...but a name, some general background..those seem reasonable in a relationship
[7:53] ***TN***: If a Dom uses the 'Master' card on you, I would reconsider the relationship. They have to care about you above all else. If He or She doesn't show that, I'd be a bit apprehensive
[7:53] ***GA***: But I would discuss them slowly when know I can trust the dom
[7:54] Zealot Benmergui: if he insists that you must only relate to him as Lord Thundercock Schickengruber, First Sword of Phut...back away slowly
[7:54] ***TN***: hahaha
[7:54] ***GA***: And doms too, deserve to know the subs feelings. They don't have crystals balls.
[7:54] ***GA***: I hope lol
[7:54] ***LG***: I think I met Thundercock