Dolly's, Hypnosis & Pets 9/29/08

[2008/09/29 7:07] Payne Samiam: I only have a couple of rules in class, please keep all chat to im's while i'm doing the first part of my talk although if anything or everything I say doesn't make sense then feel free to ask.
[2008/09/29 7:08] Payne Samiam: I am pretty informal I have a sort of plan but it usually doesn't last past 5 minutes.
[2008/09/29 7:08] Payne Samiam smiles
[2008/09/29 7:08] ***ZF***: Oh, pardon me ladies.
[2008/09/29 7:09] ***GG***: gently nudges ***ZF*** out of the way
[2008/09/29 7:09] ***AP***: *sniggers*
[2008/09/29 7:09] Payne Samiam: Also if anyone wishes to talk to me about anything discussed here I am happy to do so feel free to frienship me, my IM list sometimes gets lonely.
[2008/09/29 7:09] Payne Samiam: Is everyone ready ?
[2008/09/29 7:09] ***GG***: yes
[2008/09/29 7:09] ***GH*** nods
[2008/09/29 7:09] ***EC***: yes
[2008/09/29 7:09] ***AP***: Thank you, Sir
[2008/09/29 7:09] ***ML*** smiles and waves.. ready to go
[2008/09/29 7:10] Payne Samiam: Woot!! yay erm *dances about* erm yeah I R Master should be Professional hehe.
[2008/09/29 7:10] Payne Samiam: I've been exploring the naughty side of life for about 12 years.
[2008/09/29 7:11] ***CU***: grettings all
[2008/09/29 7:12] Payne Samiam: Hi
[2008/09/29 7:12] Payne Samiam: More arriving
[2008/09/29 7:12] ***PW***: i cant see you yet :(
[2008/09/29 7:12] Payne Samiam: We all or most of us are interested in what some would call kinks, fetishes and or exploration.
[2008/09/29 7:13] Payne Samiam: I doubt whether any of us have exactly the same kinks or needs
[2008/09/29 7:13] Payne Samiam: desires wants
[2008/09/29 7:13] Payne Samiam: its what makes all of this so much fun.
[2008/09/29 7:14] Payne Samiam: Today was going to be about dolly's hypnosis and pets but i'll expand that abit, i'm taking up a position as of thursday regular time 7am so this will be more an introduction.
[2008/09/29 7:15] Payne Samiam: This is rose, my girl and she will be helping me alot, after all as I see it a Master without a submissive isn't really a Master I mean who are you Mastering at that point
[2008/09/29 7:15] Payne Samiam: Same goes for the thought am I a good Master, well if I had an ego I would say yes but in truth I say ask my girl.
[2008/09/29 7:15] ***LW*** smiles and waves
[2008/09/29 7:17] Payne Samiam: I am not in this for a power trip or to have someone to talk down to, i'm in this to look after an amazing girl who has given me the most priceless gift anyone can ever be given another human being.
[2008/09/29 7:17] Payne Samiam: there trust, there love, there devotion.
[2008/09/29 7:18] Payne Samiam: Now I won't go into the basics of submission and Domination that is for another time.
[2008/09/29 7:18] Pirate Russell: Like tomorrow at 7a... hint hint, and Friday at 1p
[2008/09/29 7:18] Pirate Russell: He he
[2008/09/29 7:18] Payne Samiam: Lets look at Dolly's to some it looks wierd, strange, laughable..
[2008/09/29 7:18] Payne Samiam grins at Pirate
[2008/09/29 7:19] Payne Samiam: But its very much like at the core every other part of D/s and BDSM
[2008/09/29 7:19] Payne Samiam: control
[2008/09/29 7:20] Payne Samiam: A dolly by definition wants to become a toy, a treasured object
[2008/09/29 7:20] ***MS***: sheath whip
[2008/09/29 7:20] Payne Samiam: dressed up, controlled
[2008/09/29 7:20] Payne Samiam: posed
[2008/09/29 7:20] Payne Samiam: letting go of self
[2008/09/29 7:20] Payne Samiam: I myself am a dolly trainer but
[2008/09/29 7:21] Payne Samiam: until I met rose it wasn't really for me.
[2008/09/29 7:21] Payne Samiam: I know doll's that spend all day in sl in a plastic case
[2008/09/29 7:21] Payne Samiam: dressed in rubber.
[2008/09/29 7:21] Payne Samiam: completely vacant
[2008/09/29 7:21] ***GG***: oh my
[2008/09/29 7:21] Payne Samiam: Barbie girls
[2008/09/29 7:21] ***GH***: makes for a boring day,,wow
[2008/09/29 7:22] Payne Samiam: I understand to them it gives a perfect kind of peace
[2008/09/29 7:22] Payne Samiam: but yes your right
[2008/09/29 7:22] Payne Samiam: I prefer my girl to be interactive :)
[2008/09/29 7:22] ***PW***: i agree
[2008/09/29 7:22] ***GG***: what does the master get out of a sub being a dolly compared to not being one
[2008/09/29 7:22] Payne Samiam: Very good question
[2008/09/29 7:23] Payne Samiam: Well that doll is there for Masters use any time day or night
[2008/09/29 7:23] Payne Samiam: sex doll
[2008/09/29 7:23] Payne Samiam: ornament
[2008/09/29 7:23] ***PW***: possesion
[2008/09/29 7:23] Payne Samiam: thats the norm
[2008/09/29 7:23] Payne Samiam: yes
[2008/09/29 7:23] ***GH***: yea im not sure i get it exactly,the whole dolly part,never herd of that term
[2008/09/29 7:23] Payne Samiam: good word
[2008/09/29 7:23] ***MS***: how does that differ from slave?
[2008/09/29 7:23] ***PW***: part of the control for the master
[2008/09/29 7:23] Payne Samiam: Yes
[2008/09/29 7:23] ***GG***: where would one go to learn how to be one? I was told I probably would like it
[2008/09/29 7:24] Payne Samiam: There is a place called dolly island I believe and others
[2008/09/29 7:24] ***GG***: cool
[2008/09/29 7:24] Payne Samiam: if you message me aftwards i'll send you a landmark
[2008/09/29 7:24] ***GG***: ty
[2008/09/29 7:24] Payne Samiam: Rose is a different kind of dolly
[2008/09/29 7:25] Payne Samiam: she is what I call a fluid submissive.
[2008/09/29 7:25] ***GG***: ?
[2008/09/29 7:26] ***GG***: (wonders how many different dolly's there are)
[2008/09/29 7:26] ***PW***: i think he means that she will go along with things and not question - it also pleases her
[2008/09/29 7:26] ***PW***: intuitive
[2008/09/29 7:26] ***GG***: but that is a regular slave
[2008/09/29 7:27] Payne Samiam: Sorry all Sl decided to boot me
[2008/09/29 7:27] ***PW***: lol - pain
[2008/09/29 7:27] ***GH***: wb
[2008/09/29 7:27] Payne Samiam: *pokes sl*
[2008/09/29 7:27] Payne Samiam: Thank you
[2008/09/29 7:28] Payne Samiam: I personally myself prefer a girl who can be my friend, companion, lover, who I can talk with as my confident who I can explore anything with.
[2008/09/29 7:28] Pirate Russell looks at Her 2 girls, "Got that!"
[2008/09/29 7:28] ***GG***: so Sir Payne how many different kinds of dolly's are there
[2008/09/29 7:28] Payne Samiam: Most Dolly I know become so refined into plastic personalities into completely being a dolly they can't do anything else.
[2008/09/29 7:29] Payne Samiam: There is Latex dolly's who embrace the complete covering of there bodies in latex
[2008/09/29 7:29] ***GG***: so by fluid dolly you meant LadyRose does other things?
[2008/09/29 7:29] Payne Samiam: Yes
[2008/09/29 7:30] Payne Samiam: She never looses herself
[2008/09/29 7:30] Payne Samiam: its very easy to loose yourself in becoming a doll.
[2008/09/29 7:30] Payne Samiam: very like becoming a slave
[2008/09/29 7:31] Payne Samiam: If you don't have a Good Master or Mistress you can end up lost
[2008/09/29 7:31] ***PW***: so do you use doll and pet descriptively together
[2008/09/29 7:32] ***PW***: since my pet - i would not describe as my doll
[2008/09/29 7:32] Payne Samiam: I don't use the term pet much these days i'm more likely to call rose my yumilicious woman of nummy naughtiness
[2008/09/29 7:32] ***PW***: i know what you mean
[2008/09/29 7:32] Payne Samiam: Its really all about personal preferences
[2008/09/29 7:32] ***PW***: :)
[2008/09/29 7:32] Payne Samiam: what works for you.
[2008/09/29 7:33] ***PW***: i agree
[2008/09/29 7:33] Payne Samiam: See doll is like a sub heading like submissive, slave, dolly but they are interchangable depending on you and who you are with.
[2008/09/29 7:33] ***GG***: so this may be an obvious question does the MAster or Mistress get turned on by what they have dolly wear?
[2008/09/29 7:33] Payne Samiam: Oh yes alot of the time, not always but it can be very kinky :)
[2008/09/29 7:34] Pirate Russell: Dolly's can also be recogin***ZF*** sometimes by having a key in their back, to be wound up
[2008/09/29 7:34] Payne Samiam: I have seen girls in london at the scene completely dressed in latex complete dolification, they do look quite erotic
[2008/09/29 7:34] ***GG***: was wondering what the keys do
[2008/09/29 7:34] Payne Samiam: That is another type of Dolly a clockwork type, rose my dolly is nuclear powered :)
[2008/09/29 7:35] ***PW***: like a clockwork toy
[2008/09/29 7:35] ***GG***: WOW was wondering if they do this in RL
[2008/09/29 7:35] Payne Samiam: Latex and pvc (vinyl) are used alot in the clothing of a doll because it simulates the skin of a doll
[2008/09/29 7:36] ***GG***: ah I see
[2008/09/29 7:36] ***ZF*** loves seeing latex dolls.
[2008/09/29 7:36] Payne Samiam: In SL and places like this you can take it to whatever your imagination wants too
[2008/09/29 7:36] ***PW***: i have not seen the keys but the pvc in rl
[2008/09/29 7:36] ***CF***: These may be the first people in line to purchase interactive realdolls.
[2008/09/29 7:36] Payne Samiam smiles
[2008/09/29 7:36] ***PW***: you could have a bot dressed as a clockwork Crystal
[2008/09/29 7:37] ***PW*** smiles
[2008/09/29 7:37] ***CF***: (nope, talkng about RL here)
[2008/09/29 7:37] Payne Samiam: hypnosis erotic hypnosis is used alot in letting the girl let go of herself to become a bot, you will see it used alot.
[2008/09/29 7:37] ***PW***: i know
[2008/09/29 7:37] Payne Samiam: The japanese are already working on sex dolls of that kind.
[2008/09/29 7:38] ***GG***: just discovering trance now with some hypnodoms
[2008/09/29 7:38] Payne Samiam: Trance can be a wonderful thing
[2008/09/29 7:38] ***MS***: coppelia comes to reality
[2008/09/29 7:39] Payne Samiam: Rose is a wonderful subject we are currently exploring alot of that kind of thing
[2008/09/29 7:39] Payne Samiam: but i'll do many classes on hypnosis and how to use it safely
[2008/09/29 7:39] Payne Samiam: If people want that.
[2008/09/29 7:39] Payne Samiam: It will all depend on feedback I get.
[2008/09/29 7:39] ***GG***: but what is the difference if someone was going to do something anyway...
[2008/09/29 7:39] ***GG***: that would be great
[2008/09/29 7:40] Payne Samiam: Hypnosis can take you places that are really special.
[2008/09/29 7:40] Payne Samiam: lets bookmark that for thursday's meeting
[2008/09/29 7:41] Payne Samiam: You don't see many male doll's either here or in real life scene, there is some but its like 100/1 ratio
[2008/09/29 7:42] ***ZF***: I've seen a few male dolls a while ago, not too many indeed.
[2008/09/29 7:42] ***GG***: I went to a special place and didn't want to come back...does that happen alot?
[2008/09/29 7:42] ***GG***: haha
[2008/09/29 7:42] Pirate Russell: What Isee in SL, as I"m only a Cyber Domme, is that there are far fewer male subs of any type
[2008/09/29 7:42] Payne Samiam: Now using hypnosis in a dolly context you can associate the person sitting at the computer with the avatar in sl, in such a powerful way that as she dresses in latex in sl she actually feels it covering her body in rl the smell the touch it can be 100% real to her
[2008/09/29 7:43] Payne Samiam: which as you can imagine can be a huge turn on and help in helping a girl to become a dolly.
[2008/09/29 7:43] ***GG***: ohhhhhhhhhhhhh nice
[2008/09/29 7:43] Pirate Russell: So, hypno. is a non-electronic version of Virtual Reality, then
[2008/09/29 7:43] Payne Samiam: Yes actually
[2008/09/29 7:44] ***ZF***: Nice.
[2008/09/29 7:44] Payne Samiam: hypnosis actually means this an I can put it quite simply
[2008/09/29 7:44] Payne Samiam: a change of awareness
[2008/09/29 7:44] ***GG***: ah ok
[2008/09/29 7:44] Payne Samiam: if any of you like reading books or watching a film and feel yourself excited or caring for a character, having emotions
[2008/09/29 7:44] Payne Samiam: you have self hypnotised yourself
[2008/09/29 7:44] Pirate Russell hates fininshing most books, for just that reason
[2008/09/29 7:45] Payne Samiam: changed your awareness to a place where that fiction means something and affects you in a very real way.
[2008/09/29 7:45] ***PW***: like sl itself
[2008/09/29 7:45] ***PW***: overall i mean
[2008/09/29 7:45] ***LW*** is back and reading :)
[2008/09/29 7:46] Payne Samiam: One girl wanted to be a neko, so I gave her a phrase she could say herself which when she said it she swore she could feel her tail and ears and got certain neko urgers :)
[2008/09/29 7:46] Payne Samiam: Welcome back love
[2008/09/29 7:46] Payne Samiam: It took weeks but for her it was what she wanted
[2008/09/29 7:46] ***LW***: grins
[2008/09/29 7:46] Pirate Russell: How much of the online response to hypnosis, is telling you what you want to hear?
[2008/09/29 7:47] Payne Samiam: It takes alot of trust and personal time for it to work
[2008/09/29 7:47] ***GG***: and I am sure it is easier to do it by voice than by texting
[2008/09/29 7:47] ***LW***: I'm sure alot of people use it to roleplay, but you have to be a very very very good roleplayer to keep it up over a long period of time....it becomes obvious soon if the person is faking.
[2008/09/29 7:47] ***GG***: I would think so
[2008/09/29 7:47] Payne Samiam: you will always get especially with submissives and there need to please to tell you what you want to hear but thats what you cover on day one
[2008/09/29 7:48] Payne Samiam: that you need honest feedback
[2008/09/29 7:48] ***LW***: and if two people both just want to roleplay, there is no harm in that :)
[2008/09/29 7:48] Pirate Russell: And tomorrow and Friday, too! LOL
[2008/09/29 7:48] Payne Samiam: hypnosis is very personal it can take weeks or months to find what works for you
[2008/09/29 7:48] ***AP*** asks - can you change your awareness by watching the same DVD, listening to the same MP3 file, which use certain key words as triggers... or is that not the same thing?
[2008/09/29 7:49] ***LW*** nods and thinks it is the same thing
[2008/09/29 7:49] Payne Samiam: That can work but it will never work as well as a real person adapting to you and talking you through
[2008/09/29 7:49] ***LW***: true
[2008/09/29 7:49] ***LW***: :)
[2008/09/29 7:49] ***AP***: *specifically chosen DVD's or moving website pics and words
[2008/09/29 7:49] ***GG***: I would think so...I get into a different state of mind...when I hear the word GIRL or calling one Sir or MAster
[2008/09/29 7:49] ***AP***: Thank you :0
[2008/09/29 7:50] Payne Samiam: Text can be as powerful as voice especially for anyone who loves books anyone who can get lost in a book can be put in a trance by text
[2008/09/29 7:50] ***LW*** thinks subspace is a type of hypnosis
[2008/09/29 7:50] ***GG***: right
[2008/09/29 7:50] Payne Samiam: Yes it is rose
[2008/09/29 7:50] Payne Samiam: see it brings up another idea
[2008/09/29 7:50] Payne Samiam: lots of people reach subspace by different means
[2008/09/29 7:50] Payne Samiam: some its bondage
[2008/09/29 7:50] Payne Samiam: some its pain
[2008/09/29 7:50] Payne Samiam: others its extreme emotions
[2008/09/29 7:51] Payne Samiam: some its being cuddled by Master
[2008/09/29 7:51] Payne Samiam: its all very unique and personal
[2008/09/29 7:52] Payne Samiam: I can't describe to you how a proper trance feels but once you have it, you want more, its very like subspace, peaceful and wonderful but beyond words
[2008/09/29 7:52] Payne Samiam hugs rose
[2008/09/29 7:52] Payne Samiam: Being a dolly to some just the act of that loss of control slips them into subspace
[2008/09/29 7:52] ***LW*** smiles
[2008/09/29 7:53] ***GG***: that sounds like a little place I went to and I didnt want to come back
[2008/09/29 7:53] Payne Samiam: As with everything in D/s its a very personal journey and unique to everyone.
[2008/09/29 7:53] Payne Samiam: We is all individuals :)
[2008/09/29 7:54] Payne Samiam: Does anyone have any questions and would you like if thursdays meeting specifically delt with hypnosis and how to safely try it?
[2008/09/29 7:55] ***GG***: sure
[2008/09/29 7:55] ***GH***: nope no questions from me
[2008/09/29 7:55] ***PW***: me niether
[2008/09/29 7:56] ***AP*** says "yes, I'd like to hear more on the subject of hypnosis"
[2008/09/29 7:56] Payne Samiam: As with everything what I tell you is how I find it, how I experience it, so I don't expect everything to be good for you all
[2008/09/29 7:56] Pirate Russell: *****you will all come back thursday...... you will bring friends...... *****
[2008/09/29 7:56] ***GH***: hahaha
[2008/09/29 7:57] Payne Samiam: What I say to my own girl is, when we train, when we explore these things its " does it feel right" trust that feeling inside you.
[2008/09/29 7:57] Payne Samiam: hehe
[2008/09/29 7:57] ***AP***: *smiles*
[2008/09/29 7:57] ***PW***: i will ...and i will bring my friends
[2008/09/29 7:57] Payne Samiam: Thank you for having me :)
[2008/09/29 7:57] ***PW***: thank you
[2008/09/29 7:57] ***GG***: is there ever a time when a trance does something negative?
[2008/09/29 7:57] Payne Samiam: ohh what a choice of words that could be taken so many ways
[2008/09/29 7:57] Pirate Russell: HEY..... I haven't had you, Payne!
[2008/09/29 7:57] ***GH***: very interesting class,thank you
[2008/09/29 7:58] Payne Samiam smiles happily
[2008/09/29 7:58] ***GG***: woohooo
[2008/09/29 7:58] Pirate Russell: Thanks, Payne, and Welcome to the College of Kink Family!
[2008/09/29 7:58] ***AP***: Thank you, for coming, Sir Payne! It was most enjoyable
[2008/09/29 7:58] Payne Samiam: Trance can not be used on its own to do harm your minds own defences will come into play.
[2008/09/29 7:58] Payne Samiam: but like anything there are idiots out there
[2008/09/29 7:58] ***GG***: thats good to know
[2008/09/29 7:59] Payne Samiam: Yay Thankyou Pirate for having me :)
[2008/09/29 7:59] Payne Samiam: Never let anyone trance you on first date :)
[2008/09/29 7:59] Payne Samiam: its like everything, find someone who wants to get to know you
[2008/09/29 7:59] ***GG***: right I had someone try to rush me..
[2008/09/29 7:59] Payne Samiam: a good erotic hypnotist will learn as much as you do its a path
[2008/09/29 8:00] Payne Samiam: if it doesn't feel right then its not right
[2008/09/29 8:00] Payne Samiam: If anyone wants to gang rape my friends list feel free to *grins*
[2008/09/29 8:00] ***GG***: haha
[2008/09/29 8:00] ***GH***: eewwie
[2008/09/29 8:00] ***AP***: With pleasure! :) LOL
[2008/09/29 8:00] ***PW*** smiles
[2008/09/29 8:01] Pirate Russell: What's the trigger, Payne?
[2008/09/29 8:01] ***PW***: lol
[2008/09/29 8:01] Payne Samiam: lol
[2008/09/29 8:01] Payne Samiam: What trigger :)
[2008/09/29 8:01] Ibrew Meads giggles
[2008/09/29 8:01] Pirate Russell: Post hypnotic suggesitons for the gang rape!
[2008/09/29 8:01] ***AP***: *giggles*
[2008/09/29 8:01] Payne Samiam grins
[2008/09/29 8:02] ***PW*** likes Pirate's thinking
[2008/09/29 8:02] Pirate Russell makes a point of staying at least 1/4 step ahead of My Instructors! LOL
[2008/09/29 8:02] ***PW***: lol - i bet
[2008/09/29 8:02] Payne Samiam: There is alot of bullshit and falsehoods in hypnosis especially erotic hypnosis but please feel free to ask me if anything concerns you
[2008/09/29 8:03] Payne Samiam: Thats why its fun to work with you Pirate :)
[2008/09/29 8:03] Payne Samiam: very like D/s there is alot of B/s out there
[2008/09/29 8:03] ***LW*** tickles her Master's leg
[2008/09/29 8:03] Payne Samiam snuggles his girl
[2008/09/29 8:03] ***LW***: With Master's permission, I can friend others too, let me know :)
[2008/09/29 8:04] Payne Samiam: Yes love
[2008/09/29 8:04] Pirate Russell: Well, Payne, RL beckons.... Ciao for now, y'all!
[2008/09/29 8:04] ***LW*** tickles her Master's leg again
[2008/09/29 8:04] ***GG***: bye Pirate
[2008/09/29 8:04] ***LW***: yay
[2008/09/29 8:04] Payne Samiam: You need to go work love *kisses*
[2008/09/29 8:04] Pirate Russell: Thanks again Payne, see y'all here tomorrow, same time, for Intro to submission
[2008/09/29 8:04] Payne Samiam: Bye Pirate :)
[2008/09/29 8:04] ***MS***: tc pirate :)
[2008/09/29 8:04] ***PW***: bye Pi

Bondage - 9/26/08

[2008/09/26 13:07] ***IM***: The fashionably late crowd shoud be here any minute.
[2008/09/26 13:08] Pirate Russell: If nobody shows in a bout 3 min, we're gonna have class at My place! LESS lag!
[2008/09/26 13:08] ***BH***: wading their way from the landing zone, Miss *giggles*
[2008/09/26 13:08] ***KC***: wooohoooo
[2008/09/26 13:09] ***BH*** accepted your inventory offer.
[2008/09/26 13:10] ***LE***: Pirate, are You the instructor for this class ?
[2008/09/26 13:10] Pirate Russell: Yes, I am
[2008/09/26 13:10] ***LE***: Cool
[2008/09/26 13:11] Pirate Russell: I'm the head Mistress for The College of Kink.
[2008/09/26 13:11] ***LE***: Impressivre
[2008/09/26 13:11] ***LE***: SO You have a training program for subs ?
[2008/09/26 13:12] Pirate Russell: Sort of, yes, I do tutoring, 5k for 4hrs, I'm finishing up one right now, with a Domme that's new to SL BDSM
[2008/09/26 13:12] ***LE***: So You teach the dominant and submissive side then ?
[2008/09/26 13:13] Pirate Russell: I do
[2008/09/26 13:13] ***LE***: Interesting. Perhaps we'll look You up sometime.
[2008/09/26 13:13] Pirate Russell: I'm looking for a subby instructor to teach from the subby side.
[2008/09/26 13:13] Pirate Russell: I have to Doms that teach Mon at 7 and Wed at 7
[2008/09/26 13:14] Pirate Russell: I teach Tues at 7 and this class, but it's the same material
[2008/09/26 13:14] ***BH*** gave you 4 The Wedding Party.
[2008/09/26 13:14] ***BH*** looks up and smiles
[2008/09/26 13:14] ***LE***: THis class always 1pm on Fridays?
[2008/09/26 13:14] Pirate Russell: Yes
[2008/09/26 13:14] ***LE***: Great
[2008/09/26 13:15] Pirate Russell: Was Tues/Thur but My son has sports on Wed pm, and it's 4p for Me, so I can't be here thursdays
[2008/09/26 13:15] Pirate Russell: Let's all go to My place, I'll send TP's in a sec

[2008/09/26 13:19] Pirate Russell: Welcome to Pirate's Cove, ***LE***!
[2008/09/26 13:19] ***LE***: THanks so much Pirate
[2008/09/26 13:20] Pirate Russell: Please, ***LE***, have a seat
[2008/09/26 13:20] ***LE***: I;ll stand for now, thanks)
[2008/09/26 13:21] Pirate Russell: ANd here's My ***RJ***, too! he he
[2008/09/26 13:22] ***IM***: Hi Sis!
[2008/09/26 13:22] ***RJ***: hello All ;)
[2008/09/26 13:22] ***KC***: hello ***RJ***
[2008/09/26 13:22] ***BH***: hiya sis
[2008/09/26 13:22] Pirate Russell: well, let's get this show on the road... he he, only half hr late
[2008/09/26 13:22] ***LE***: Greetings
[2008/09/26 13:22] Pirate Russell: Ok, please take all cross talk to IM, and all collar, etc commands to the secondary channels!
[2008/09/26 13:22] Pirate Russell: Welcome to House of V's College of Kink!
[2008/09/26 13:22] Pirate Russell: My name is Pirate Russell, Head Mistress of the College, and today's instructor.
[2008/09/26 13:22] Pirate Russell: I have been in SL for nearly 3 years, a lesbian Domme, the entire time.
[2008/09/26 13:23] Pirate Russell: THIS IS GREAT with no lag.. he he
[2008/09/26 13:23] Pirate Russell: Our topic today: Bondage
[2008/09/26 13:23] ***LE*** nods agreement
[2008/09/26 13:23] Pirate Russell: I would like to preface this with My usual, EVERY releationship is as different as those that are in it.
[2008/09/26 13:23] Pirate Russell: If you look up "bondage" in the dictionary, you might find definitions like "slavery" or "servitude" and indeed that's what the word means to some people.
[2008/09/26 13:23] Pirate Russell has to restist the temptation to FLY thru it
[2008/09/26 13:23] MystiTool HUD 1.0.23: Detached.
[2008/09/26 13:23] Pirate Russell: To others, it means simply being restrained in some ways, "giving up some amount of control".
[2008/09/26 13:23] Pirate Russell: Types of Bondage submissives
[2008/09/26 13:24] Pirate Russell: People are into bondage for different reasons, what are they?
[2008/09/26 13:24] Pirate Russell: Why does a particular submissive want to get tied up?
[2008/09/26 13:24] Pirate Russell: It's a very fundamental and important question but one that's rarely asked and often difficult for the submissive to answer.
[2008/09/26 13:24] Pirate Russell: ~submissive/slave
[2008/09/26 13:24] Pirate Russell: This person is mainly interested in submitting to the Dominant. The act of submission is their main turn-on and the Dom is their main focus.
[2008/09/26 13:24] Pirate Russell sees two of those in here... he he
[2008/09/26 13:24] Pirate Russell: They enjoy being "used" for someone else's pleasure (although most also expect to also receive pleasure themselves).
[2008/09/26 13:24] Pirate Russell: For a serious submissive, physical bondage isn't all that important for most scenes, as the "bondage" can just as easily be psychological (i.e. the Dominant orders them not to move from a given position).
[2008/09/26 13:25] Pirate Russell: ~Loss of Control Lover
[2008/09/26 13:25] Pirate Russell looks over Her shoulder, "I know one of these, too...."
[2008/09/26 13:25] Pirate Russell: This person is very different from the submissive/slave.
[2008/09/26 13:25] Pirate Russell: They don't so much submit to the Dominant, as submit to the bondage.
[2008/09/26 13:25] Pirate Russell: They want to feel as out-of-control as possible. They view bondage as the primary means for the Dominant to make them feel as helpless as possible, rather than as an end in itself.
[2008/09/26 13:25] Pirate Russell: They often love severe bondage like sensory deprivation and mummification. They might judge a hood or gag by its effectiveness not what it looks like or what it's made out of.
[2008/09/26 13:26] Pirate Russell: They like the bondage inescapable and may play without a safeword to end the scene.
[2008/09/26 13:26] Pirate Russell: ~Endorphin junkie.
[2008/09/26 13:26] Pirate Russell: This person is subtly different from the others. They crave a very specific kind of intensity most of us call pain.
[2008/09/26 13:26] Pirate Russell: They're unique enough to deserve their own category. For them, bondage opens the door for various pain scenes.
[2008/09/26 13:26] Pirate Russell: For example, bondage may be required to hold an Endorphin junkie in place for a heavy whipping which in turn creates the endorphin rush they desire.
[2008/09/26 13:26] Pirate Russell: The endorphins are what drive them while the bondage is often necessary to get there.
[2008/09/26 13:26] Pirate Russell: Bondage can be divided into six main categories:
[2008/09/26 13:27] Pirate Russell: * Bondage that pulls parts of the body together (rope, straps, harnesses, handcuffs, shackles, etc).
[2008/09/26 13:27] Pirate Russell: * Bondage that spreads parts of the body apart (spreader bars, x-frames, four post beds, etc).
[2008/09/26 13:27] Pirate Russell: * Bondage that ties the body down to another object (such as chairs or stocks, posts, etc).
[2008/09/26 13:27] Pirate Russell: * Bondage that suspends the body from another object (suspension bondage).
[2008/09/26 13:27] Pirate Russell: * Bondage that restricts normal movement (hobble skirts, handcuffs, pony harness, etc).
[2008/09/26 13:27] Pirate Russell: * Bondage that wraps the whole body or a part of it in bindings such as cloth or plastic (saran wrap or cling film "mummification") as well as sleepsack bondage.
[2008/09/26 13:27] Pirate Russell: Some of the large variety of restraints used in bondage:
[2008/09/26 13:28] Pirate Russell: * Rope, often preferred because of its flexibility. Rigging, however, requires considerable skill and practice to do safely.
[2008/09/26 13:28] Pirate Russell: * Chains, including police handcuffs, thumbcuffs and belly chains.
[2008/09/26 13:28] Pirate Russell: * Institutional restraints, including straitjackets.
[2008/09/26 13:28] Pirate Russell: * Purpose-made bondage gear, such as monogloves, sleepsacks, bondage hooks and bondage tables.
[2008/09/26 13:28] Pirate Russell: Some simple bondage techniques:
[2008/09/26 13:28] Pirate Russell: * Verbal bondage, in which (as the name suggests) the top simply tells the bottom to do something.
[2008/09/26 13:28] Pirate Russell: * Simply tying the hands together in front or behind.
[2008/09/26 13:29] Pirate Russell: * Anchoring the hands to the front, back or sides of a belt at the waist.
[2008/09/26 13:29] Pirate Russell: * A spread eagle, with the limbs splayed out and fastened by wrists and ankles to bedposts, door frame or some other anchoring point.
[2008/09/26 13:29] Pirate Russell: * A hogtie securing each wrist to its corresponding ankle behind the back (wider, padded restraints such as bondage cuffs are recommended for this).
[2008/09/26 13:29] Pirate Russell: * The Balltie securing wrists to ankles, in front, with the knees drawn up to the chest
[2008/09/26 13:29] Pirate Russell: * The crotch rope involves pulling a rope between the labia to apply pressure to the female genitals. Sometimes a knot is placed in the rope at the position of the clitoris to intensify the sensation.
[2008/09/26 13:29] Pirate Russell: Some more complex techniques:
[2008/09/26 13:29] Pirate Russell: * The reverse prayer position (not recommended unless the subject has flexible shoulders).
[2008/09/26 13:30] Pirate Russell: * An over-arm tie, in which the arms are brought over the head, and the wrists fastened together behind the head and then by a length of rope, chain or strapping to a belt at the waist.
[2008/09/26 13:30] Pirate Russell: There are also some common fantasy settings in which bondage is often played:
[2008/09/26 13:30] Pirate Russell: * Rape, ravishment and/or abduction: The top fictitiously seizes or abducts the consenting bottom and has complete control to do what he/she pleases.
[2008/09/26 13:30] Pirate Russell wonders WHO in this room might like that.. he he
[2008/09/26 13:30] Pirate Russell: ... then looks up at the ceiling
[2008/09/26 13:30] Pirate Russell: * Dominance/slavery: A training session occurs in which rewards for obedience and punishment for defiance are given. Humiliation is usually involved.
[2008/09/26 13:30] ***BH*** giggles
[2008/09/26 13:31] Pirate Russell: * Predicament bondage: The bottom is given a choice between two tortures. For example, caning on the rear or flogging on the chest. If the bottom cannot stand one any longer, the top will start the other.
[2008/09/26 13:31] Pirate Russell: * This can also be done mechanically, like having a bottom squat and rigging a crotch rope to tighten if they attempt to stand.
[2008/09/26 13:31] Pirate Russell: Self Bondage
[2008/09/26 13:31] Pirate Russell: Technique in self-bondage is more complex, involving special methods to apply the bondage to oneself, and also to effect a release after a lapsed period of time.
[2008/09/26 13:31] Pirate Russell: Self-bondage carries a higher risk, particularly because it violates the first principle of bondage safety: to never leave a bound person alone.
[2008/09/26 13:31] Pirate Russell: Without someone to release them in the event of an emergency or medical crisis, self-bondage can be lethal to its practitioners.
[2008/09/26 13:32] Pirate Russell: It has been estimated in the medical literature there are around 500-1000 deaths every year in the United States due to autoerotic asphyxia (self-strangulation) alone.
[2008/09/26 13:32] Pirate Russell: Safety
[2008/09/26 13:32] Pirate Russell: Many people regard bondage as safe when conducted between sober, trusted partners who are fully aware of the risks involved and the precautions necessary to ensure safety.
[2008/09/26 13:32] Pirate Russell: Partners who are in committed relationships may have a greater basis for trusting each other. Performing acts in a supervised location, such as a dungeon, or with a group of trusted friends may also increase safety.
[2008/09/26 13:32] Pirate Russell: There is also a subculture of people who seek out others interested in bondage and pursue such activities with people who they do not know well.
[2008/09/26 13:32] Pirate Russell: This subculture has given rise to the safe, sane and consensual credo, also known as "SSC".
[2008/09/26 13:32] Pirate Russell: Safety precautions include:
[2008/09/26 13:32] Pirate Russell: * The use of a "safeword," or some clear way for the subject to indicate genuine distress and a wish to abort.
[2008/09/26 13:33] Pirate Russell: * Never leaving a bound person alone.
[2008/09/26 13:33] Pirate Russell: * Avoiding positions or restraints which may induce postural asphyxia (suffocation).
[2008/09/26 13:33] Pirate Russell: * Making sure that the subject changes positions at least once an hour (to avoid circulation problems).
[2008/09/26 13:33] Pirate Russell: * Making sure that the subject can be released quickly in an emergency.
[2008/09/26 13:33] Pirate Russell: * Avoiding restraints which impair breathing. (Gags or hoods which block the mouth can become asphyxial hazards if the subject vomits or the nose becomes otherwise blocked.)
[2008/09/26 13:33] Pirate Russell: * Remaining sober; alcohol and drugs should be avoided.
[2008/09/26 13:33] Pirate Russell: One very simple safety measure is to ask the subject every so often if he or she is all right.
[2008/09/26 13:34] Pirate Russell: Another is to check body parts like hands and feet for numbness or coldness, which can happen if nerves have been pinched or blood circulation has been blocked.
[2008/09/26 13:34] Pirate Russell: Another is to check for skin discoloration. Skin that does not get enough oxygen turns bluish. If blood can get in, but can't get out because one of the veins has been blocked, that part of the body turns purple.
[2008/09/26 13:34] Pirate Russell: If the subject has been gagged or can otherwise not verbally communicate, a different form of the safeword is needed. For instance, they may hum a simple tune, or opening and closing one or both hands repeatedly, or releasing an object held in one hand(su
[2008/09/26 13:34] Pirate Russell: Some simple preparations may also be helpful:
[2008/09/26 13:34] Pirate Russell: * Food. It is surprisingly common for people (especially those on diets) to faint during a long session. Having a regular meal beforehand is recommended; being fed small snacks during play may also help avoid fainting.
[2008/09/26 13:34] Pirate Russell: * Cutting tools. A pair of EMT scissors is recommended (useful for safely cutting rope and tape off skin).
[2008/09/26 13:35] Pirate Russell: * Keyed-alike padlocks, if chains are being used.
[2008/09/26 13:35] Pirate Russell: It should be noted that scenes depicted in bondage photographs and videos are chosen for their visual appeal and fantasy value. In most cases they cannot be "acted out" with good results.
[2008/09/26 13:35] Pirate Russell:
[2008/09/26 13:35] Pirate Russell: The reason for bondage
[2008/09/26 13:35] Pirate Russell: People who find it erotic to be tied up find it so for a variety of reasons:
[2008/09/26 13:36] Pirate Russell: * The most frequently cited reason is a mental freedom from inhibitions and responsibility since they have, in a way, given up control of the sexual situation to follow. This is sometimes referred to as a "power exchange."
[2008/09/26 13:36] Pirate Russell: * Some like the tactile feeling of restraint, that is, the feeling of pressure or pulling.
[2008/09/26 13:36] Pirate Russell: * Some enjoy the feeling of helplessness for its own sake. Some like to struggle aggressively against their bonds, particularly when being sexually or otherwise stimulated.
[2008/09/26 13:36] Pirate Russell: There are some in this category who play bondage games that do not include a significant sexual component.
[2008/09/26 13:36] Pirate Russell: * Wishing to please their partner, and the stimulation engendered by their partner's pleasure in it
[2008/09/26 13:36] Pirate Russell: * To intensify the experience of orgasm control or of orgasm denial.
[2008/09/26 13:36] Pirate Russell: * Some derive pleasure from symbolic degradation (less common). This can include those who enjoy role playing prison or mental hospital situations.
[2008/09/26 13:37] Pirate Russell: * Fetishistic interest in the mechanics of bondage, with particular interest in the equipment and restraints used.
[2008/09/26 13:37] Pirate Russell: Some of these people are interested in the look, feel, and aroma of leather and rubber restraints. Others are fascinated by the relationship between the geometry of the tie, the degrees of freedom remaining and the feelings elicited.
[2008/09/26 13:37] Pirate Russell: * As an addition to other BDSM activities
[2008/09/26 13:37] Pirate Russell: * Like hang gliding or mountaineering, some feel that bondage allows them to do something potentially dangerous in a safe way.
[2008/09/26 13:37] Pirate Russell: * Extreme forms of bondage such as mummification some people enjoy because it is like being placed in a sensory deprivation tank and may allow the person being placed in extreme bondage to experience an out-of-body experience.
[2008/09/26 13:37] Pirate Russell: * In the wide range of human sexual experience, there are certainly more reasons as well.
[2008/09/26 13:37] Pirate Russell: * People enjoy the feeling of being dominated over, being abused or being taken care of.
[2008/09/26 13:38] Pirate Russell: People who enjoy tying other people up are motivated by a variety of reasons, including:
[2008/09/26 13:38] Pirate Russell: * Taking pleasure in the erotic submission of their partner
[2008/09/26 13:38] Pirate Russell: * The feeling of trust which comes from another person placing their physical freedom in their hands
[2008/09/26 13:38] Pirate Russell: * Wishing to please their partner, and the stimulation engendered by their partner's pleasure in it
[2008/09/26 13:38] Pirate Russell: * Fetishistic interest in the elegance of bondage, with particular interest in the geometric patterns and symmetry (or artistic asymmetry) of the restraint
[2008/09/26 13:39] Pirate Russell: * Using bondage as an adjunct to other BDSM activities
[2008/09/26 13:39] Pirate Russell: * Enjoyment of the power and control one has over a restrained partner.
[2008/09/26 13:39] Pirate Russell: Citation:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bondage_(BDSM)
[2008/09/26 13:39] Pirate Russell: Questions, comments?
[2008/09/26 13:39] ***LE***: Very informative and thorough
[2008/09/26 13:39] ***KC***: when beginning in bondage should one take baby steps
[2008/09/26 13:40] ***RJ***: very oriented to RL bondage, some of course doesn't apply here ;)
[2008/09/26 13:40] Pirate Russell: Most of My classes are, LOTS More info on RL vs. online bondage
[2008/09/26 13:41] Pirate Russell: And yes, kiri, Id not want to take someone on the first 'date' and do a 33 hr shibari tie on them, I'd want to explore some limits, etc
[2008/09/26 13:42] ***KC***: also since Mistress and girl are inexperienced should Mistress have someone around who is experienced to do a bondage scene
[2008/09/26 13:42] ***LE***: Safety calls ... important in RL at times but not here of course
[2008/09/26 13:42] Pirate Russell: In RL, yes, if you dont' mind the.... spectator aspect... I sure don't... he he
[2008/09/26 13:43] ***RJ***: indeed - and letting someone know who and where youre about to be tied up for ;)
[2008/09/26 13:43] ***LE***: Yes thats what I meant
[2008/09/26 13:43] Pirate Russell: That's good too, and safe word, soemthing that nobody mistakes...
[2008/09/26 13:43] ***RJ***: ahh - there's also calls during/after long scenes, i thought you might mean those
[2008/09/26 13:44] Pirate Russell: "no" or "Stop" aren't good ones, I prefer the trafficlight syster.
[2008/09/26 13:44] ***IM***: Like any first date, you wouldn't go somewhere with no one around and noone knowing where you are or when you are coming back.
[2008/09/26 13:44] Pirate Russell: Red Light = stop
[2008/09/26 13:44] Pirate Russell: Yellow Light = slow down, or stop for a second, etc
[2008/09/26 13:45] Pirate Russell: Oh.. ok, then ***IM***, I'll change O/our plans, then! LOL
[2008/09/26 13:45] ***IM*** giggles
[2008/09/26 13:45] Venessa Moonites: may I ask a question Master?
[2008/09/26 13:45] ***BH***: it's best to use a safeword that wouldn't be expected as part of the scene, like "elephant" or something
[2008/09/26 13:46] ***LE***: Yes, Venessa
[2008/09/26 13:46] ***IM*** thinks elephant might work it's way into some scenes.
[2008/09/26 13:46] Pirate Russell: Absolutely, bat, it MUST not be something that could be a part of the scene and missed
[2008/09/26 13:46] ***BH*** ain't getting tied up around ***IM***
[2008/09/26 13:46] Pirate Russell: Depends on girl's RL master! LOL
[2008/09/26 13:46] ***KC*** giggles at ***IM***
[2008/09/26 13:46] Venessa Moonites: Do you do classes on Master / slave psychological dominating?
[2008/09/26 13:46] ***KC*** laughs out loud at ***BH***
[2008/09/26 13:47] Pirate Russell: Actually, venessa, I am thinking of doing that one VERY soon. it's VERY germaine to Online BDSM
[2008/09/26 13:47] Venessa Moonites: thank you Miss
[2008/09/26 13:48] Venessa Moonites: for me it seems to be more that than physical
[2008/09/26 13:48] Venessa Moonites: in sl
[2008/09/26 13:48] ***LE*** smiles
[2008/09/26 13:48] ***RJ***: almost everything in SL is either mental or visual ;)
[2008/09/26 13:48] ***BH***: rarely physical in SL
[2008/09/26 13:48] Pirate Russell: True, though, I know some that tie themselves up for Me, in RL
[2008/09/26 13:48] ***BH***: tho it does happen :)
[2008/09/26 13:50] ***BH***: before any bondage play, there has to be trust above all.. gotta know the person with your key ain't gonna disappear to the pub
[2008/09/26 13:50] ***RJ***: or disappear for good!
[2008/09/26 13:51] ***BH*** nods
[2008/09/26 13:51] Pirate Russell: Oh, yes, one of My favorite Stephen King books deals with this, he ties her up and has a heart attack!
[2008/09/26 13:51] Pirate Russell: Gerald's Game
[2008/09/26 13:51] ***KC*** nods
[2008/09/26 13:51] ***BH*** plans out Hubby's health heart diet
[2008/09/26 13:52] Pirate Russell: Read that has girl??
[2008/09/26 13:52] ***KC***: yes Miss
[2008/09/26 13:54] Venessa Moonites: I love your place Mistress Pirate
[2008/09/26 13:54] Pirate Russell: Thank you, venessa, My ry, here, built it from SCRATCH!
[2008/09/26 13:54] ***LE***: It is beautiful
[2008/09/26 13:54] Venessa Moonites: wow!
[2008/09/26 13:54] ***KC***: wow good job ***RJ***. girl didn't know that
[2008/09/26 13:54] ***RJ***: smiles
[2008/09/26 13:54] ***RJ***: thanks all ;)
[2008/09/26 13:55] ***LE***: WHat size land is this on ?
[2008/09/26 13:55] ***RJ***: 60 x 72
[2008/09/26 13:55] Pirate Russell: Actually a double lot for this sim
[2008/09/26 13:55] ***RJ***: this specific castle uses 38 x 48, towers included
[2008/09/26 13:55] ***LE***: ***RJ***, since you seem very knowledgable, what are the dimensions of astandard 512 sqm plot ?
[2008/09/26 13:56] Pirate Russell: Square roog of 512?? LOL
[2008/09/26 13:56] ***RJ***: 16 by 32
[2008/09/26 13:56] Pirate Russell: er root
[2008/09/26 13:56] ***LE***: NO, I mena the "X" by "Y" dimension. ie 60 x 72
[2008/09/26 13:56] Pirate Russell: ***RJ*** knows her stuff, trust Me
[2008/09/26 13:56] ***RJ***: 16 x 32
[2008/09/26 13:56] ***LE***: OK thanks
[2008/09/26 13:56] ***RJ***: or 32 x 16, if it's turned the other way ;)
[2008/09/26 13:56] Venessa Moonites: It was gracious of you, to invite us to your home
[2008/09/26 13:58] Pirate Russell: My pleasure, I tried to get Vv to let us use HOV Gold club for this but she said no
[2008/09/26 13:58] ***LE***: This is a great place to have it.
[2008/09/26 13:58] ***LE***: Plenty of seat and couch space.
[2008/09/26 13:58] ***LE***: And carpet.
[2008/09/26 13:58] ***RJ***: blushes
[2008/09/26 13:59] Venessa Moonites: and the water
[2008/09/26 13:59] Pirate Russell: prolly gonna do some dungeon down here, somewhere! LOL
[2008/09/26 13:59] ***LE***: This huge "wall" window behind me is incredible with this view
[2008/09/26 14:00] ***LE***: May I see Your dungeon for some ideas ?
[2008/09/26 14:00] Pirate Russell: Dont' have it, up yet, it's behind the clear wall, so far, he he
[2008/09/26 14:00] ***RJ***: smiles
[2008/09/26 14:01] Dungeon Door: ***RJ*** is at the door.
[2008/09/26 14:01] ***RJ***: unlock
[2008/09/26 14:01] Dungeon Door: Door Unlocked
[2008/09/26 14:01] ***LE*** smiles "I was joking. I;m sure it will be ;interesting;
[2008/09/26 14:01] ***LE***: Thanks for the class, We will be going. Thanks for the hospitality
[2008/09/26 14:01] Pirate Russell: Sorry, phone, would y'all like to see the upstairs?
[2008/09/26 14:01] Venessa Moonites: thank you so much Mistress Pirate

***Tour Ensued***

[2008/09/26 14:15] ***LE***: Yes we are trying ot get RLV set up
[2008/09/26 14:15] ***RJ***: ahhh
[2008/09/26 14:15] ***RJ***: if you want a hand, i can probably help
[2008/09/26 14:15] ***IM***: You will love and hate it. Venessa ;-)
[2008/09/26 14:15] ***LE***: That's fun stuff. I may take You up on that offer. Thanks
[2008/09/26 14:15] Pirate Russell considers consluting fees for Her girls!
[2008/09/26 14:16] ***RJ***: oh, i just love it - then again, i'm Miss's helplessness junkie ;)
[2008/09/26 14:16] ***LE*** has already wondering if the same thing
[2008/09/26 14:16] ***LE***: OK well this time We're heading out for real.
[2008/09/26 14:16] ***LE***: Thanks again
[2008/09/26 14:17] Venessa Moonites: Thank you so kindly Miss
[2008/09/26 14:17] Venessa Moonites: nice to meet all of you : )
[2008/09/26 14:17] Pirate Russell: Okie dokie, Ciao for now!
[2008/09/26 14:17] Castle Radar: ***LE*** left your parcel, HoV Gold, on 2008-09-26 at 14:17 SLT
[2008/09/26 14:17] Castle Radar: Venessa Moonites left your parcel, HoV Gold, on 2008-09-26 at 14:17 SLT

Bondage - 9/23/08

[2008/09/23 7:15] Pirate Russell: Ok, please take all cross talk to IM, and all collar, etc commands to the secondary channels!
[2008/09/23 7:16] Pirate Russell: Welcome to House of V's College of Kink!
[2008/09/23 7:16] Pirate Russell: My name is Pirate Russell, Head Mistress of the College, and today's instructor.
[2008/09/23 7:16] Pirate Russell: I have been in SL for nearly 3 years, a lesbian Domme, the entire time.
[2008/09/23 7:16] Pirate Russell: Our topic today: Bondage
[2008/09/23 7:16] Pirate Russell: I would like to preface this with My usual, EVERY releationship is as different as those that are in it.
[2008/09/23 7:17] Pirate Russell: If you look up "bondage" in the dictionary, you might find definitions like "slavery" or "servitude" and indeed that's what the word means to some people.
[2008/09/23 7:17] Pirate Russell: To others, it means simply being restrained in some ways, "giving up some amount of control".
[2008/09/23 7:17] Pirate Russell: Types of Bondage submissives
[2008/09/23 7:17] Pirate Russell: People are into bondage for different reasons, what are they?
[2008/09/23 7:17] Pirate Russell: Why does a particular submissive want to get tied up?
[2008/09/23 7:18] Pirate Russell: It's a very fundamental and important question but one that's rarely asked and often difficult for the submissive to answer.
[2008/09/23 7:18] Pirate Russell: ~submissive/slave
[2008/09/23 7:18] Pirate Russell: This person is mainly interested in submitting to the Dominant. The act of submission is their main turn-on and the Dom is their main focus.
[2008/09/23 7:18] Pirate Russell: They enjoy being "used" for someone else's pleasure (although most also expect to also receive pleasure themselves).
[2008/09/23 7:18] Pirate Russell: For a serious submissive, physical bondage isn't all that important for most scenes, as the "bondage" can just as easily be psychological (i.e. the Dominant orders them not to move from a given position).
[2008/09/23 7:19] Pirate Russell: ~Loss of Control Lover
[2008/09/23 7:19] Pirate Russell: This person is very different from the submissive/slave.
[2008/09/23 7:19] Pirate Russell: They don't so much submit to the Dominant, as submit to the bondage.
[2008/09/23 7:19] Pirate Russell: They want to feel as out-of-control as possible. They view bondage as the primary means for the Dominant to make them feel as helpless as possible, rather than as an end in itself.
[2008/09/23 7:19] Pirate Russell: They often love severe bondage like sensory deprivation and mummification. They might judge a hood or gag by its effectiveness not what it looks like or what it's made out of.
[2008/09/23 7:20] Pirate Russell: They like the bondage inescapable and may play without a safeword to end the scene.
[2008/09/23 7:20] Pirate Russell: ~Endorphin junkie.
[2008/09/23 7:20] Pirate Russell: This person is subtly different from the others. They crave a very specific kind of intensity most of us call pain.
[2008/09/23 7:20] Pirate Russell: They're unique enough to deserve their own category. For them, bondage opens the door for various pain scenes.
[2008/09/23 7:20] Pirate Russell: For example, bondage may be required to hold an Endorphin junkie in place for a heavy whipping which in turn creates the endorphin rush they desire.
[2008/09/23 7:20] Pirate Russell: The endorphins are what drive them while the bondage is often necessary to get there.
[2008/09/23 7:21] Pirate Russell: Bondage can be divided into six main categories:
[2008/09/23 7:21] Pirate Russell: * Bondage that pulls parts of the body together (rope, straps, harnesses, handcuffs, shackles, etc).
[2008/09/23 7:21] Pirate Russell: * Bondage that spreads parts of the body apart (spreader bars, x-frames, four post beds, etc).
[2008/09/23 7:21] Pirate Russell: * Bondage that ties the body down to another object (such as chairs or stocks, posts, etc).
[2008/09/23 7:21] Pirate Russell: * Bondage that suspends the body from another object (suspension bondage).
[2008/09/23 7:21] Pirate Russell: * Bondage that restricts normal movement (hobble skirts, handcuffs, pony harness, etc).
[2008/09/23 7:22] Pirate Russell: * Bondage that wraps the whole body or a part of it in bindings such as cloth or plastic (saran wrap or cling film "mummification") as well as sleepsack bondage.
[2008/09/23 7:22] Pirate Russell: Some of the large variety of restraints used in bondage:
[2008/09/23 7:22] Pirate Russell: * Rope, often preferred because of its flexibility. Rigging, however, requires considerable skill and practice to do safely.
[2008/09/23 7:22] Pirate Russell: * Chains, including police handcuffs, thumbcuffs and belly chains.
[2008/09/23 7:22] Pirate Russell: * Institutional restraints, including straitjackets.
[2008/09/23 7:22] Pirate Russell: * Purpose-made bondage gear, such as monogloves, sleepsacks, bondage hooks and bondage tables.
[2008/09/23 7:23] Pirate Russell: Some simple bondage techniques:
[2008/09/23 7:23] Pirate Russell: * Verbal bondage, in which (as the name suggests) the top simply tells the bottom to do something.
[2008/09/23 7:23] Pirate Russell: * Simply tying the hands together in front or behind.
[2008/09/23 7:23] Pirate Russell: * Anchoring the hands to the front, back or sides of a belt at the waist.
[2008/09/23 7:23] Pirate Russell: * A spread eagle, with the limbs splayed out and fastened by wrists and ankles to bedposts, door frame or some other anchoring point.
[2008/09/23 7:23] Pirate Russell: * A hogtie securing each wrist to its corresponding ankle behind the back (wider, padded restraints such as bondage cuffs are recommended for this).
[2008/09/23 7:24] Pirate Russell: * The Balltie securing wrists to ankles, in front, with the knees drawn up to the chest
[2008/09/23 7:24] Pirate Russell: * The crotch rope involves pulling a rope between the labia to apply pressure to the female genitals. Sometimes a knot is placed in the rope at the position of the clitoris to intensify the sensation.
[2008/09/23 7:24] Pirate Russell: Some more complex techniques:
[2008/09/23 7:24] Pirate Russell: * The reverse prayer position (not recommended unless the subject has flexible shoulders).
[2008/09/23 7:25] Pirate Russell: * An over-arm tie, in which the arms are brought over the head, and the wrists fastened together behind the head and then by a length of rope, chain or strapping to a belt at the waist.
[2008/09/23 7:25] Pirate Russell: There are also some common fantasy settings in which bondage is often played:
[2008/09/23 7:25] Pirate Russell: * Rape, ravishment and/or abduction: The top fictitiously seizes or abducts the consenting bottom and has complete control to do what he/she pleases.
[2008/09/23 7:25] Pirate Russell: * Dominance/slavery: A training session occurs in which rewards for obedience and punishment for defiance are given. Humiliation is usually involved.
[2008/09/23 7:25] Pirate Russell: * Predicament bondage: The bottom is given a choice between two tortures. For example, caning on the rear or flogging on the chest. If the bottom cannot stand one any longer, the top will start the other.
[2008/09/23 7:25] Pirate Russell: * This can also be done mechanically, like having a bottom squat and rigging a crotch rope to tighten if they attempt to stand.
[2008/09/23 7:26] Pirate Russell: Self Bondage
[2008/09/23 7:26] Pirate Russell: Technique in self-bondage is more complex, involving special methods to apply the bondage to oneself, and also to effect a release after a lapsed period of time.
[2008/09/23 7:26] Pirate Russell: Self-bondage carries a higher risk, particularly because it violates the first principle of bondage safety: to never leave a bound person alone.
[2008/09/23 7:26] Pirate Russell: Without someone to release them in the event of an emergency or medical crisis, self-bondage can be lethal to its practitioners.
[2008/09/23 7:26] Pirate Russell: It has been estimated in the medical literature there are around 500-1000 deaths every year in the United States due to autoerotic asphyxia (self-strangulation) alone.
[2008/09/23 7:26] Pirate Russell: Safety
[2008/09/23 7:26] Pirate Russell:
[2008/09/23 7:27] Pirate Russell: Many people regard bondage as safe when conducted between sober, trusted partners who are fully aware of the risks involved and the precautions necessary to ensure safety.
[2008/09/23 7:27] Pirate Russell: Partners who are in committed relationships may have a greater basis for trusting each other. Performing acts in a supervised location, such as a dungeon, or with a group of trusted friends may also increase safety.
[2008/09/23 7:27] Pirate Russell: There is also a subculture of people who seek out others interested in bondage and pursue such activities with people who they do not know well.
[2008/09/23 7:27] Pirate Russell: This subculture has given rise to the safe, sane and consensual credo, also known as "SSC".
[2008/09/23 7:27] Pirate Russell: Safety precautions include:
[2008/09/23 7:27] Pirate Russell: * The use of a "safeword," or some clear way for the subject to indicate genuine distress and a wish to abort.
[2008/09/23 7:27] Pirate Russell: * Never leaving a bound person alone.
[2008/09/23 7:28] Pirate Russell: * Avoiding positions or restraints which may induce postural asphyxia (suffocation).
[2008/09/23 7:28] Pirate Russell: * Making sure that the subject changes positions at least once an hour (to avoid circulation problems).
[2008/09/23 7:28] Pirate Russell: * Making sure that the subject can be released quickly in an emergency.
[2008/09/23 7:29] Pirate Russell: * Avoiding restraints which impair breathing. (Gags or hoods which block the mouth can become asphyxial hazards if the subject vomits or the nose becomes otherwise blocked.)
[2008/09/23 7:29] Pirate Russell: Ok, looks like we're bogged down in lag, again
[2008/09/23 7:29] Pirate Russell: * Remaining sober; alcohol and drugs should be avoided.
[2008/09/23 7:30] Pirate Russell: One very simple safety measure is to ask the subject every so often if he or she is all right.
[2008/09/23 7:30] Pirate Russell: Another is to check body parts like hands and feet for numbness or coldness, which can happen if nerves have been pinched or blood circulation has been blocked.
[2008/09/23 7:30] Pirate Russell: Another is to check for skin discoloration. Skin that does not get enough oxygen turns bluish. If blood can get in, but can't get out because one of the veins has been blocked, that part of the body turns purple.
[2008/09/23 7:30] Pirate Russell: If the subject has been gagged or can otherwise not verbally communicate, a different form of the safeword is needed. For instance, they may hum a simple tune, or opening and closing one or both hands repeatedly, or releasing an object held in one hand(such as a rubber ball, or a scarf).
[2008/09/23 7:31] Pirate Russell: Some simple preparations may also be helpful:
[2008/09/23 7:31] Pirate Russell: * Food. It is surprisingly common for people (especially those on diets) to faint during a long session. Having a regular meal beforehand is recommended; being fed small snacks during play may also help avoid fainting.
[2008/09/23 7:31] Pirate Russell: * Cutting tools. A pair of EMT scissors is recommended (useful for safely cutting rope and tape off skin).
[2008/09/23 7:31] Pirate Russell: * Keyed-alike padlocks, if chains are being used.
[2008/09/23 7:32] Pirate Russell: It should be noted that scenes depicted in bondage photographs and videos are chosen for their visual appeal and fantasy value. In most cases they cannot be "acted out" with good results.
[2008/09/23 7:32] Pirate Russell: The reasons for bondage:
[2008/09/23 7:32] Pirate Russell: People who find it erotic to be tied up find it so for a variety of reasons:
[2008/09/23 7:32] Pirate Russell: * The most frequently cited reason is a mental freedom from inhibitions and responsibility since they have, in a way, given up control of the sexual situation to follow. This is sometimes referred to as a "power exchange."
[2008/09/23 7:33] Pirate Russell: * Some like the tactile feeling of restraint, that is, the feeling of pressure or pulling
[2008/09/23 7:33] Pirate Russell: * Some enjoy the feeling of helplessness for its own sake. Some like to struggle aggressively against their bonds, particularly when being sexually or otherwise stimulated.
There are some in this category who play bondage games that do not include a significant sexual component.
[2008/09/23 7:33] Pirate Russell: * Wishing to please their partner, and the stimulation engendered by their partner's pleasure in it
[2008/09/23 7:33] Pirate Russell: * To intensify the experience of orgasm control or of orgasm denial.
[2008/09/23 7:33] Pirate Russell: * Some derive pleasure from symbolic degradation (less common). This can include those who enjoy role playing prison or mental hospital situations.
[2008/09/23 7:34] Pirate Russell: * Fetishistic interest in the mechanics of bondage, with particular interest in the equipment and restraints used.
[2008/09/23 7:34] Pirate Russell: Some of these people are interested in the look, feel, and aroma of leather and rubber restraints. Others are fascinated by the relationship between the geometry of the tie, the degrees of freedom remaining and the feelings elicited.
[2008/09/23 7:34] Pirate Russell: * As an addition to other BDSM activities
[2008/09/23 7:35] Pirate Russell: * Like hang gliding or mountaineering, some feel that bondage allows them to do something potentially dangerous in a safe way.
[2008/09/23 7:35] Pirate Russell: * Extreme forms of bondage such as mummification some people enjoy because it is like being placed in a sensory deprivation tank and may allow the person being placed in extreme bondage to experience an out-of-body experience.
[2008/09/23 7:35] Pirate Russell: * In the wide range of human sexual experience, there are certainly more reasons as well.
[2008/09/23 7:35] Pirate Russell: * People enjoy the feeling of being dominated over, being abused or being taken care of.
People who enjoy tying other people up are motivated by a variety of reasons, including:
[2008/09/23 7:35] Pirate Russell: * Taking pleasure in the erotic submission of their partner
[2008/09/23 7:36] Pirate Russell: * The feeling of trust which comes from another person placing their physical freedom in their hands
[2008/09/23 7:36] Pirate Russell: * Wishing to please their partner, and the stimulation engendered by their partner's pleasure in it
[2008/09/23 7:36] Pirate Russell: * Fetishistic interest in the elegance of bondage, with particular interest in the geometric patterns and symmetry (or artistic asymmetry) of the restraint
[2008/09/23 7:37] Pirate Russell: * Using bondage as an adjunct to other BDSM activities
[2008/09/23 7:37] Pirate Russell: * Enjoyment of the power and control one has over a restrained partner.
[2008/09/23 7:37] Pirate Russell: Citation:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bondage_(BDSM)
[2008/09/23 7:37] Pirate Russell: Yipe,
Citation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bondage_(BDSM)
[2008/09/23 7:38] Pirate Russell: Questions, comments?
[2008/09/23 7:39] Pirate Russell taps the microphone... is this thing on?
[2008/09/23 7:39] ***GH***: haha
[2008/09/23 7:39] Zealot Benmergui: taps, or laps?
[2008/09/23 7:39] ***LG*** wonders if she missed the ball display and looks at Zealot
[2008/09/23 7:39] ***AP*** sticks her hand up, and shouts excitedly, "I love the power exchange and the feeling of helplessness that comes with being hogtied! - BUT can't really explain why..." :))))
[2008/09/23 7:40] Zealot Benmergui: If you can explain why, it is sort of less sexy....
[2008/09/23 7:40] Pirate Russell: Well, ***AP***, we dont' HAVE to explain wy!
[2008/09/23 7:40] Pirate Russell: Guess I should have set up a demo! ***IM*** come on up!
[2008/09/23 7:40] Pirate Russell: Just kidding
[2008/09/23 7:40] ***ML***: giggles
[2008/09/23 7:40] ***AP***: true, but sometimes it just feels like...hey this is good, surely there must be an explaination!?
[2008/09/23 7:40] ***AP***: LOL
[2008/09/23 7:41] Pirate Russell: I was kidding, hun
[2008/09/23 7:41] ***ML*** wonders if its oki to blind fold the Master every once n awhlie .. grins
[2008/09/23 7:41] Zealot Benmergui: well, you can try to find one, but it is an emotionally dangerous question...like "Why do you love me"or "Does this corset make my ass look fat?"
[2008/09/23 7:41] ***GH***: haha sis
[2008/09/23 7:41] Pirate Russell: I agree with both ***AP*** AND Zealot.
[2008/09/23 7:41] ***ML*** grins
[2008/09/23 7:41] ***LG***: thank you ..I must go now ..bye all sorry I was late *eg*
[2008/09/23 7:41] Pirate Russell: Yes, it's nice to know why, but sometimes it ruins it
[2008/09/23 7:42] ***ML2***: maybe for some it is more then tactile and could be also what is auditorialy happening (forgive the spelling)
[2008/09/23 7:42] ***ML2***: sorry for got the ? at the end
[2008/09/23 7:42] ***AP***: oh yes, i understand that, Zealot.... and verbal bondage - being TOLD seeing the PLEASURE that comes from my Master, as he sees how much I WANT to please = well those are the invisible ties!
[2008/09/23 7:42] Pirate Russell: No worries ***LG***, the trancripts for this and all classes are at http://collegeofkink.blogspot.com
[2008/09/23 7:42] Zealot Benmergui: auditorially..not sure what you mean with that
[2008/09/23 7:42] ***GA***: ***AP***, my former Dom awlays used to ask post scene "What did you like / dislike and why?" It always made me giggle because all I knew at that point was that it was soooooo good! Sometimes, things are best left without analysing. :)
[2008/09/23 7:43] Zealot Benmergui: at least he didn;t have a form
[2008/09/23 7:43] ***AP***: I agree ***GA***, maybe i'm not nuts afterall :)
[2008/09/23 7:43] ***GA*** smiles
[2008/09/23 7:43] ***AP*** winks back
[2008/09/23 7:43] Zealot Benmergui: "Help us improve...rate the following from one to five...Clenliness....Leather care....orgasm....
[2008/09/23 7:44] Pirate Russell: Or like the Eye Doc... which is better Cane or Whip.... Whip or Scourge....
[2008/09/23 7:44] ***AP***: I and i agree with Mathius' point about it being more 'tactile'...
[2008/09/23 7:45] Zealot Benmergui: "Point in the direction the strap on is pointing...
[2008/09/23 7:45] ***ML2***: speaking of the auditory aspect maybe they are excited by the feeling that being bound and if something physical is happening like flogging , so there are two senses being stimulated that is what I was meaning
[2008/09/23 7:45] Pirate Russell: Well there's touch and hearing
[2008/09/23 7:45] ***AP***: or you could include sensory deprivations...***ML2***
[2008/09/23 7:46] Zealot Benmergui: ah I understand Mr. ***ML2***..yes, the sensory overload can be a lot of fun
[2008/09/23 7:46] ***ML2*** grins wickedly
[2008/09/23 7:46] ***AP***: *you bet!*
[2008/09/23 7:46] ***MS***: << loves sensory dep
[2008/09/23 7:46] Pirate Russell: Look at how many kids enjoy geing startled, what is that if it's not momentary sensory overload?
[2008/09/23 7:46] ***AP*** would like to shake ***MS***'s hand!
[2008/09/23 7:46] Zealot Benmergui: Sensory dep...I never see the pointof it
[2008/09/23 7:46] Zealot Benmergui: but I hear it is good...just not to my taste I feel
[2008/09/23 7:47] ***AP***: that feeling of loss of control, totally helpless and in the trust of another, Zealot
[2008/09/23 7:47] ***MS***: anticipation :)
[2008/09/23 7:47] Pirate Russell: If you turn off My lights, and Ipod, I'm likely to go to sleep
[2008/09/23 7:47] Pirate Russell: LOL
[2008/09/23 7:47] ***AP***: *helplessness?
[2008/09/23 7:47] ***GA*** raises hand "May I add a comment on safety?"
[2008/09/23 7:47] ***ML2***: lol
[2008/09/23 7:47] Pirate Russell: Please do, ***GA***
[2008/09/23 7:47] Zealot Benmergui: I understand, the previous two sentences were one long pun..feel free to ignore them
[2008/09/23 7:48] ***GA***: There are times when the bottom has entered sub space, or close to it. At times like that, when the senses are confused, it is near impossible to use a safe word or action if it should be neccassary. It is imperative that the top is keenly aware of the bottoms bodily reactions in various situations so he/she can determine if there when there is a difficulty. It is why I would never recommend anyone trying more than mild bondage as a first outing or at a party.
[2008/09/23 7:48] ***AP***: oh yes, my favourite topic! yes, you need to know your partner has the right technique....
[2008/09/23 7:49] Pirate Russell: Yes, that is VERY true, ***GA***, however at a party, many eyes might see something the Dominant doesn't
[2008/09/23 7:49] Zealot Benmergui: well, there are always certain clues a good dom looks for....
[2008/09/23 7:49] ***GA*** smiles
[2008/09/23 7:49] Zealot Benmergui: excessive bleeding...
[2008/09/23 7:49] Zealot Benmergui: turning blue
[2008/09/23 7:49] Zealot Benmergui: falling over and not moving anymore
[2008/09/23 7:50] Pirate Russell: The paramedics cutting the collar off, AGAIN! (HEY THOSE AREN"T CHEAP!!)
[2008/09/23 7:50] ***GA*** giggles
[2008/09/23 7:50] Zealot Benmergui: The police surrounding him screaming PUT THE CROP DOWN< BITCH!
[2008/09/23 7:50] ***AP*** says, "There are dangers with any kind of bondage, take suspension(for example) ; check for faulty equipment, weak suspension point or just a poor technique!"
[2008/09/23 7:50] ***AP***: Too funny Zealot! :)
[2008/09/23 7:50] Pirate Russell: BUt yeah, ***GA***, there is a thing such as "Dom Space" too. I've hit it only once in SL, and I'm not a real life Domme
[2008/09/23 7:51] Zealot Benmergui: I would say Miss ***AP*** that suspension is something that should never be done in RL unless you have a lot of experience with your partner
[2008/09/23 7:51] ***AP*** says, 'you know, one min you're hanging and he next - splat - with a head bump the size of the Eifel Tower!'
[2008/09/23 7:51] Zealot Benmergui: and even then, I would recommend testing the gear once, non sexually, before playing
[2008/09/23 7:51] ***AP***: exactly Zealot
[2008/09/23 7:51] Pirate Russell: Or an experienced 3rd party observer, "safety officer" could work, too!
[2008/09/23 7:52] Zealot Benmergui: yes
[2008/09/23 7:52] ***GA***: I've been at the receivign end of that Pirate - when the Dom reaches and can easily overstep a boundary because of the adrenalin. It's why I admore dom/mes so much, that they really HAVE to have self control.
[2008/09/23 7:52] ***AP***: oh yes, spotters - who will help get the sub down, or untied in case of emergency.
[2008/09/23 7:52] Zealot Benmergui: anything that if done wrong, will not result in bad sex, but in death...treat very very gingerly
[2008/09/23 7:52] Pirate Russell: IT's not just adrenalin, most of Us extend ourselves almost as much as y'all do
[2008/09/23 7:53] ***GA*** nods "Indeed Pirate"
[2008/09/23 7:53] ***AP***: yes ***GA***, i agree with you there.
[2008/09/23 7:53] Pirate Russell: And in mid scene, it's easy to lose track of YOURSELF, when you're playing the rapist, or whatever, just in a role
[2008/09/23 7:53] Zealot Benmergui: nods..and some Doms, especially inexperienced ones, will go to far becuase they feel that they should, or that the sub wants them to
[2008/09/23 7:54] Zealot Benmergui: and the sub may well want them to....but it is up to the Dom to know where the line is, and honor that
[2008/09/23 7:54] Pirate Russell: I didn't go to far, but as ***IM*** will attest, that Sunday afternoon, I was NOT Myself!
[2008/09/23 7:55] Pirate Russell: And not to insult the submissives among U/us, it's like a horse.... they'll run 'till their heart explodes, it's up to the rider to not let that happen
[2008/09/23 7:55] Zealot Benmergui waves his program at ***RV***
[2008/09/23 7:55] ***RV*** smiles
[2008/09/23 7:55] ***GA*** smiles to see ***RV***
[2008/09/23 7:56] Pirate Russell: ***RV***, you're tardy, see Me after class for your spanking!
[2008/09/23 7:56] ***RV*** grins
[2008/09/23 7:56] Zealot Benmergui: Ah hell, spank her now
[2008/09/23 7:56] Pirate Russell: Ok, then NO spanking
[2008/09/23 7:56] ***RV***: lol
[2008/09/23 7:56] Pirate Russell: Nah, it's supposed to be a punnishment, not a reward, Z
[2008/09/23 7:56] ***AP***: So true Miss Pirate, it's up to the rider, i agree
[2008/09/23 7:56] Zealot Benmergui: I have seen so many people spank ***RV***..the screencaps have their own folder
[2008/09/23 7:57] ***RV***: oh hush you
[2008/09/23 7:57] Pirate Russell: I got the videos on an external hard drive
[2008/09/23 7:58] Zealot Benmergui: In the heat of the moment it canbe hard for either Master or sub to see that things have gone too far...so in that case, it is up to the Master...
[2008/09/23 7:58] Zealot Benmergui: a good approach is setting a recording of your grandmother calling your name to be triggered 60 minutes into the session
[2008/09/23 7:58] Zealot Benmergui: can break things right up
[2008/09/23 7:58] ***GA***: eek!
[2008/09/23 7:59] Pirate Russell: But not your ex, may spur you on to more mayhem!
[2008/09/23 7:59] ***AP*** screws her face up in disgust!
[2008/09/23 7:59] Zealot Benmergui: though if YOU call the name of yoru ex..that can also shut the scene down
[2008/09/23 7:59] ***MS***: hehe
[2008/09/23 7:59] Pirate Russell: Faster than a safeword!
[2008/09/23 7:59] ***AP*** giggles
[2008/09/23 8:00] Zealot Benmergui: Oh God, OHGOD YES FRANK!!!....wha?
[2008/09/23 8:00] ***RV***: lol
[2008/09/23 8:00] Pirate Russell: You still *seeing* Frank, Z?
[2008/09/23 8:00] ***AP***: *smiles* we've all been there ...
[2008/09/23 8:00] Zealot Benmergui: every time I close my eyes, every time I hear a dog bark, every time I smell laudry detergent
[2008/09/23 8:01] Pirate Russell: LOL
[2008/09/23 8:01] Zealot Benmergui: I weep at the dentists now
[2008/09/23 8:01] ***AP***: Hey, anybody tried Shibari?
[2008/09/23 8:01] Zealot Benmergui: RL or SL?
[2008/09/23 8:01] ***AP***: both? :)
[2008/09/23 8:01] Zealot Benmergui: yes
[2008/09/23 8:01] Zealot Benmergui: most important thing to be careful of is circulation
[2008/09/23 8:02] ***MS***: :) ive seen it
[2008/09/23 8:02] ***AP*** enjoys wearing Shibari under clothes, coz no one can tell you are wearing them whilst walking around the supermarket...!
[2008/09/23 8:02] Zealot Benmergui: and the position has to start out comfortable
[2008/09/23 8:02] ***GA***: And pressure points with knot placement
[2008/09/23 8:02] Pirate Russell: In Shibari, no one can hear you scream!
[2008/09/23 8:02] ***AP***: nods! Can be very arty, too
[2008/09/23 8:02] ***AP***: LOL
[2008/09/23 8:02] Zealot Benmergui: I have seen some gorgeous photos and artwork of Shibari
[2008/09/23 8:03] Zealot Benmergui: and yes, done right it is very beautiful
[2008/09/23 8:03] ***AP***: Yes, very beautiful some of them are, Zealot - really captures the imagination...and how clever some people are!
[2008/09/23 8:03] Pirate Russell: Yes, Z and done worong, Shibary is knot
[2008/09/23 8:03] Zealot Benmergui: done badly, it looks like were on Survivor, and got voted off late
[2008/09/23 8:04] ***AP***: LOL yes, Miss Pirate
[2008/09/23 8:04] ***AP***: a tangled mess, you cant get out of! :)
[2008/09/23 8:04] Zealot Benmergui: OK, I just had a laural and hardy image I would pay money for someone to beat out of me
[2008/09/23 8:04] ***AP***: LOL
[2008/09/23 8:05] ***AP***: Mine was more like Tom and Jerry!
[2008/09/23 8:05] ***ML2***: right I i think you passed it to me... ewww
[2008/09/23 8:05] Zealot Benmergui: I would live with that
[2008/09/23 8:05] Pirate Russell: how much?
[2008/09/23 8:06] Pirate Russell: Is ALWAYS in search of a good business opportunity!
[2008/09/23 8:06] Zealot Benmergui: looking for some cash on the side again? The Repo gig not panning out?
[2008/09/23 8:06] ***RV*** chuckles
[2008/09/23 8:06] Pirate Russell: Nope, neither is the hooking!
[2008/09/23 8:06] ***AP*** screams with laughter!
[2008/09/23 8:06] Pirate Russell: Well, unfortunately RL is grabbing Me today, I HAVE to run, please keep up the chat.....
[2008/09/23 8:07] Zealot Benmergui tosses Pirate an apple
[2008/09/23 8:07] ***AP***: Thank you v ery much for such an fun chat, Miss Pirate!
[2008/09/23 8:07] ***GA***: Thank you Ms Pirate, that was informative and fun. :)
[2008/09/23 8:07] ***ML2***: Thank you for the talk good lady Pirate
[2008/09/23 8:07] ***MS***: thank you for all the info :)
[2008/09/23 8:07] Pirate Russell: As always, it's my pleasure, please don't stop just cuz I have ot!
[2008/09/23 8:07] Zealot Benmergui: OH Pirate
[2008/09/23 8:07] Pirate Russell: Z, would you finsish up the moderation?
[2008/09/23 8:07] Pirate Russell: and then finish it up
[2008/09/23 8:08] Zealot Benmergui: before you fade./...next Monday I won't be lecturing...Rosh HaShana
[2008/09/23 8:08] Zealot Benmergui: and sure
[2008/09/23 8:08] Pirate Russell: Ok, is that a "Happy Rosh HaShana"?
[2008/09/23 8:08] Zealot Benmergui: yeah, that'll work
[2008/09/23 8:08] Pirate Russell: dunno with some holidays, whether "happy" is appropriate!
[2008/09/23 8:08] Zealot Benmergui: Happy Yom Kippur is always a bit..strange
[2008/09/23 8:09] Pirate Russell: ciao for now Y/y'all
[2008/09/23 8:09] ***GA***: lol
[2008/09/23 8:09] Zealot Benmergui: So does anyone have an example of when a scene they were involved with went too far?
[2008/09/23 8:10] Zealot Benmergui: remember, that may not just mean physical mayhem and severed arteries
[2008/09/23 8:10] Zealot Benmergui: it can also be the point where a scene jumps the shark
[2008/09/23 8:10] ***AP***: I saw one, once, where the sub had a hood on and panicked, scared me to death, Sir,
[2008/09/23 8:10] Zealot Benmergui: when up until that point, it was great and hot and wonderful...then it went on too long, or something changed..and you felt silly
[2008/09/23 8:10] Zealot Benmergui: hoods are delicate
[2008/09/23 8:10] Zealot Benmergui: some subs love them..some won;t even put one on
[2008/09/23 8:11] Zealot Benmergui: for me that is always a thing for the sub to ask for
[2008/09/23 8:11] ***AP***: Yes, experienced handlers that is the key...
[2008/09/23 8:11] Zealot Benmergui: to me they are always dangerous becuase they can limit eye contact
[2008/09/23 8:11] ***AP***: and knowing your sub and his or her ability helps too i suppose -
[2008/09/23 8:12] Zealot Benmergui: sometimes if safewords won;t come, the eyes are the only way you can tell she is in trouble
[2008/09/23 8:12] ***AP***: yes best to have something to hold, which you can drop if in danger...but it only a precaution, i would want to risk my life with that one 'sign'.
[2008/09/23 8:13] Zealot Benmergui: like all bondage, ti si a matter of preference..and should be tried once or twice out of scene
[2008/09/23 8:13] Zealot Benmergui: if someone is going to have a clautrophoic reaction to a hood, best not to have one while nude and on the brink of orgasm, or while being watched by 4 other couples
[2008/09/23 8:14] ***AP***: ;) True!
[2008/09/23 8:14] ***ML2***: would be awkwared
[2008/09/23 8:14] Zealot Benmergui: just messing about wuith the gear, testing it out, can take a lot of the poressure off
[2008/09/23 8:15] ***ML2***: would be true for chains and collars as well?
[2008/09/23 8:15] Zealot Benmergui: absolutely
[2008/09/23 8:15] Zealot Benmergui: try before you buy
[2008/09/23 8:15] ***AP*** nods
[2008/09/23 8:15] Zealot Benmergui: and use when nothing is riding on it
[2008/09/23 8:16] ***ML2*** nods
[2008/09/23 8:16] ***ML2***: I can see that is very true
[2008/09/23 8:16] Zealot Benmergui: feel free to mess about with any gear..test it, see what it's limits are, see how it feels
[2008/09/23 8:17] Zealot Benmergui: I would also recommend any Master or Dom who is going to use something on a girl, use it on himself first
[2008/09/23 8:17] Zealot Benmergui: feel it, get a sense of it
[2008/09/23 8:17] Zealot Benmergui: know what effect it will have
[2008/09/23 8:17] ***MS***: ...yea...cause those dragontails hurt...
[2008/09/23 8:17] ***MS***: hehe
[2008/09/23 8:17] Zealot Benmergui: absolutely
[2008/09/23 8:17] ***AP*** smiles, so true but very helpful...and a wonderful thing to actually do - means they care a huge amount
[2008/09/23 8:18] Zealot Benmergui: and just because you watched Fashionistas and the girls loved getting their pussies flogged...doesn;t mean your sub will be enchanted by it
[2008/09/23 8:18] Zealot Benmergui: and even if your LAST girl loved it, this one may not...test, experiment, talk
[2008/09/23 8:18] ***AP***: ooooh no! LOL Each to their own...
[2008/09/23 8:19] Zealot Benmergui: nods...remember..love is dignified, submission can be dignified..sex...no dignity whatsoever
[2008/09/23 8:19] Zealot Benmergui: it is silly looking, it is messy, it is sweaty and gooey...
[2008/09/23 8:20] Zealot Benmergui: so play with it...enjoy the toys
[2008/09/23 8:20] ***ML*** smiles darly!
[2008/09/23 8:20] ***ML***: darkly*
[2008/09/23 8:20] Zealot Benmergui: I have spoken with other masters who ragged me out for that concept..saying I was dishonouring the equipment, therefore I didn;t take it seriously
[2008/09/23 8:20] Zealot Benmergui: yadda yadda yadda
[2008/09/23 8:20] Zealot Benmergui: leather is leather...
[2008/09/23 8:21] Zealot Benmergui: it is the emotion behind it that is important..the rest, just tools
[2008/09/23 8:21] Zealot Benmergui: and a true professional knows their tools inside and out, backwards and forewards
[2008/09/23 8:21] ***MS***: << prefers deer over cow... :P
[2008/09/23 8:22] Zealot Benmergui: I am always find of elf skin myself, tough to find these days
[2008/09/23 8:22] ***GA*** laughs softly
[2008/09/23 8:22] ***ML*** takes notes of Masters wants
[2008/09/23 8:23] ***ML2*** smirks
[2008/09/23 8:23] Zealot Benmergui: Bondage should be fun...and to be fun, it has to be at least ultimately safe
[2008/09/23 8:23] ***GH***: mmhmmmm ill say
[2008/09/23 8:23] Zealot Benmergui: most people into Bondage like it to be a little edgy..and little dangrous...ok
[2008/09/23 8:23] ***IM***: Or at least seem that way.
[2008/09/23 8:24] Zealot Benmergui: however, if someone is will to risk death, and considers that part of the kick...have them seek help
[2008/09/23 8:24] Zealot Benmergui: and yes ***IM***..the APPEARENCE of risk is more important then the reality
[2008/09/23 8:25] ***AP***: there's always the feeling that anything could happen, but always be safe in the knowledge that you have thoroughly prepared to your advantage
[2008/09/23 8:25] ***ML2***: yes, if you die at the hands of a Master it is them who will pay in the end, better safe and sane then ott
[2008/09/23 8:25] Zealot Benmergui: preperation limits variables...variables are dangerous
[2008/09/23 8:25] ***MS***: ...a butter knife feels the same as a real knife.... :)
[2008/09/23 8:25] ***AP***: :) smiles at ***MS***
[2008/09/23 8:26] ***MS***: or toothpicks ...at least under blindfold....
[2008/09/23 8:26] Zealot Benmergui: something can ALWAYS go wrong...you can slip while having straight missionary vanilla sex, brain yourself on the endtable and die right there on top of him....
[2008/09/23 8:26] ***AP*** grins
[2008/09/23 8:26] ***MS***: giggles ....
[2008/09/23 8:26] ***ML2*** chuckles
[2008/09/23 8:26] Zealot Benmergui: And let me tell you, that leaves emotional scars for...well, so I heard...
[2008/09/23 8:26] ***RV***: lol
[2008/09/23 8:27] ***IM***: Lots of dangers, heart attack, swat team, husband...
[2008/09/23 8:27] ***AP***: LOL
[2008/09/23 8:27] Zealot Benmergui: forgetting it was fumigation day
[2008/09/23 8:27] ***RV***: yikes
[2008/09/23 8:27] ***AP***: Sorry, shouldnt be sniggering about such fatalities, i do apologise!
[2008/09/23 8:27] ***MS***: cough
[2008/09/23 8:28] Zealot Benmergui: nah, laugh all you want...that is part of the point...
[2008/09/23 8:28] Zealot Benmergui: just be careful..and don;t take any of it too seriously
[2008/09/23 8:29] Zealot Benmergui: one final comment from me, then I will leave the floor to whoever else wants it
[2008/09/23 8:30] Zealot Benmergui: always have a first aid kit handy during scening
[2008/09/23 8:30] Zealot Benmergui: it is the little things that can ruin a powerful scene, like having to run around looking for a bandaid
[2008/09/23 8:30] ***RV*** agrees
[2008/09/23 8:31] Zealot Benmergui: next tuesday and thursday, Pirate will be teaching as normal....
[2008/09/23 8:31] ***IM*** giggles
[2008/09/23 8:31] Zealot Benmergui: no class next Monday, then class the following Monday with me...
[2008/09/23 8:32] Zealot Benmergui: that lecture will be called "But he told me he would be NICE...": RL Meeting Dos and Don'ts

Is it supposed to be this SOFT?: Right and wrong D/S 9/22/08

[7:12] Zealot Benmergui: Welcome A/all to the House of V’s College of Kink. My name is Zealot Benmergui, Baron BardHaven and I will be your host today. The topic for today is “Is it supposed to be this SOFT?”: Right and wrong D/s. We will be considering how one can do D/s wrong, and the questions to ask yourself to find out if you are doing it right. We will also try to put to rest some of our normal nagging misconceptions about D/s. Please note that for the purpose of clarity, I will tend to use “she” to refer to a submissive and “he” to refer to a Dominant, but either can be of any gender.
[7:12] ***AP***: Hello, sorry I'm a little late...Do excuse me
[7:12] Zealot Benmergui: ***GH***...can you hear me dear?
[7:12] ***GA*** vacates her seat for ***LG***
[7:13] ***GH***: yes i can,,sorry Sir was afk
[7:13] ***EC*** smiles tenderly at Gabrielle
[7:13] Zealot Benmergui: good..just checking chat range
[7:14] Zealot Benmergui: Now, once you hear my first comment on this subject, don;t throw objects at me right off..and I don't mean panties. You can throw those anytime..I mean, sharp, hurtful things...
[7:14] Zealot Benmergui: Having a slave or a Master can often be like having a baby.
[7:14] ***TN*** laughs!
[7:14] ***LG*** gulps " no one said panties were needed "
[7:14] ***RV***: lol
[7:14] Zealot Benmergui: Now I am not referring to diaperplay, or the tendency for daddy to spank…rather to the reaction of the people around you. If you have ever carried a baby through a crowded shopping mall, either your own or one that was left unattended outside the Walmart, you will know that EVERYBODY assumes they can give you advice since you are clearly doing it wrong. “You should cover its head when it is this cold”, “Isn’t that jumper too hot for spring?” “Asshole, you dress him in frilly shit like that he’ll end up a homo” “If you sauté it in white wine before braising it won’t have that gamey after taste”.
[7:15] Zealot Benmergui: Everyone has an opinion, and they feel perfectly entitled to share it with you..after all..you have a baby.
[7:15] ***TN***: haha, I think that begins from the moment they see you are pregnant!
[7:16] Zealot Benmergui: NO, pregnant you get the horror stories
[7:16] ***GH***: so true
[7:16] Zealot Benmergui: "MY sister in law carried her second baby that low...the one that killed her,"
[7:16] ***TN*** grins, "Yes that too Sir!"
[7:17] ***LG*** wonders what if she doesnt want a baby but wants a Master ..but now learns it like having a baby and is now confused
[7:17] ***GH***: for some reason people love to scare you when your pregnant,,,with my first they scard the shit out of me
[7:17] Zealot Benmergui: anyway....moving back to the metaphor
[7:17] ***LG*** twirls her hair and looks for the handouts
[7:17] Zealot Benmergui: Having a slave or a Master can be like that. EVERYONE assumes you are doing it wrong, and that you really want them to set you straight.
[7:17] Zealot Benmergui: “Are you going to let her talk to You like that?” “Do you have such a low self esteem that you think you are inferior to some Metallica reject wearing a leather codpiece?” “You need more backswing on that whip, mate…” “You are just role players if she doesn’t ask you to write out her grocery lists for her” “My Master could beat up your Master” “In Port Blarsh we let no Man rule slutflesh until he has bested a starving Palutz in single and terrible combat…just put on the HUD, click Fight and have at it, girlyman” “MY GOD YOU ARE LETTING THAT WHORE WEAR CLOTHING…YOU MADMAN!!!!”
[7:18] Zealot Benmergui: Everybody is eager to tell you everything you are doing wrong.
[7:18] ***RV*** chuckles
[7:18] ***LG*** wonders why everyone is wearing clothing
[7:18] ***wA***: * lauhgs at the ast one
[7:18] ***wA***: i dont
[7:19] Zealot Benmergui: There seems to be so many ways to do D/s wrong, one wonders if there is a way to do it right? Well, the answer is quite simple…
[7:19] Zealot Benmergui: ”It depends”.
[7:19] Zealot Benmergui: What is right and what is wrong is totally dependent on your relationship, and what both the Dom and the sub require from it. We are each different, we each have different needs. When those needs are met, it is “right”…when they are not, I don’t care if the Master has 30 years experience and the slave is a text book perfect submissive..it is STILL wrong.
[7:20] ***RK***: i agree 100%
[7:20] Zealot Benmergui: Of course, identifying something that is wrong is only part of it, identifying something right is shockingly hard.
[7:20] Zealot Benmergui: We all tend to be a bit pessamistic relationship wise
[7:20] Zealot Benmergui: We are always waiting for the piano to fall.
[7:21] ***PM***: no shit
[7:21] ***PM***: :)
[7:21] Zealot Benmergui: Our seemingly loving sub says "meep meep", sprints away, and we are left eating fallen mountainside
[7:22] Zealot Benmergui: How then do you know if something is right? Well, I suggest asking yourself certain questions.
[7:22] Zealot Benmergui: The first couple tend to work best in new relationships, but as always, your milage may vary.
[7:22] ***LG*** practises saying MEEP MEEP
[7:23] Zealot Benmergui glances at Miss ***LG***..."Best keep an eye on that one, she seems tricksey"
[7:23] Zealot Benmergui: The first and most obvious question is also the hardest. “What do I need from this relationship?” You may just want sex from a D/s relationship, or a sort of intimate friendship, or some kinky discipline…all of that is just as valid as those who are seeking a “soulmate” or a 24/7 master.
[7:23] ***LG*** looks up and looks over at Sir ***RK***
[7:23] Zealot Benmergui: There are lots of smaller questions inside that first one, including “Do I need to be collared.” “Do I need an exclusive relationship”…even “Do I need the relationship to be sexual”. Yes, a D/s relationship can be non-sexual. I have known several that are completely chaste. We tend to assume that D/s is at core sexual, in some ways since it is the easiest way to describe the emotional power and ramifications of the bond…but that intimacy can be expressed in many many ways, some of which involve wearing clothing.
[7:24] Zealot Benmergui: Equally as important, and just as difficult, is “What do I need to avoid in a relationship?” We all carry with us a certain amount of baggage. Just as every general is fighting the last war, so we are all fucking the last lover in any new relationship. We should always try to be aware of what we don’t want from a master or a sub, and do our best to be very clear about it from the very beginning.
[7:25] Zealot Benmergui: We all have things we hate in relationships, things we know we can’t handle, or that once the glow of new love fades, will have us digging through the cutlery drawer at 3 AM muttering “Blood” over and over again in Latin. We also have scars, nerves, left over from old hands and old wounds. The same is true for Sl as it is for RL. If we are direct and honest about such things, with both our self and our partner, we will save a lot of pain and confusion down the line.
[7:27] Zealot Benmergui: Once we have at least a working knowledge of those two questions, we need to dig into particulars. What sort of discipline do you prefer, what sort of public behavior, what sort of private. We have no way to be able to judge if a relationship is right for us, until we understand what IS right for us. Everyone loves being spontaneous…but I have never seen it work terribly well where love is concerned..and even less well with anything that involves an erection or an open flame.
[7:27] Zealot Benmergui: Far better to be careful, and communicative then it is to be spontaneous.
[7:28] ***OS***: ciau
[7:28] You decline Radio, Welsh Lakes (133, 132, 23) from A group member named Darkle Sands.
[7:28] Zealot Benmergui: Then of course, once we have thought all of that into the ground, and have drawn ourselves a picture of our perfect master or submissive, all ready to be cast in bronze…we need to remember such questions are most effective when starting a NEW relationship...how can we judge a relationship in progress. Is it right or wrong? Does it matter if momentum is enough to carry you along?
[7:28] Zealot Benmergui: The questions we ask about a relationship in progress are even more important than the others I have mentioned. They seem obvious, but in the heat of the moment they are very easy to lose track of.
[7:29] Zealot Benmergui: “Am I happy?” “Do I feel safe?” “Does my partner make me smile, laugh, moan…do they make me respond?” Do I gain something from this relationship that I value, that I would not have without it?” “Do I feel loved?” “Do I feel important to my Master or sub” “Are my needs (see a few paragraphs back) being met…can I meet THEIR needs?”
[7:30] Zealot Benmergui: "Do I feel i can share the answers to these questions with my Dom or sub?" "Would they be able to share their answers with me?"
[7:31] Zealot Benmergui: All of these questions are pieces to a puzzle....a puzzle that often we can;t see unless we step back from it so we can look at all of it, at once.
[7:31] Zealot Benmergui: The way you know if you are doing D/s right is no different then it is in any emotional relationship...does it FEEL right?
[7:32] Zealot Benmergui: If it does feel right to both you and your partner, and if the answers to these questions, and any others that you feel relevant to you, please you...then it doesn;t matter what anyone else says.
[7:33] Zealot Benmergui: Let them do what they want with THEIR baby...you are taking care of yours just right.
[7:33] Zealot Benmergui: and with that, as always, I open the floor to comments, discussion, verbal abuse and group sex
[7:33] ***RV***: lol
[7:33] ***GA*** laughs softly
[7:33] ***LG*** grins as she thinks but does not speak
[7:34] ***ML*** moans softly..
[7:34] ***PM***: *Perk*
[7:34] Zealot Benmergui: There she goes again
[7:34] ***PM***: That was to the group sex comment, but the moan was nice too Merc.
[7:35] Zealot Benmergui: Well, let me ask this...does anyone have a relationship thermometer? A certain feeling or question which you use to gauge how things are in a relationship?
[7:35] ***NB***: is this class over?
[7:35] ***RV***: what's the best way to deal with people who want to tell you why you're doing it wrong?
[7:35] ***ML*** giggles
[7:35] Zealot Benmergui: Depends onhow they say it..if they mean well and are polite..say Thank you and smile
[7:35] Zealot Benmergui: if not, say Fuck You and go for your large pointy thing
[7:35] ***PM***: I think we're back on Humble
[7:35] ***RV***: lol
[7:36] ***EC***: I know inside when it feels right, just find it hard to describe
[7:36] ***RK***: as ever Zealot, what you say crystallises common sense
[7:37] ***GA***: ***RV***, I would usually respond with a polite smile and a calm voice saying "Thank you for sharing you're opinion." Anything else migth just provoke and endless debate that I really would not want.
[7:37] ***RK***: and i agree 100% that every relationship is different and the only ones who can say if it is right or not, are the participants PROVIDED they are open and honest with each other
[7:37] ***RV*** nods
[7:37] ***EC***: totally open and honest :-)
[7:37] Zealot Benmergui: Miss ***ML***, will you please say Communication?
[7:37] ***ML***: of course Sir
[7:37] ***ML***: COMMUNICATION
[7:38] ***ML*** smiles brightly
[7:38] Zealot Benmergui: Somewhere, Pirate just shivered
[7:38] ***RV*** chuckles .... now Pirate will be happy
[7:38] ***PM***: so much for the soft moan. :(
[7:38] ***ML***: ohhh am still moanin lightly in tiff ear .. thats why she is quiet ;)
[7:38] Zealot Benmergui: Communication is certainly essential...but it also helps to do the heavy lifting for yourself..be honest, think things through
[7:39] ***ML***: what if you have a very very shy sub that has a problem communicating?
[7:40] Zealot Benmergui: then that needs to be adressed early and often
[7:40] ***RK***: then its the job of the Dom/me to encourage that shy sub
[7:40] ***EC***: If you can't find a way of communicating effectively between the two of you I can't see there is much point
[7:40] Zealot Benmergui: make it part of their submission
[7:40] ***ML***: how?
[7:40] ***RK***: to increase their feeling of security so that they CAN voice their feelings
[7:40] Zealot Benmergui: don;t let her cum until she tells you how she is, if anything is bothering her
[7:41] ***RK***: hmmm, my way would be diferent, but same result
[7:41] ***GA*** raises her right eyebrow
[7:41] Zealot Benmergui: effectively, I just feel that anything is better when it ends with dessert or an orgasm
[7:41] ***EC*** smiles at Gabrielle
[7:41] ***RK*** looks at gabrielle's left eyebrow
[7:41] ***LG***: what if the sub is not quite sure of all of what they want out of it all does that fall back to the Dom to assist or should you hve clear needs and wants first ?
[7:41] ***ML*** licks her lips at banana splits
[7:41] ***LG***: you not meaning you of course
[7:42] ***GA*** smiles and raises both eyebrows and hides her pot of tirumisu
[7:42] ***RV***: i think it's part of your responsibility to figure out what you want
[7:42] ***LG*** smiles
[7:42] ***EC***: lol
[7:42] ***RK***: tiramisu???????
[7:42] ***RK*** groans with anticipation
[7:42] Zealot Benmergui: well..no one knows EVERYTHING...but often it does fall toa good Dom to help a sub answer those questions..or to make their own judgements based on their actions and responses
[7:42] ***LG***: of course but you must have some experiences to learn
[7:42] Zealot Benmergui: Easy their sailor
[7:42] Zealot Benmergui: *there
[7:43] ***RK***: lol
[7:43] Zealot Benmergui: *nods..I agree completely Miss ***LG***..which is another good reason not to rush into a collar
[7:43] ***ML***: yes
[7:43] Zealot Benmergui: it seems that many D/s coupoes these days are going back to Ozzie and harriet, only a bit more out there
[7:44] ***LG***: yes .........
[7:44] Zealot Benmergui: "No, the crotchless panties do not come off until the leather dog collar goes ON, you pervert
[7:44] ***RV*** laughs
[7:44] ***LG***: or it becomes like a vanilla relationship ..all ewwy goooey
[7:44] ***RK***: lol
[7:44] ***GA*** laughs and then tingles
[7:44] ***EC***: I like goooey
[7:45] ***NB***: if someone wants to have an exclusive or commited relationship, thats not something to mock
[7:45] ***LG***: can I bring yu all my goooey ***EC***
[7:45] ***EC*** sits thinking about ***LG***'s request
[7:45] ***RK***: lol, ***LG***
[7:45] Zealot Benmergui: We will set up a gooey recycling depot
[7:45] ***ML***: no but lets say they want that when the Master gets another sub.. its very difficult to work with a pet that is mono and a Master that is poly
[7:46] ***NB***: if someone doesnt want to offer free samples to every pervert in sl that isnt something to mock either
[7:46] ***LG***: course not ...would not mock anyone
[7:46] Zealot Benmergui: I agree with 13...it is not something to mock...but neither is a collar a first step in a relationship
[7:46] ***LG*** writes down NO MOCKING
[7:46] ***PM***: I would mock anyone, but I'd do it to their face. :)
[7:47] Zealot Benmergui: I certainly don;t feel that a sub should hit the ole furs with every overly developed studpuppy named Grundar they may come across
[7:47] ***LG***: I am going to need more paper
[7:47] Zealot Benmergui: But I do feel that a relationship needs to be discussed and explored before it becomes formalized
[7:48] ***RK***: generally Zealot, I agree, but sometimes, you just "click"
[7:48] Zealot Benmergui: in order to see, first and foremost, if it SHOULD be formalized
[7:48] ***PM***: back to the nurturing comment and throwing in the vail of vanilla ... I think its teh person beneath the Dom/Domme who provides a certain degree of support in a healthy relationship. So .. we all need a bit of Goo to tie all this together
[7:48] ***ML***: oki lets say you have discussed the relationship before its formalized, you give a trial period , then formalize it then the pet changes?
[7:48] ***LG***: do you communicate all this out before you begin or as you go along ?
[7:49] ***RK***: you can never communicate it ALL before you start
[7:49] Zealot Benmergui: nods...we have all had those ***RK***...one minute ou are saying hello the next you are telling them how you never got over watching your puppy being eaten by your big sister when you were 3...
[7:49] ***GA***: That discussion has to be both ways though and is a gradual process of learning, a continual process.
[7:49] ***RK***: the D/s relationship is always a learning process
[7:49] ***GH***: you cant have control over how you feel weeks later
[7:49] ***LG***: yes of course but the fundamentals
[7:50] Zealot Benmergui: someone can always change...it happens in collaring, it happens in marriages...in those cases, either work it out, or end it...
[7:50] ***EC***: I know I grow as my relationship develops
[7:50] ***ML***: of course!
[7:50] ***TN*** nods...yes, any relationship changes over time regardless of the type
[7:51] ***GA***: ***LG***, it is very important to be able to at least talk openly about the fundementals.
[7:51] ***LG***: but if you as a sub tell the Dom all the things you expect need and want doesnt it sort of take the control bit away ......you are telling them how to Dom you ?
[7:51] ***GA***: I've known doms in the past who refuse to give personal details
[7:51] ***GA***: They use the 'Master' card
[7:52] Zealot Benmergui: well..master's tend to each view such things differently...
[7:52] ***TN*** prefers Visa instead of "Master" card
[7:52] ***GA***: By saying that you're not sub if you can't be patient enough to wait until he is ready to give you that info
[7:52] ***GA***: And in my opinion
[7:52] ***GA***: That's a red light
[7:52] ***RV*** agrees
[7:53] Zealot Benmergui: It can be a concern
[7:53] ***GA***: So talk through the details, take time to dicover mutually
[7:53] ***GA***: If you are unsure of your needs, be honest about that too
[7:53] ***GA***: I know I have things I'm not sure about
[7:53] Zealot Benmergui: No, don;t expect his wife's cel phone nymber and his pension plan figures...but a name, some general background..those seem reasonable in a relationship
[7:53] ***TN***: If a Dom uses the 'Master' card on you, I would reconsider the relationship. They have to care about you above all else. If He or She doesn't show that, I'd be a bit apprehensive
[7:53] ***GA***: But I would discuss them slowly when know I can trust the dom
[7:54] Zealot Benmergui: if he insists that you must only relate to him as Lord Thundercock Schickengruber, First Sword of Phut...back away slowly
[7:54] ***TN***: hahaha
[7:54] ***GA***: And doms too, deserve to know the subs feelings. They don't have crystals balls.
[7:54] ***GA***: I hope lol
[7:54] ***LG***: I think I met Thundercock