House of V's College of Kink: August 2008

Tuesday, August 26, 2008

Just what IS D/s - Tuesday

[7:03] Pirate Russell: Please handle private conversations in IM!
[7:05] Pirate Russell: Welcome to House of V's College of Kink!
[7:05] Pirate Russell: My name is Pirate Russell, Head Mistress of the College, and today's instructor.
[7:05] Pirate Russell: I have been in SL for nearly 3 years, a lesbian Domme, the entire time.
[7:05] Pirate Russell: Our topic today: Dominance & Control, A Power Exchange Relationship
[7:06] Pirate Russell: I would like to preface this with My usual, EVERY releationship is as different as those that are in it
[7:06] Pirate Russell: If anyone were to ask what 'Dominance and submission' is, they'd receive almost as many answers as people who practice it.
[7:06] Pirate Russell: Simply stated, though, most would agree that D/s consists of a consensual relationship that is based around a power exchange between two people.
[7:06] Pirate Russell: One person is the controlling one, known as the Dominant; the other person is the controlled one, and is known as the submissive (note that 'Dominant' is usually capitalised and that 'submissive' is not).
[7:07] Pirate Russell: The submissive gives a certain amount of 'power' to the Dominant over their lives. This can be as simple as the Dominant telling them what to wear each day, or can be as complex as them having to ask the Dominant for permission to even leave the room.
[7:07] Pirate Russell: The important thing to note here is that we are talking about consensual relationships. The rights of the submissive are not taken from them, they are given freely during a period of negotiation.
[7:07] Pirate Russell: ~~ Total Power Exchange
[7:07] Pirate Russell: Arguably, the 'pinnacle' of D/s relationships is a Total Power Exchange (TPE) relationship, where the submissive gives up all control to the Dominant.
[7:08] Pirate Russell: Total means just that. The Dominant controls every aspect of their lives from what they wear or eat, to where they go and who they see. There are many that claim to have this, but this Researcher has seen few real examples.
[7:08] Pirate Russell: It should be emphasised that this is only arguably the pinnacle of D/s relationships. The other side of the coin is that every D/s relationship is just as good no matter how much power is exchanged.
[7:08] Pirate Russell: ~~ Some Terms: Before we go too much further, let's define a few terms that exist within the D/s lifestyle:
[7:08] Pirate Russell: * Dominant - The person who has been given some amount of control over the submissive. Other terms describing them are Dom and Domme.
[7:08] Pirate Russell: * submissive - The person who gives some amount of control to the Dominant. Other terms describing them are sub, pet and slave.
[7:09] Pirate Russell: * D/s - Dominance and submission. A power exchange relationship.
[7:09] Pirate Russell: * Lifestyle - Generally those that practice D/s are part of 'the lifestyle'. It doesn't mean anything, it's just a descriptive term.
[7:09] Pirate Russell: * Vanilla - a non-D/s relationship.
[7:09] Pirate Russell: * 24/7 - Living a D/s relationship 24 hours a day, seven days a week. To put it another way, you are always in a power exchange relationship.
[7:09] Pirate Russell: * Scene - The best way to describe this is to think of a 'scene' from a movie. This is one interaction between a Dom and a sub. It doesn't have to be sexual; all that is required is that a power exchange has taken place.
[7:10] Pirate Russell: Those not in a 24/7 relationship tend to have 'scenes' where the power exchange happens. Even those in 24/7 relationships can have scenes, where the exchange becomes deeper.
[7:10] Pirate Russell: * Top - A person who Dominates for only a scene. If you think of it as a 'one night stand' in the D/s lifestyle you wouldn't be quite correct, but it's a good start.
[7:10] Pirate Russell: This doesn't mean that the Top is a 'Dominant', just that the dominate for the one scene.
[7:10] Pirate Russell: * bottom - A person who is submissive for only a scene. This does not mean the person is always a submissive, just that they are submissive for the scene. See 'Top'.
[7:11] Pirate Russell: * Switch - Someone who switches between the Dominant and submissive roles.
[7:11] Pirate Russell: * Safewords - These are words that are used by either Dom or sub to slow down, or stop a scene. Having negotiated a safeword is very important.
[7:11] Pirate Russell: It means that if something is happening that makes either person uncomfortable, they can either back off a little, or stop.
[7:11] Pirate Russell: D/s Isn't about Abuse
[7:11] Pirate Russell: Though the point has already been made it's important to emphasise that this article is about a consensual power exchange.
[7:11] Pirate Russell: Whatever happens to the sub, whatever demands are made of them, they have agreed to this.
[7:12] Pirate Russell: If they haven't, if they never asked for this, or they don't want this, then it's an abusive relationship and is not the kind of relationship covered by this class.
[7:12] Pirate Russell: ~~ Some Myths about D/s Relationships:
[7:12] Pirate Russell: submissives are always Women - - WRONG
[7:12] Pirate Russell: If your image of a submissive is a woman, no matter how she's dressed, think again. There are a great number of male submissives out there.
[7:12] Pirate Russell: submissives are Weak - - WRONG
[7:13] Pirate Russell: If someone has to have someone else run their lives for them they must be weak, right?
[7:13] Pirate Russell: Wrong. Many submissives are quite powerful people outside their D/s relationship: lawyers, managers, business people, police, soldiers and so on.
[7:13] Pirate Russell: For some, being a submissive in the home, or merely in the bedroom, is a way of escaping from the normal pressures of being in charge.
[7:13] Pirate Russell: The submissives I know, are the strongest people I know!
[7:13] Pirate Russell: D/s is all about the *Kinky* Sex - - Wrong
[7:13] Pirate Russell: Sure, D/s couples often have kinky sex. Then again, vanilla couples often do too.
[7:13] Pirate Russell: What defines a D/s relationship has very little to do with the methods used, so much as the power exchange.
[7:14] Pirate Russell: A simple 'no' when a sub asks if they can have a drink can have as much 'power' as getting them to kneel.
[7:14] Pirate Russell: ~~ Entering a D/s Relationship
[7:14] Pirate Russell: When two people are about to enter a D/s relationship, the first step is negotiation. This is a period where no power exchange occurs, but is a discussion where the parameters of the relationship are discussed.
[7:15] Pirate Russell: And should be discussed as "equals" not with the submissive bullied into doing things they don't want to!
[7:15] Pirate Russell: a) How much power will the Dominant have over the submissive?
[7:15] Pirate Russell: b) What hard limits do both have; that is, to what activities are one or both opposed?
[7:15] Pirate Russell: c) What will be the safewords?
[7:16] Pirate Russell: d) What will be the period of the relationship?
[7:16] Pirate Russell: Often after negotiation a contract is drawn up, setting out all of the parameters discussed.
[7:16] Pirate Russell: In this way there can be no misunderstandings.
[7:16] Pirate Russell: ~~ Collars
[7:16] Pirate Russell: In most Western marriages, the symbols of the marriage are the wedding rings worn by the happy couple.
[7:16] Pirate Russell: You can probably think of a collar meaning a similar thing to a wedding ring, although in a D/s relationship it's more common for only the sub to wear a collar to show that they are owned by or bound to a Dom.
[7:16] Pirate Russell: Collars come in all shapes and sizes, from a leather collar that is remarkably similar to that worn by pets, to elegant necklaces that could be worn at the classiest society ball.
[7:17] Pirate Russell: A collar is a symbol and is therefore as individual as the Dominant and submissive within the D/s relationship.
[7:17] Pirate Russell: ~~ Why on Earth Would you Go through all This?
[7:17] Pirate Russell: It seems a D/s relationship is an awful lot of work, doesn't it? Negotiation, contracts, safewords before you even get to the relationship itself.
[7:17] Pirate Russell: Yes, it is a lot of work, but the rewards can be worth it.
[7:18] Pirate Russell: At this point it should be noted that a D/s relationship is not for everyone. Most relationships, even vanilla ones, contain power exchanges.
[7:18] Pirate Russell: In some relationships one partner is always Dominant, in other relationships whoever is Dominant changes almost constantly. That, however, doesn't mean that the whole relationship should become a D/s one.
[7:18] Pirate Russell: Some couples only practice D/s in the bedroom, others in the home, others all the time and some never.
[7:18] Pirate Russell: Like all relationships, good communication is needed to keep a D/s relationship on track. The difference here, is that it is essential to the success of a D/s relationship.
[7:18] Pirate Russell: The basis of a D/s relationship is trust. This is not just the trust that neither partner will cheat, but the sort of deep trust where the partners will trust each other with their lives.
[7:19] Pirate Russell: For the submissive, they need to trust the Dominant with their physical and mental health; to trust that the Dominant will guide and protect them.
[7:19] Pirate Russell: For the Dominant this means trusting that the submissive is totally truthful with them, giving them all the information they need to make good decisions.
[7:19] Pirate Russell: As the communication flows more freely and the trust grows, the entire relationship becomes deeper and more fulfilling. This also applies to a vanilla relationship, but there isn't necessarily the same impetus to keep communication flowing.
[7:19] Pirate Russell: ~~ Traps and Pitfalls
[7:20] Pirate Russell: The submissive gives power to the Dominant. This means the submissive can open themselves to abuse. This risk can be lessened by keeping the following in mind. They're not bad guidelines for vanilla relationships either:
[7:20] Pirate Russell: * Don't trust too easily. Trust is earned. Before giving someone power over you, make sure they can be trusted. Take time to learn about the person.
[7:20] Pirate Russell: * Go slowly. Don't be impatient for it all to happen at once. Take it in small steps.
[7:20] Pirate Russell: * Be honest. Don't say things just to please your partner. If you don't like something, or are unsure, say so. By the same token, if you like it a lot, say so.
[7:21] Pirate Russell: * If there is the smallest hint of abuse, back off. No matter how good your partner is in other areas, if they are abusive, leave. Sometimes we do hurt others by mistake, but if there is obvious abusive behaviour, either mental or physical, then leave
[7:21] Pirate Russell: * Remember that everyone is human, and thus can make mistakes. Don't let a mistake ruin the relationship. Instead, talk about it openly, and try to learn something from it to help the relationship grow.
[7:21] Pirate Russell: Citation: http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A583490
[7:21] Pirate Russell: Comments?
[7:22] ***ZB***: Excellent set of traps, but I would add one thing to it
[7:23] Pirate Russell: Please do!
[7:23] ***ZB***: Don;t be closed...be open and ready to explore things that you may bot have had the desire or nerve to see before. Learn from your partner, and be ready to teach them as well
[7:23] Pirate Russell: Yes, that contract should be renegotiated OFTEN!
[7:23] ***tY***: raises hand
[7:23] Pirate Russell: yes, ***tY***?
[7:24] ***tY***: I have a comment about >>> Pirate Russell: ~~ Total Power Exchange
[7:07] Pirate Russell: Arguably, the 'pinnacle' of D/s relationships is a Total Power Exchange (TPE) relationship, where the submissive gives up all control to the Dominant.
[[7:24] ***tY***: about total power exchange
[7:24] ***tY***: sorry, got the pasting messed up ;)
[7:25] ***tY***: it would seem to me that in a total power exhcnage relationship, one is a slave, not a submissive
[7:25] Pirate Russell: Submissive is the broad term, All slaves, pets, etc are submissives
[7:25] ***ZB*** strangles Miss ***ML***, 's titled and hides it under the ottoman
[7:26] ***IM***, : girl is supprised that power exchange is looked down upon in a D/s relationship but encourged in a vanilla one. The boy is supposed to ask for a da***tY***, decide what movie to see, even order dinner for his da***tY***, so why is a D/s relationship looked down upon so much?
[7:26] ***tY***: a slave is submissive.. but a submissive is not a slave, is the way I see it
[7:26] Pirate Russell: Same here
[7:26] ***tY***: a submissive becomes a slave if there is total power exhcange
[7:26] ***ZB***: Odds are your grandmother did everything a D/s submissive does....except wear leather panties....and I am not sure about the last
[7:27] ***ZB***: It simply doesn;t jibe with what people think is "modern" behavior
[7:27] ***tY***: I just see a difference between being a slave and being a submissive
[7:27] ***tY***: (not sure about my grandma.. giggles)
[7:28] ***ZB***: The term slave is very very subjective Miss ***tY***
[7:28] ***ZB***: some people use it, some don;t, for some, it has many different meanings
[7:28] ***ML***, : has a question.. even tho sub, pet, and slave are basically the same thing.. if more than one in a d/s relationship is there rankings amoungst?
[7:28] ***ZB***: it is definetly a loaded word
[7:28] ***tY***: I don't go with "subjective" when it comes to definitions :)
[7:28] Pirate Russell: So do I, and ALL these terms for one that gives up their power to a Dominant, are used different ways by different people
[7:28] ***TF***: diff is subs have rights ,slaves dont
[7:29] ***tY***: right tesia.. a sub has rights regardless.. slave has rights ONLY if they are afforded to her/him by their owner
[7:29] ***TF***: Yes Ma'am
[7:30] ***ZB***: maybe, maybe not..depends how it is used by THAT Master..i would say a girl Always has rights no mater what she is called
[7:30] ***tY***: I suppose I see a marked difference as I am a submissive here as ***tY***, and a slave in my other AV
[7:30] ***ZB***: for me, a Slave is a collared submissive
[7:30] ***XD***: i met someone in HoV demanding i be his slave.. and I am very nervous about it..
[7:30] ***IM***, : Slave *usually* has the connotation of being state supported as well, submissive is personal, slave is legal.
[7:30] ***ZB***: If the DEMANDED it Miss ***XD***, the answer is NO, or Let's get to know each other first
[7:30] ***tY***: and I see a great difference between being a submissve here as te and being a slave in my other av
[7:31] ***XD***: i keep telling him i need to get to know him.. many times i told him this
[7:31] ***ZB***: If he is not listening, then steer clear of him Miss ***XD***
[7:31] ***XD***: ok**!
[7:33] ***tY***: a slave has no rights.. a submissive always has them
[7:33] ***ZB***: If that is your definition Miss ***tY***, and it clarifies things for you, then you are absolutely right
[7:33] Pirate Russell: As far as I am concerned a slave, sub, pet, girl, whatever has whatever rights their Dominant grants.
[7:34] Pirate Russell: But ALL submissives have the right to enjoy what they do here!
[7:34] ***tY***: yes, a sub has the right to enjoyment, I agree.. a slave may not .. giggles
[7:34] Pirate Russell: If not, Safeword, Communica***tY***, move on, if applicable
[7:35] ***IM***, : Many of these words have not exact official defnintion in the D/s world. It's very important to agree on the definitions before entering a relationship.
[7:35] ***tY***: anyway, I won't harp on it, says she who just has, but I see a distinct difference as I have been both
[7:35] ***ZB***: Absolutely Miss ***IM***
[7:35] ***tY***: yes ibrew, I agree, that is crucial
[7:36] Pirate Russell: Which is that negotiation phase
[7:36] ***IM***, nods
[7:36] ***BH***: girl is reminded that every discussion of D/s repationships online seems to get bogged down in semantics
[7:36] ***ZB***: Very important, so know one comes around later and misunderstood something, or expected something else
[7:36] Pirate Russell: For instance, if the participants are African American, I imagine the word "Slave" is prolly not gonna be used, no matter how much power is exchanged
[7:37] ***ZB***: nod..as i said, it is a loaded word for many people
[7:37] ***tY***: yes, the word 'slave" under some circumstances might be avoided
[7:37] ***ZB***: I know some people who use Pet instead
[7:37] Pirate Russell: So sub might mean total power excahnge
[7:37] ***ZB***: and one Master years ago, who rather then a title, called his three girls Moe larry and Curly
[7:37] ***ML***, giggles
[7:37] ***XD***: lol
[7:38] ***BH*** giggles
[7:38] ***TF***: i got cats by those names
[7:38] ***TF***: laughs
[7:38] ***ZB***: I imagine watching them scene would have been...interesting
[7:38] ***ZB***: lots of hot nyucking
[7:38] ***IM***, giggles
[7:38] Pirate Russell: I endeavor to treat My pets as just that pets, companions that I care for (in boths senses of the word), and enjoy the unconditional love of
[7:38] ***ML***, tries to contain her composure from ***ZB***s joke
[7:38] ***TF***: grins
[7:39] ***BH***: the definition girl adheres to most often is that "sub" is someone who controls a scene, much as a director controls it..."slave" doesn't
[7:39] ***tY***: I think there were some great points about abuse
[7:39] ***ZB***: That is an interesting view..and i agree completely
[7:39] ***ZB***: the sub has the real power
[7:40] ***tY***: of course, a Master is only a Master if she allows him to be
[7:40] Pirate Russell: But if I take all bat's rights away and tell her she will be called "sub" then she no longer controls the scene
[7:40] ***ZB***: but she must surrender the control
[7:40] ***BH*** grins
[7:40] ***IM***, : or even if she is called mistress. it's just a word.
[7:40] Pirate Russell: Yes, but she's just "sub"
[7:40] ***ZB***: if she is willing to accept the concequences, she can say Nuts and log off
[7:41] Pirate Russell: Hell, I'll call her "bus" or club, what I'm saying is there are n set definitions
[7:41] ***BH***: girl would be called "sub" at Miss's command, but she would remain slave in reality
[7:41] Pirate Russell: er no set ....
[7:41] ***tY***: to me to be in a slave?Master relationhsip requires a higher level of trust
[7:41] Pirate Russell: In all My readings Dominant and submissive are the general terms for the participants, along wtth switch
[7:42] Pirate Russell: My, and batla's, point is that you see that as slave, W/we might see that as pet, the WORD isn't important, negotiating the Power Exchange is
[7:43] ***tY***: hardest thing I have ever done in SL, was to be a slave.. to give away al of one's power to another
[7:43] Pirate Russell: ok
[7:43] Pirate Russell: Let's move on to the abuse question please
[7:43] ***BH***: in girl's dealings in RL....Dom/Dommes are sometimes looked down on as part-timers...but then there's a lot of snobbery, all based around labels
[7:43] ***tY***: oh yes, sorry.. let me find what was said
[7:44] Pirate Russell: [7:39] ***tY***: I think there were some great points about abuse
[7:44] ***tY***: [7:21] Pirate Russell: * If there is the smallest hint of abuse, back off. No matter how good your partner is in other areas, if they are abusive, leave. Sometimes we do hurt others by mistake, but if there is obvious abusive behaviour, either mental or physical, then leave
[7:44] ***tY***: I wish more girls I know had taken heed of that..
[7:44] ***IM***, nods
[7:44] ***tY***: basically, if it isn't making you feel good as a sub.. move on
[7:45] Pirate Russell: Some dominants (Small "d" intentional) will use some of the good stuff to draw submissives in so they CAN abuse them!
[7:45] ***ZB***: not as a sub...if it isn;t making you feel good as a person, or woman, or man, or cockewr spaniel..whatever..if it doesn;t feel good, go elsewhere
[7:45] ***tY***: the difficult thing for some subs are when they are masochistic, as they can find it hard to know when they are being abused and when they are not
[7:46] Steel Shackle (RW) 1.13 whispers: Kiri gathers what's left of her energy to fight her Steel Shackle (RW) 1.13 some more...
[7:46] ***ZB***: *smiles at Miss ***tY***..."The age old question..How do you punish a pain slut? Chcola***tY***? Foot rubs?
[7:46] ***tY***: well, I made the differentiation because it is not always the right of a slave, in my mind, to feel good.. but it is the right of a submissive
[7:47] Pirate Russell: A Masochist walks up to a Sadist and says, "Hurt me." The Sadist says, "Ok", and walks away
[7:47] ***tY***: giggles
[7:47] ***TF***: i think its easier to see abuse when it happens to someone else then when it happend to the one beeing abused.Thats what makes it hard to get out sometimes. Abuse is in the mindset as well
[7:47] ***tY***: yes, I think so too tesia
[7:47] Pirate Russell: Abuse is a mind-set above and beyond physical!
[7:48] ***BH***: the essential thing is to communicate with the Dom/me....even if a sub may not speak, theres ALWAYS ways. a sub can then determine by the Dom/me's reaction...whether it's abusive or not. basically, any Dom/me wotrth their salt will at least respond to a subbie in distress, whether to comfort them, or back off
[7:48] ***tY***: my rule of thumb is.. if it is making me unhappy.. talk about it.. if it can't be fixed.. then moving on is the solution
[7:48] ***ZB***: Very wise Miss ***tY***
[7:48] Pirate Russell: Perfectly said, ***tY***!
[7:49] ***tY***: and I am not masochistic, but I have g/fs who are.. I say to them, yes, I know you are masochistic.. but is what he is doing making you happy?
[7:49] ***ZB***: For sdome, abuse can depoend on understanding...If a sub understands why she is being spanked, it's punishment,,,,if she has no idea, it is abuse
[7:49] ***tY***: and if it is not, then..perhaps it is abuse
[7:49] Pirate Russell: Unless it IS making her happy, even if she can't identify why
[7:50] ***tY***: if you are masochistic, it is supposed to feel good, if it isn't feeling good.. think about it
[7:50] Pirate Russell: it's supposed ot feel good BECAUSE it doens't feel good!
[7:50] ***tY***: yes Sir ***ZB***
[7:51] ***tY***: giggles, yes Miss Pirate
[7:51] ***BH***: understanding is important. even for masochists, it's better if there's a reason you're being racked
[7:51] ***ZB***: Even if it is "It's Tuesday"
[7:51] ***XD***: i am copy and pasting much of this lecture.. so i can have for future reference.. i am learning so much
[7:51] ***tY***: and racking a masochist as punishment/.. giggles
[7:51] ***BH***: best way to punish a masochist....treat 'em nice
[7:51] Pirate Russell: From thefreedictionary.com 2. The deriving of pleasure, or the tendency to derive pleasure, from being humiliated or mistreated, either by another or by oneself.
[7:52] Pirate Russell: isn't mistreatment abuse?
[7:52] ***tY***: right, if it isn't giving you pleasure.. time to have a chat with the DOm or Domme
[7:52] Pirate Russell: See, we can get caught up here in semantics, as well! LOL
[7:53] ***tY***: well, one could argue that humiliation is abuse, but it isn't, if the person being humiliated wants it
[7:53] Pirate Russell: And masochists are a small part of the 'submissive' group.
[7:53] Pirate Russell: For most of y'all, if it hurts, or if it's no fun, it's abuse. There IS a difference between "hurt" and "Injure"
[7:54] Pirate Russell: but I mean "Hurt" as way down inside, the "this is NOT fun" kind
[7:54] ***ZB***: nods
[7:55] ***tY***: for example, is it humiliation if I am dragged through a sim naked on a collar?.. some say so.. but it is only abuse if it is done without my consent
[7:55] ***ZB***: that moment when safewords go out the window, replaced by Get AWAY from me Mother fucker!
[7:55] Pirate Russell pulls te
[7:55] ***tY***: lol Sir ***ZB***
[7:55] ***IM***, giggles
[7:55] ***XD***: lol
[7:55] Pirate Russell: ***tY***'s shoulder straps down
[7:56] Pirate Russell: LOL
[7:56] ***tY***: giggles at Miss Pirate
[7:56] ***ZB***: I know LOTS of women who get very turned on by public nudity, or control
[7:56] ***ZB***: not abuse unless the girl doesn;t wish it
[7:56] ***tY***: right, I agree
[7:56] Pirate Russell raises Her hand! I like to do it to girls, and like to be .... *accidentally* seen in RL
[7:56] ***tY***: giggles
[7:56] ***IM***, : How much abuse happens in the opposite direction? Sub abusing Dom?
[7:56] ***BH*** grins
[7:57] ***tY***: good question, lbrew
[7:57] ***ZB*** has a momentary memory of a ladies room in a mall...then refocusses
[7:57] Pirate Russell: THAT WAS YOU!?!?
[7:57] ***IM***, laughs
[7:57] ***ZB***: god I hope not
[7:57] ***tY***: if the sub can top him and he is unaware.. then she may be able to abuse him
[7:58] Pirate Russell enjoys doing things like this
[7:58] Pirate Russell: imremove shirt
[7:58] ***IM***, : meep!
[7:58] ***tY***: giggles
[7:58] ***ZB***: And who wouldn't?
[7:58] ***BH*** giggles and checks her corset laces
[7:59] ***ZB***: can a sub abuse a Dom? certainly
[7:59] ***ZB***: if she does things simply to upset him, or wind his chain? Happens a lot
[7:59] Pirate Russell: Topping for the bottom
[7:59] ***IM***, nods
[7:59] ***tY***: and some girls like to push the boundaries, I know I do
[8:00] ***tY***: like to see if he is paying attention, giggles
[8:00] Pirate Russell: Pushing boundries is one thing, and something I enjoy on occaison, but sighing with each command, until I give the one you want
[8:00] ***ZB***: sometimes it takes a concious effort to go into Dom Space...and let all the games fall away
[8:01] Pirate Russell: YES, ***ZB***!! Much is said about 'sub Space'. We do get into "Dom Space" too!
[8:01] ***tY***: oh, if a girl is hestiant about all requests, that would just be a waste of time..
[8:02] Pirate Russell: ***tY***, what is this "request", of which girl speaks?
[8:02] Pirate Russell: He he
[8:02] ***tY***: smile, it is a request, in some way.. as I am submissive, I have the right to say no ;)
[8:03] ***ZB***: well, that walks into the best way to torment a sub..."Whatever you wish..."
[8:03] ***BH*** shudders
[8:03] Pirate Russell: Well, on that note I'm gonna wind it up.... The transcripts for all classes before this, including ***ZB***'s Monday Class (Next one at 6am, next Monday) are at http://collegeofkink.blogspot.com

Monday, August 25, 2008

D/s and the single submissive

Zealot Benmergui: Welcome A/all to the House of V’s College of Kink. My name is Zealot Benmergui, Baron BardHaven and I will be your host today. The topic for today is Flying Solo, Sex and the Single Dom/sub and we will be looking a little bit at the D/s lifestyle as it affects the single person as opposed to couples or groups, while also discussing how a submissive can grow and advance without a Dominant to call their own. Next week, we will look a little more specifically at life as a single Dominant, however, the experiences of single subs is quite relevant to Doms as well. Please note that for the purpose of clarity, I will tend to use “she” to refer to a submissive, but a submissive can be of any gender.
***ML***: hello tiff
Zealot Benmergui: damn but I must type fast...
***ML***: watches the smoke plum from sirs fingers as he types
Zealot Benmergui: First of all, consider some of the stereotypes we are used to hearing from the mainstream world. Such nonsense can be heard from family and friends, seen on network television (CSI…shudder), condoned by Dr. Phil and his popsychsucking ilk. For example…”D/s is domestic abuse in silly clothing” or “D/s is practiced by women with no self esteem and overweight, middle aged accountants in leather hoods who like saying “Suck it, bitch”.
Zealot Benmergui: We have all heard all of that and worse..and it can really confuse of upset anyone who is curious about D/s, but doesn't really know much about it. It is that kind of confusion that people like us need to combat.
Zealot Benmergui: People who make such statements are usually easy to refute, or at least to shut up with a good flogging. More difficult are some of the misconceptions that one can hear within the lifestyle itself. Things like “You aren’t really a sub unless you are part of a D/s relationship.” Statements like this are a little harder to push away as being uninformed or idiotic, but can do just as much damage. Therefore, let’s take a look at such concepts for a little while, and what lays behind them.
Zealot Benmergui: First and foremost we need to consider exactly what I mean when I refer to a single sub. The term may not be universal.
Zealot Benmergui: So what IS a Single sub? Is such a thing possible? Isn’t a sub defined by submission to her Dominant? Certainly the role of a Dom is important in the life of a submissive, is it essential? No, certainly not. Submission, like any profound life choice, begins within yourself. To say that a Dominant is essential to being submissive is like saying if you die a virgin, you aren’t REALLY heterosexual you just like to call yourself one at ACT UP rallies…or to mix a less sexual but equally objectionable metaphor, if you never cut yourself, you aren’t REALLY a hemophiliac, just some kind of…a hemoposeur or something.
***TN*** nods
Zealot Benmergui: A lot of damage can be done by assumptions, and partial information.
Zealot Benmergui: In order to understand a little more about the challenges that may facea single submissive, we first need to put to bed the idea that submission is always a sexual attitude (pun intended). It is true that often submission is expressed sexually, but it is certainly not the only way for it to find its voice. Submission, like Domination, is a lifestyle choice that may be second nature to a person, but such lifestyles must still be chosen and nurtured. While a Dominant or a teacher of some kind may help in that process, the real heavy lifting must be done in the soul and psyche of the individual.
Zealot Benmergui: As anyone who is experienced in the lifestyle knows, submission can be expressed by the way she pours coffee, or enters a room full of strangers, just as effectively as it can in the bedroom or the club.
Pirate Russell: MORE SO!
Zealot Benmergui: All of this comes from her awareness of herself, and her comfort with and understanding of who she is.
Zealot Benmergui: In fact, some people may mistake her for being dominant in that situation...because what they are seeing is confidence., Coinfidence in who she is and what she wants inher life.
***TN***: How does that relate to a submissive in SL for example that says she only shows her submissiveness in a private setting or isn't submissive to everyone she meets?
Zealot Benmergui: That is the true goal of any self-discovery, and one that I know many people have found through accepting their submissive natures...with out any need for a dominant to be attached to. They may wish one, one may be helpful, one may complete them...but to quote St. Exupery..what is essential is invisable to the eye.
***TN***: I see this all the time in people's profiles and such.
Zealot Benmergui: nods...a very good question
Zealot Benmergui: submission can be shown through kneeling, true,,,but in many cases, it is an attitude, and openess, a level of respect for others and herself
Zealot Benmergui: In non-lifestyle environments, you will often find that submissive are in roles of peacemakers, or facilitators...due to the fact they seem to get along with everyone
***TN*** nods
***TN***: yes, that makes sense Sir
Zealot Benmergui: *smiles to Miss ***TN***
Zealot Benmergui: So do I mean by all this, just as the profiles of more intelligent Dominants will say that a good Dominant must first dominate or control himself, a submissive must first submit to themselves? Exactly. Consider another way to say submit. Accept. First and foremost, a submissive must accept their nature, must embrace the fact that they prefer to be submissive in some areas of their lives. That is not always an easy thing for a person to accept in our modern world. These days, we are all expected to be ambitious go-getters, the coffee generation. To say you would prefer to put control in the hands of another is a sort of sacrilege.
Zealot Benmergui: Women have come a long way in our society, but in some ways, that progress has restricted their roles, not just expanded them.
Zealot Benmergui: And that goes double or triple for submissive men.
***WR*** nods
***TN*** nods, Yes. Feminism makes it very hard for us.
Zealot Benmergui: Men are even more confined by the masculine persona...we may be more sensitive then our counterparts 50 years ago, but submission is still not an option in male society
Zealot Benmergui: I would consider myself, and have delcared myself a feminist, Miss ***TN***...but for me, that means a woman can CHOOSE how she wises to live herlife
Zealot Benmergui: I don;t feel anyone has a right to declare she should be barefoot and pregnant, nor that she must be a CEO or a truck driver.
***TN***: I would have to agree but most people in society I think puts us at one end of the spectrum or the other. There is s alot of criticism in our decisions.
Zealot Benmergui: Someone, being submissive fell through the cracks of women's rights for some people
Zealot Benmergui: I agree completely Miss ***TN***
Zealot Benmergui: To a great degree, all of this is a fallacy of the modern world that our ancestors were much wiser about. While there were certainly powerful women in previous generation, odds are that for those of us who are properly aged, our mothers were submissive and never thought to state it…and certainly most of our grandmothers were. In previous generations, submission was an accepted part of marriage, relationships, indeed of everyday life. Consider a well known poem that can still be found inscribed on collector’s plates and decoupage collages…God grant me the serenity to ACCEPT the things I cannot change. Of course in this poem the author was referring to Jesus, not their Dom, but the concept is much the same. Now I bet a few of you pull a John Lennon on me, and tell Miss Vv I said Jesus was a middle aged accountant in a leather hood saying Suck it, bitch…”
sexy Andree is Online
***TN*** laughs
***ML*** giggles
Zealot Benmergui: So how does one come to accept one’s submissive nature in the modern world? Well, for some it can be done through self-critique and examination, others research the topic and read all they can, others watch and observe other people. There are as many paths to submission as there are submissives, so for the purpose of this class we can assume that the submissive knows her nature, or at least thinks that she does, and is ready to see how it will change her world. Well, SL is a wonderful place for that, as it is for any kind of self-exploration or experimentation.
Pirate Russell: That's why the older marriage ceremonies say "Man and wife", not "Husband and Wife"
Zealot Benmergui: *nods..exactly
Wieseltje Wise is Online
Zealot Benmergui: So should a new submissive, following popular wisdom, accept the commands of the first leather clad, mullet haired troglodyte that says “Hey, u do what i tel you cause I a dominant, yokay?”? Perhaps she should cover herself in beef gravy and put up a tag that says “Nube subbie…Come getz it boyz”? In a word…no (bet you didn’t see that one coming). What can she do, as a lone submissive, to make the most of her time?
Zealot Benmergui: Now, any recommendations I can make lack the key fact tha..well...I have never been a lone submissive.
Zealot Benmergui: But from my observations, these are what seem right to me...but I will hope for some aid from the class afterwards.
Zealot Benmergui: First and foremost, she needs to bide her time and do nothing rashly. There is no rush, despite what she, or a possible master, may thing. Secondly. she needs to observe, everyone and everything. The best way to learn is by example. She should choose one or two other submissives that she respects or admires, and try to emulate them when she can. She should ask them if they would mind her asking them questions…odds are they will be flattered. She should also observe any Dominants that she thinks seem worthy and how they respond to submissives, so she can get a good idea of what she likes and doesn’t like in a Dominant, and what expectations are reasonable.
***TN***: And further her knowledge in D/s discussion at House of V *wink*
Zealot Benmergui: In my opinion, she should also take the opportunity to explore. Play. Try new things, things she has never done before, things which she may have assumed she would not like. The more she learns now, the happier she will be when/if she does meet a Dominant she wishes to devote herself to. Knowledge is power, whether you are submissive or Dominant.
Zealot Benmergui: *grins...that goes without saying, Miss ***TN***
***TN***: But of course Sir
Zealot Benmergui: So is a person a true submissive without a Dominant, in my opinion they certainly are, as long as they are on their own journey of discovery. Their nature and their destiny, whatever that may be, is defined by themselves alone, and not anyone else…until they choose to include someone else in that journey. I now open this to the floor, subs and Doms alike…since this is where all of you can teach far better then I. What ideas and suggestions do you all have, from your experience, for the single submissive.
Zealot Benmergui: Feel free to hurl things
Pirate Russell: I so totally agree with PATIENCE!
***TN***: I think it's important to immerse yourself with other subs, whether they are in a relationship or not. It helps, like you said, to have someone else to talk to and ask questions.
Zealot Benmergui: *nods...a rush to collaring is always a key problem for new submissive, or Dominants for that matter
Pirate Russell: I have a frind, she comest to My classes, who jumped in the wrong releationship. She's out now and in a WONDERFUL one!
***TN***: I have to agree completely Miss Russell...I actually just recently put something in my profile about patience.
Francie Pasternak is Online
Pirate Russell: I ended up collaring her Myself, and told her that she coudlnt' go to another, unless I approved! LOL
Zealot Benmergui: I have found that just about every sub I know starts out with one bad relationship...almost no one hits a good one, first off
Francie Pasternak is Offline
***JN***: How do you play casually as a submissive, yet not submit enough that...its too much?
Amelie Peng is Offline
Pirate Russell: C'mere, ***JN***, I'll show ya!
Pirate Russell: He he
***GH***: *GIGGLES* :)~~~~
Zealot Benmergui: Basically, she needs to make clear to the Dom, and herself, this is a one off
Pirate Russell: Yes, when you talk limits, talk length, too!
Zealot Benmergui: two points on that...first one is regarding what Pirate said...Doms acting as protectors for new subs is a wonderful thing, and can be very very helpful
Zealot Benmergui: secondly, the new program of house slaves here at V, also a good way to gain experience, without hopefully gaining a stalker
***TN*** laughs
***TN***: Welcome back Mercy :)
Zealot Benmergui: also, come to Member's Day, flirt it up, get a few different Doms to claim you...enjoy the 30 mkinutes, learn from them.
***ML***: ty tiff mmuah
Pirate Russell: Also Stonehaven and Bondage Rance trips with your keys in your cuffs is a pretty good sign you wanna play
Zealot Benmergui: Welcome back dear
***TN*** 'muahs' back
Zealot Benmergui: nods...there are lots of ways to play...and if you are worried, treat it like real life
Pirate Russell: And Bondage RancH trips
***TN*** isn't that brave to wander around with keys in her cuffs, lol
Zealot Benmergui: tell a friend where you are going to play...and if you need to have a Master you can call on for a rescue
Zealot Benmergui: few idiots will hang around to grief you if a master or Mistress barges in going "You SLUT, who is this MAN????"
Pirate Russell: Consider it like 'dating' D/s style. You'd not marry the first man you see after one night!
***GH***: myself im not that comfy going around playing with Doms i dont know,,,
Zealot Benmergui: nods..understandable
Pirate Russell: likes that in gracie ;-)
Zealot Benmergui: as you met Doms you like, and trust..don;t be shy to ask if they would Dom you for a session, even non-sexually...
Zealot Benmergui: just set the rules in advance
Pirate Russell: ESPECIALLY non sexually, that will weed out the 'pigs'
***TN*** nods
Zealot Benmergui: and make clear you are learning, and this is not a clever way to beg a collar
***GH***: as a sub how can i go to a dom and set rules,,i mean,,,eeeeek
Zealot Benmergui: Miss ***GH***, the sorts of Doms you want, are not assholes
***TN***: That's a good point Pirate....most seem to think D/s is entirely sexual
Pirate Russell: Yes, grace, ultimately it's your body, SL or RL!
Zealot Benmergui: talk to them as people..tell them what you are looking for
***GH*** nods
Zealot Benmergui: most will aprrtiate your honesty
Pirate Russell: gracie, have I told you the dirty little Online D/s Secret?
***GH***: yes Miss,girl believes you did
Pirate Russell: subbys have ALL the power, you can say, "#$^% YOU!", take off the collar, mute them, and go on!
***TN*** laughs
***TN***: It's true
Pirate Russell: Not one intercoursing thing I can do about it!
Zealot Benmergui: nods...nothing looks sadder then a master standing in the club whining about the sub who dumped him
***GH***: *GIGGLES* :)~~~~
Pirate Russell: And it happens 3 nights a week at HoV!
***GH***: haha
Zealot Benmergui: and they ALWAYS assume they will get sympathy for it
Zealot Benmergui: usually all that happens is the sub in questions gets a few dozen "Hey girl..." IMs
***ML*** giggles
Pirate Russell: Mostly from the "Good" Dominants
Zealot Benmergui: nods...a good dominant looks for a girl with spirit, with a sense of what she wants, and needs
Zealot Benmergui: in short, they are looking for submissive WOMEN
Zealot Benmergui: we jusr say girl because calling her Woman makes us sound like Animal
Pirate Russell: There is one other thing subbys NEED to know anud understand! SL is here for FUN, how you get your fun is different than My fun! But you are allowed to enjoy ANYthing you do!
Zealot Benmergui: absolutely...I have had many news subs come to me telling me how miserable their master is making them...
Pirate Russell: There are pain-whores, and cuddle-sluts, and EVERYthing in between!
Zealot Benmergui: often because they aren;t making themselves clear to him, and he doesn;t know any better
***ML*** giggles at Miss Pirate..
Pirate Russell: If you dont' want to log on, or you're afraid your Dominant is already on, something has gone WAY wrong
***GH*** nods
Zealot Benmergui: most common wrong statement from a new sub is "But he's my Dom...he MUST know what it should be like..."
***TN*** nods
Pirate Russell: uh oh, My *WORD* is coming, ***ML***, you know what I'm gonna say!
Zealot Benmergui: there is nothing wrong with a submissive staying single...
***ML***: OoOo communication!
Pirate Russell: That's My girl!
Zealot Benmergui: look around the club, on any given day...half of the regular s who are subs, are single..and enjoying themselves
Zealot Benmergui: same is true for the Doms, which I will discuss later...size doesn;t matter, not of penis, and not of slave chain
Zealot Benmergui: later being next week
***GH***: omy
***TN***: I suppose that's with any type of lifestyle. If you are single but seeking a vanilla relationship, it's best to not sulk around the house all depressed over it.
Zealot Benmergui: exactly
***TN***: You aren't going to get anywhere being a single hermit submissive :P
Zealot Benmergui: well, youmight get a lot of reading done
Brenna Lynagh is Offline
Zealot Benmergui: and become very close friends with your dolphin
***TN*** laughs
***GH***: haha
***GH***: howd you know it was a dolphin,lmao
Pirate Russell: Or play a lot of SL!
Pirate Russell: I told him, gracie
***GH***: oh
Pirate Russell: LOL
***GH*** blushes
Zealot Benmergui: *smiles at Miss ***GH***...I read alot?
***ML*** usually my IM's .. giggles
***ML***: jk ;)
***GH*** hides her face
Zealot Benmergui: well, that is the close of the formal class, per se, but we can continue the discussion as long as desire or interest holds...
Zealot Benmergui: thank you for coming, I hope it was helpful..and as I said, next week we will discuss being a new Dom, and the challanges that invovles
***TN***: Thank you Sir for the lecture. This is my first. I'm going to be coming along with ***ML*** :)
***ML***: can't wait for that discussion
***GH***: Thank you Sir Zealot,awesome class

Jealousy - Thursday

Thursday, August 21, 2008

Jealosy - Tuesday

2008/08/19 7:04
Pirate Russell: Welcome to House of V's College of Kink, My name is Pirate Russell, Head Mistress of the College, and today's instructor.
Pirate Russell: I have been in SL for nearly 3 years, a lesbian Domme, the entire time.
Pirate Russell: DISCLAIMER: I have no training or schooling in Psychology, Psichiatry, or Counseling of ANY kind! All of My observations are from My real life and what I've found on the web
Pirate Russell: If you are having problems dealing with Jealousy, PLEASE PLEASE contact a competent professional!
Pirate Russell:
Pirate Russell: Jealousy typically refers to the thoughts, feelings, and behaviors that occur when a person believes a valued relationship is being threatened by a rival.
Pirate Russell: EEP, I missed a line, today's topic is Jealousy!
Pirate Russell: Dr. Jennifer James, author of "Women and the Blues: Passions That Hurt, Passions That Heal", wrote:
Pirate Russell: "Jealousy is simply and clearly the fear that you do not have value. Jealousy scans for evidence to prove the point - that others will be preferred and rewarded more than you.
Pirate Russell: There is only one alternative - self-value. If you cannot love yourself, you will not believe that you are loved. You will always think it's a mistake or luck.
Pirate Russell: Take your eyes off others and turn the scanner within. Find the seeds of your jealousy, clear the old voices and experiences."
Pirate Russell: Jealousy is an emotion that can be very damaging to ANY relationship. It can also prevent you from growing emotionally.
Pirate Russell: It is not the same thing as envy. Jealousy wants what someone else has. Envy is when you don't want someone else to have what you don't have.
Pirate Russell: If a person is jealous, they already have what is desired but they are afraid of losing it.
Pirate Russell: When you are feeling jealous, you are undergoing an emotional combination of anger, dependency, hurt, and self doubt. When you spend time focusing on what you are not, this is a result of insecurity.
Pirate Russell: Sometimes when we are afraid of losing something, we actually cause it to happen because of our actions and behaviors.
Pirate Russell: All our thoughts and actions are centered around our fears and insecurities. This causes more fear and insecurity. These feelings cause other harmful feelings and may result in us indulging in self pity.
Pirate Russell: What are some ways of dealing with jealousy?
Pirate Russell: * Develop independence. We need to be sure we are not overly dependant on any one person. We need to focus on the good things we have and not on what we don't have.
Pirate Russell: * Focus on developing more confidence and attractiveness. Sometimes something simple like getting our hair done or changing our style of clothing can help.
Pirate Russell: Taking a course on self esteem or assertiveness is also beneficial.
Pirate Russell: * Be honest with yourself. Sit down with paper and list things that are making you jealous. Look at it objectively. Are these things silly or trivial or are they really important?
Pirate Russell: * Communicate with the person who is the object of your jealousy. Tell them your feelings. Is that person doing something that is causing you to be jealous? Letting them know can often help the problem.
***NZ***: hopes there will be a Note Card following class
Pirate Russell: Note here that some people use jealousy to control others
***KJ*** does also
Pirate Russell: If this other person cares for you, they will work on changing the behavior that is adding to your jealousy. Being aware of your feelings can also help you cope better.
Pirate Russell: Realize that jealousy shows your lack of self esteem and uncertainty of your own worth. Work on taking a really good self evaluation.
Pirate Russell: This experience can be a wonderful learning opportunity for you. Work on communication with other people. Work on developing confidence.
Pirate Russell: * Study your rival. Look closely at the person you are jealous about. What do you like and dislike about the person? Are his or her qualities beyond your abilities?
Pirate Russell: Be sure you are not being unrealistic about that person. Are you seeing things as they really are?
Pirate Russell: Take control of your feelings. Terminate the relationship if nothing else seems to work. Take the time to concentrate on your own growth. Work at trying to understand and improve your relationship.
Pirate Russell: * Do not overreact. Remember, most incidents are temporary so don't magnify what happened.
Pirate Russell: Serious jealousy stems from a fear of loss, reputation, control of ourselves, our spouses, or relationships. Losing control of our emotions and feelings will only make things worse.
Pirate Russell: Bad reactions to Jealousy can even cause legal problems. I spent almoust 7 years as a Public Safety Telecommunications Officer (Big words for 911 Dispatcher).
Pirate Russell: Not one shift went by where I didn't deal with a seriuos domestic problem. Most, I'd wager, stemmed from jealousy. How many of us have read this in or local or national news media, "If I can't have him/her, then nobody can!"
Pirate Russell: I know that many people are arrested shortly after saying that to an officer!
Pirate Russell: I, for one, don't want to be someplace I'm not wanted. That's not fun for Me!
Pirate Russell: Likewise, I dont' force anyone, particularly My submissives to be with Me if they're not having fun.
Pirate Russell: This is part of My Primary rule, that real life comes first, if you're not having fun, let's go do something that is, together or apart!
Pirate Russell: I do get jealous sometimes. My girls have significant others with whom they spend time. I INSIST that they do! One has a boyfriend, one a girl friend, and another a girl of her own.
Pirate Russell: I miss them when they're not around, I am envious of the time they spend away, but I want them to have fun.
Pirate Russell: Knowing they're having fun makes it all ok for Me. I want My girls, My friends, My acquaintences, and even most of My enemies to have fun.
Pirate Russell: By having other friends, they've places to go have fun when I'm alone with one of the other girls. Even when I'm alone with one, I envy the time that the others spend away.
Pirate Russell: I'm going to close today with one of My very favorite quotes on the subject, by Robert A Heinlein,
Pirate Russell: "Love" is that condition in which the happiness of another person is essential to your own... Jealousy is a disease, love is a healthy condition.
Pirate Russell: The immature mind often mistakes one for the other, or assumes that the greater the love, the greater the jealousy."
Pirate Russell:
Pirate Russell: Citations:
Pirate Russell: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jealousy
Pirate Russell: http://www.allaboutlifechallenges.org/dealing-with-jealousy-faq.htm
Pirate Russell: http://www.todays-woman.net/quoteid-2304.html
Pirate Russell: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/r/robert_a_heinlein.html
Pirate Russell: Transcripts posted at http://collegeofkink.blogspot.com
Pirate Russell: That is in lieu of the notecards. you can also edit your chat logs, if you dont' want to go to the blog, and copy and paste into a notecard
Pirate Russell: Questions???? Comments?
***tY***: raises hand
Pirate Russell: yes, ***tY***?
***tY*** I was reading back and noticed you mentioned something about how to deal with jealousy
Pirate Russell: yes?
***tY*** and one of the things mentioned was self esteem or self assertiveness classes
Pirate Russell: Self Esteem classes, yes
***tY*** and I was wondering really how applicable they would be to a slave or a submissive?
Pirate Russell: I think more applicable than to a Dominant!
***tY*** yes, smile, I think so too
Pirate Russell: It takes great strenth and self worth to give the ultimate gift, yourself, to another person!
Pirate Russell: Just because you're a submissive, that doesn't mean you don't love yourself, respect yourself!
***tY*** I agree, but sometimes knowing what is in your best interests and being able to act upon it, IS difficult for a slave or a submissive
Pirate Russell: Yes that can be true
***IM***: if one doesn't value oneself, the gift is worthless.
Pirate Russell: I value and respect all submissives. I admire the girls, and boys, that have what it takes to truly give themselves to another person
***tY*** I wonder if there is a fuzzy line between valueing yourself and being a submissive
Pirate Russell: I don't see a line at all, but then I'm not living in a submissive's skin. As ibrew said, if you dont' value yourself, the gift of your submission is lessened
***tY*** perhaps some of the submissives in here understand what I am trying to say
***CJ***: yes, i do, ***tY***
***tY*** smiles at her sis
***tY*** the desire to please can get in the way of actually looking after your own best interests
***tY*** I think that is what I was trying to say
Pirate Russell: Ok, I see now
***IM***: this girl values herself very highly, and giving herself is not done to reduce her worth, but to increase it. girl is freed up to concentrate on other things by giving herself to her Mistress.
***TH***: :nods:
Pirate Russell: ***tY***, standing up for yourself might not be taken very well by your Dominant
***tY*** (smile, and usually isn't)
***LA***: I understand what you're trying to say, yes...it can get in the way...that's when having a good Dom/me is so important...one that recognizes the signs - isn't it important for the Dom/me to care for their sub/slaves to ensure they do not burn themselves out as well?
Pirate Russell: I understand now. Well, outside of a scene, I invite My girls to tell Me if they have problems, ESPEECIALLY if it impacts O/our rleationship
***ZB***: As a Dom I personally feel a girl who lacks self-love and respect is trouibling, even thouse who are more interested in masochism or humiliation. In my experience a girl with little sense of self will cause harm to all involved in the relationship down the line, herself and her Dom/Domme.
***tY*** I ask the question because I have seen in other submissives the potential problems alligned with selfworth and a desire to please
Pirate Russell: Well said!
***tY*** the desire to please can override SSC
***TH***: :wonders what SSC stands for :
Pirate Russell: And that's fine, as long as it's a concious decision
***tY*** safe, sane, consetual
***tY*** consentual
***TH***: :nods :
***lC***: ssc = sexually sucking cock , giggles
***ZB***: *nods...I agree Miss ***tY***. However Miss Russel, I feel that even if the sub makjes the choice conciously, I as her Dom should not let her overide her own safety in order to "please" me.
Pirate Russell: CLIT, thank you very much, connie! ;-)
***ZB***: I know it sounds patronizing, but as a father, just as a Dom, I cannot let my child or sub make a choice that would harm themselves, even if they honestly desire it.
***ZB***: At least that is my personal view..others milage may vary
Pirate Russell: I agree, I have a 19yr old girl, and 14yr old boy, as well. I don't expect My girls to ever do anything in game or out, that would compromise who they are
***tY*** I am not trying to be contrary here, just mentioning things I have noticed pertaining to the topic
Pirate Russell: Or what makes them happy or have fun.
Pirate Russell: It's fine, ***tY***, you're the only one asking questions anyway! he he
***tY*** giggles
***ZB***: *nods...Of course Miss ***tY***, and we have all seen such girls. Personally I feel the desire to please no matter the cose is not true submission, and is usually found in thrill seekers or poeple exploring the lifestyle as a game.
***ZB***: *cost
***IM***: Or people searcing for their self worth in others.
***tY*** not sure I agree with you there, but my experiences maybe quite different
Pirate Russell: Most of them though are not serious submisives. As ***ZB*** said, they treat it as a game here in SL, and don't really invest in it
***ZB***: *nods..and that is not submission, that is mental illness of some degree which should be treated not by some guy on the other end of an internet connection, but a doctor.
***tY*** I wonder how the desire to please isn't a key component of submission or slavery?
Pirate Russell: Only if they're serious about it, if they log on, slap on a collar and giggle when they're spanked, they're not 'into' this like most of us are!
***lC***: ... may i ask what is meant with saying something is mental illness ?
***TN***: The desire to please can be overwhelming as I suspect te is indicating
***ZB***: it is not the desire to please...we all have a desire to please, even the dominants...what is at question is a desire to please even while hurting or damaging themselves
***IM***: Focusing on any one aspect of a relationship to the exclusion of the others is always a problem.
***tY*** that's true, we should all have a desire to please if we are in a relationship.. I just have doubts as to whether a submissive can always find it within herself to say "no" if that desire to please is strong
Pirate Russell: But yes, I agree. Look at those who prey on children, the children usually do things to ingratiate themselves to the preditors
***ZB***: I did not seek to belittle mental illness, or indicate submissionis a form of it..I meant that often someone who seeks their value only through another could need medical or psychiatric help, and a Master may actually be harming oir betraying their interests by not guiding them to seek help
Pirate Russell: Yes, te, I have a HUGE desire to please My girls, by being the most humiliating, strongest Domme I can be!
***tY*** to me a submissive by her very nature, may find it more difficult to say no
***TH***: :raises her hand: rasies her hand:
***TN*** nods quietly, finding much to agree with in te's words and thouughts
***ZB***: I agree...so it is up to a Master or Mistress to say no for them...no matter what they may wish
Pirate Russell: Yes, Terra
Pirate Russell: A good Dominant will take care of ,and respect THeir submissives!
***TH***: :thank you .. what if it is done to explore /or find what there limits are ?
Pirate Russell: Even as they take away their clothes at a busy mall, or spanking them
***tY*** and if a submissive has less ability to say no, because of her very nature, does that indicate a lack of self worth, or a desire to please?
***BH*** blushes
***IM***: girl agrees with ***ZB***. It's the seeking value *only* through another that causes the problems.
Pirate Russell: Well, I know you're new to My classes, but, Terra, Communicate with your Dominant or submissive, let them know what's going on!
***lC***: ... seeking onesself in how they play out the lifestyle in having someone give value to thier life is by far from mental but rather obtaining a high in thieer life
***ZB***: nods...the way to know limits is to discuss it, then discuss it again, then discuss it some more
***TH***: :nods: thank you :
Pirate Russell: And one more thing ***ZB***...... Talk again after that, AND after the Scene
***ZB***: especially after the scene, even stelling out of the D/s roles if need be
***ZB***: *stepping
***TH***: was trying to retalte that back to the going overbord in tyring to please even when it may push ones limits.. :
***ZB***: *nods in full agreement with Miss Russell
***TH***: thak you..
Pirate Russell: Absolutely, I am HAPPY to step out of D/s roles if ANYONE, Dom or sub, needs to talk!
***IM***: Saying no is not the same as disobeying, though. Mistress would be upset if girl damaged herself, even if it was doing what Mistress told girl to do. And it would lessen the gift of self.
***ZB***: There needs to be a moment when person to person you ask what is going on with them, and what effect the situation is having on them.
Pirate Russell: Hell, I'm upset when I damage My girls! Injure is FAR different than "hurt"!
***IM*** smiles The "C" word.
Katelyn Brendel loves that word
***ZB***: Absolutely Miss ***IM***...asking Why oir saying No is not disobeying and should be encouraged, as long as it doesn;t then become defiance...and if a girl finds herself having to say No continually to a Master..she needs a new master
***IM*** nods
Pirate Russell: Yes, I pimp "Communication" at least once a class! Talk with your Dominant, Talk with your submissive, Talk with your peers!
***tY*** I suppose I come at this from a slightly different angle than some, I have been slave and submissive
Pirate Russell: Remember, we're all in SL for one thing! FUN, if you're not having fun, or getting what you want from a Scene or Relationship, RE-EVALUATE!!!!!!
***tY*** that is good advice, Miss Pirate
***ML***: yes i completely agree with that!!
Pirate Russell: If you avoid logging in, or HOPE someone'st not on, you're not doing it right!
Pirate Russell: you can be whatever you want to be in SL!
***tY*** but sometimes I am here for the challenge as well, and a challenging situation may not always be fun :)
Pirate Russell: Yes, te, "Fun" is too generic, but you enjoy callenging yourself, yes?
***tY*** yes
Pirate Russell: and challenging yourself, too!
Pirate Russell: Ok, that's in that VERY broad defination of "FUN"
***tY*** and challenging others sometimes as well .. chuckles
***ML***: as a sub is it ok to challenge your domme to see what limits you can find?
Pirate Russell: While you're getting your ass whipped, it may not be fun, but it may be what you're looking for here!
***ZB***: *smiles at Miss ***tY***..Oh, one of THOSe..are you sure I haven;t dommed a few alts of yours?
***tY*** laughs, I am sure you have not, Sir ***ZB***.. I have worn the collar of only one
***RP***: *giggles*
***ZB***: Miss***ML***, I would say yes...a good Master will see that behavior for what it is
Pirate Russell: A good *Mistress* will too, ***ZB***! he he
***tY*** wonders what one of THOSE is..
***ZB***: *bows his agreement...Master/Mistress/Dom/Domme/Signifigant Other/Scary Dude with Whip
***RP*** laughs
Pirate Russell: Or Dudette!
***LA*** laughs!
***IM*** giggles
***ZB***: Challanging Women, Miss ***tY***..I have a weakness for challanging women
***RP***: *giggles*
Pirate Russell: All kidding aside, subbies, you're allowed to enjoy yourself, and Dominants, look out for your submissives!
***ZB***: If she's got the whip, I call her whatecvwer she damn well wants, Miss Russell
***tY*** it might be a fair assessment to say I was somewhat challenging.. *looks over to her sisi*
***CJ***: *laughs*
***CJ***: *somewhat*
***tY*** giggles
***RP***: I tend to find that most "real" Masters like a challenge
***RP***: most don't like it over easy
***RP***: it gets boring kind of like a trophy wife
***RP***: who wants someone with no opinion
***ZB***: I agree Miss ***RP***...if I am going to hunt, I hunt bear, not puppy
Pirate Russell: I collar My girls for their pesonality, we're all pretty, with huge whatevers, and shaven other things. If I want a blowup doll, I'm sure someone makes one here in SL SOMEwhere!
***IM*** laughs
***LA***: hahahah!
***RP*** laughs to the point of tears
Pirate Russell hunts pussy, but that's another show!
***ZB*** sends Miss Russel the LM
***tY*** yes, I have often wondered that, the desire of a dominant is to control, if He/She manages to have "total control" is he or she chopping off his nose to spite his face?
***ML***: oOooo when can we see this show miss?
***RP***: not at all te
***BH*** looks hown a her not do huge parts
Pirate Russell: Come down here for a little bit, ***ML***! he he
***IM*** giggles
***ML***: hehehe..
***RP***: while I am very submissive, it's my nature, I'm not a pushover, I aim to please so that is easy, but I am not a carpenter's dream
***ZB***: Miss ***tY***, a true master would never completely break a girl....a faux master may, but if he does, I expect he will be onto a new girl quite soon, and leave someone else to try and put the broken girl back together
***RP*** agrees
Pirate Russell: Big difference between submissive and doormat is VERY important to Me
***IM***: D/s is a team, not a contest.
***ZB***: The purpose of a MAster, to be is to build a girl up, not break her down
***ZB***: *to me
***IM*** nods to Sir ***ZB***.
Pirate Russell: Exactly there is no "I" in "Team" but there is "Eat Me"
***ZB*** laughs and laughs
***ML***: on my way miss!!
***RP*** loves Mistress Russel's classes
***ML***: so do i rose!
***KC*** nods
***tY*** yes, I wonder if though in reality, some of the zing is gone if the dominant is successful in their quest.. my understanding of them is that the "hunt" or the "journey" is of interest primarilly.. the conclusion, is not so desirable
Pirate Russell HATES them, but is glad to do them for y'all! ;-)
***RP*** smiles
***tY*** and as many people do not have long term D/s relationships in here, that seems to indicate that part of what I say, at least, is true
Pirate Russell: Life, and relastionsips, are a journey, not a destination
***ZB***: *considers...For some you may be right ***tY***. For me, submissives, like all women, are endless mysteries..just when I think I have a firm handle on things, she changes
Pirate Russell: Let's see, I've owned ***BH*** since the end of January, and W/re an old C/couple!
Pirate Russell: er W/we're
***ZB***: My last sub I had collared for 3 years, and we parted as close friends because she needed to seek a different path
***ZB***: we still speak daily
***tY*** that is a considerable amount of time, Sir ***ZB***
Pirate Russell: My wife, I've owned in 3 different Avitars for 3 years, almost
***tY*** that impresses me actually
***RP***: impressive in sl standards to say the least
***ML***: how wonderful!!
***ZB***: to a degree, the length of time was part of the problem..we knew one another too well, I could not effectivelly give her the edge she needed
Pirate Russell: Something I'm proudest of are the RELATIONSHIPS, not the Collars!
Pirate Russell: VERY cool that y'all could realize that and work with it
Pirate Russell: To birng this back.... I'm glad that y'all didn't let the jealousy possible in new relationships, affect your long standing friendship
***ZB***: I love her very much...and wanted to make sure she was getting all she could from things...the things she needed from a master I could no longer give her, so I gave her what a friend could, the right to move on
Pirate Russell: If you love something, set it free, if it doesn't come back, HUNT IT DOWN AND KILL IT!
Pirate Russell: I mean, ...... it wasn't yours to begin with!
***tY*** she had that right all along, though she would have appreciated greatly your understanding of the situation
***RP***: hehe
***ML***: miss pirate is going to bring out the hunter in me yet!
***ZB***: nods...Jealousy was an issue we dealt with a great deal....and strangely, getting past it helped us move on to a new sort of relationship
Pirate Russell: We're hunting wabbits!
***ML***: sqeeks!!! scared of wabbits ;)
***ZB***: I agree Miss ***tY***. but there is a difference between taking a right, and being gifted with a right....it is always yours, but the tone is different
Pirate Russell: Just use your Holy Handgrenade!
***ML***: heheheh
***tY*** yes, I agree with that
Pirate Russell: But yes, ***ZB***, a right and a gift are 2 far different things
Pirate Russell: By ***BH***'s gift of sbumission, I have the RIGHT to whack her in the head if I choose
***RP***: I prefer to gift a right, then it comes from my heart, if someone takes a right, I'm submissive, I may not say anything but the resentment is building and that is not good for either
***ML***: ouch poor ***BH***!
***ZB***: well, whacking tends to take precedence over most things
Pirate Russell: I said I have the RIGHT, not the desire!
***tY*** the girl always has the right to leave.. as it is about 'safe, sane and consentual".. though she will always appreciate the dominant's understanding of the issue
***IM***: And the right to communicate what is working and what is not.
***tY*** yes ibrew
Pirate Russell: I's not even a gift or right, in My Family, it's an Rule, " Rule 1b) Since this is a game, if you're not having fun, tell Me, we'll do something else, or we'll play separately for a while, or for good. But please TELL ME!"
***tY*** though "this is a game" suggests that one is merely RPing or pretending, surely?
***BH*** tries not whimper thinking about hand grenades and whacks in the head
***ZB***: somes games are quite serious...
***ZB***: When work is play for mortal stakes....
Pirate Russell: Yes, and no, Yes, most of RP whipping of asses, but no, the releationships in SL are not a game for Me.
***tY*** I think of sl as a game, but what happens here between people, isn't
Pirate Russell: And I'm only a Cyber Domme, I don't get to strip girls and whip asses in RL
***ML***: its pixels with real people behind it searching for what they lack in rl!
***ZB***: the cartoon with an animated penis is a game..the emotions and the thoughts behind said cartoon with an animated penis..are no game.
***RP***: communication is important in finding out the other person's motivations because you could end up emotionally damaged rl if you are giving of yourself and building a "relationship" and it is just merely part of the other's "game"
***IM***: Ask any professional athlete about their "game"
***TH***: Nods
Pirate Russell: Thanks for saying My WORD, Rosetta!
***RP***: *giggles*
***tY*** I have seen a lot of emotional or psychological damage in SL.. because people treat whatever happens here as a game, instead of realizing that SL is the game.. what people do here isn't
Pirate Russell: yes, I have had some 'friends' that were not invested in releationships here, and some that have married in SL to a partner that was playing, when they weren't
***RP***: it's sad
***ML***: aww
Pirate Russell: But the FRIENDS I talk to, really.......... wait for it.......... Communicate with, we know that the friendships are real, though all they'll ever see of Me is this little Cartoon
***ZB***: well, cartoons are powerful..don;t even get me started on the attachment of meaning to symbols
***ML***: yes !! everyone must remember behind ever avi is a real person behind there! i enjoy my friends i have here and wouldnt change a thing about them
Pirate Russell: Well, I think we need to end before ***ZB*** becomes a Zealot on that subject
***RP***: I'd always said in my next life I'd come back to a realm where men had babies, I'd do 100 of em a day give em the wrong name impregnate them then leave, LOL, but I don't dare do that here, because I treat people the way I want to be treated
***ML***: lol
***ML***: wow .. what a visualization!
***ZB***: 100 a day....?
***ZB*** swallows hard
***RP*** nods, this one does have a deep seeded hatred for men at times
***RP*** smiles
***RP***: but I'm a sweetheart
***TH***: : nods;
Pirate Russell: No you wouldn't , if men had babies, we'd already be EXTINCT!
***ZB***: Just thinking of 100 a day makes my back hurt
***ML***: hehehe
***IM*** giggles
***RP***: true Mistress Russell, very true
Pirate Russell: And on that note...... CLASS DISMISSED!
2008/08/19 8:18

Friday, August 15, 2008

Polyamory & Jealousy - Thursday

[13:07] Pirate Russell: Welcome to House of V's College of Kink, My name is Pirate Russell, Head Mistress of the College, and today's instructor. I have been in SL for nearly 3 years, a lesbian Domme, the entire time.
[13:08] Pirate Russell: Our topic today: Polyamory and Jealousy
[13:09] Pirate Russell sighs, lag is affecting Me as well, if this gets long, the transcript will be at http://www.collegeofkink.blogspot.com
[13:09] MystiTool HUD 1.0.23: Entering chat range: Astarte Inglewood (19m)
[13:09] Pirate Russell: Polyamory (from Greek πολυ [poly, meaning many or several] and Latin amor [literally “love”]) is the desire, practice, or acceptance of having more than one loving, intimate relationship at a time,
[13:09] Pirate Russell: WITH THE FULL KNOWLEDGE AND CONCENT OF EVERYONE INVOLVED.
[13:10] Pirate Russell: What Polyamory is NOT.
[13:11] Pirate Russell: Poly is NOT Swinging, Swinging has a different focus. Swingers focus on recreational sex, though friendships and deeper bonds may develop. With polyamory, deep relationships are the focus, though the sex is often fun.
[13:11] Pirate Russell: Poly is NOT a girlfriend on the side. That is something different as well. The technical term for that is "cheating." Cheating means "fraud, deceit, swindling."
[13:11] Pirate Russell: The very definition of Polyamory includes "with the full knowledge and consent of everyone involved".
[13:12] Pirate Russell: Rules: There are, of course, as many different varieties of polyamory as there are people; there's no one right way to create a polyamorous relationship, though ethical polyamorous relationships do involve honesty, respect, and compassion.
[13:12] Pirate Russell: Being polyamorous does not give you license to make like a bunny in heat.
[13:12] Pirate Russell: A polyamorous relationship isn't about sex; it's about building a romantic relationship with more than one person at a time.
[13:13] Pirate Russell: In fact, people who can't commit to one person sure as hell can't make a lasting commitment to two!
[13:13] Pirate Russell: Basic Terminology
[13:13] Pirate Russell: --Primary - word often used in a hierarchal multi-person relationship to denote the person with whom one is most strongly onded
[13:14] Pirate Russell: make that "Bonded" at the end
[13:14] Pirate Russell: --Secondary - follows from primary, in a hierarchal relationship,denotes a person with whom one is involved without the emotional,legal, or economic complexities and commitments of primary bonding.
[13:14] Pirate Russell: --Triads or Triangles - three people involved in some way. Often used in a fairly committed sense, in some cases involving ceremonies of commitment, but also used simply to mean "three people who are connected".
[13:15] Pirate Russell: --"V", "W", "N", etc - Three people, where the structure puts one person at the bottoms, or "hinges" of the figures, also called the pivot points. For example, a vee, the arm partners are not as commonly close to each other as each is to the pivot.
[13:15] Pirate Russell: One question that usually comes up is, "Shouldn't one mate be enough?"
[13:15] anmaerlice Mayo: whispers right next to you its real laged so wait
[13:16] Pirate Russell: First, no one person is a perfect fit for another, or we'd not have friends. We'd pair up, go home and never log into SL, or Yahoo Instant Messenger.
[13:16] Pirate Russell: We'd never call anyone but our *Perfect Match*
[13:17] Pirate Russell: That extends to more intimate relationships, as well, in RL I LOVE My husband dearly. But he's only got a penis, I LOVE to give oral sex to women, too!
[13:17] Pirate Russell: I don't do that in RL, but in SL I get to all the time, remember I'm "Mono-sexual". It doens't mean I love him any less!
[13:17] Pirate Russell: It's like when you have children. Just because you have a second child, it doesn't mean you love the first any less....
[13:18] Pirate Russell: Questions or comments regarding this VERY basic overview of Polyamory?
[13:19] ***CP***: lag killed me getting here whats the basic definition? sorry
[13:19] Pirate Russell: Polyamory (from Greek πολυ [poly, meaning many or several] and Latin amor [literally “love”]) is the desire, practice, or acceptance of having more than one loving, intimate relationship at a time,
[13:20]***AK***: [13:09] Pirate Russell sighs, lag is affecting Me as well, if this gets long, the transcript will be at http://collegeofkink.blogspot.com
[13:20] ***CP***: thank u sorry for being late
[13:20] Pirate Russell: WITH THE FULL KNOWLEDGE AND CONCENT OF EVERYONE INVOLVED.
[13:21] ***CP***: don u think its hard to find a woman that would sign up for this?
[13:21] Pirate Russell: Thanks ***CP***, it won't be up probably 'till later, however... possibly MUCH later
[13:21] Pirate Russell: I would and My SL wife would. She'd move here in a New York Minute, if My Hubby signed off on it!
[13:21] ***RD***: not hard at all
[13:22] ***CP***: yes in SL yes, in real life i must be in the wrong cirlces US is so conservative on secaulity
[13:22] Pirate Russell: It's all about the relationsips, the sex comes from those, it's not like swinging whre you hook-up first, THEN get to know someone
[13:22] ***KO***: that's b/c the US is very conservative in some regards
13:23] Pirate Russell: VERY TRUE, the churches and the government, only recognize marriage as one man, and one woman, anything else is WRONG, and until very recently ILLEGAL in some places in the US
[13:24] Pirate Russell: Well, a few isolated places recognize 'Gay Marriage', as well, but generally speaking this is the case
[13:24] ***RD***: but..Ms Russell..the example you just used about your husband and your SL partner -does- indicate sexuality plays a lard part.." he only has a penis" does not sound as if you are supporting your own statemetns
[13:25] ***RK*** thinks she is 'swinging' wrong as she gets to know them first then decides about sex.
[13:25] Pirate Russell: Yes, it would, but I fell in love with twolipps a LONG time ago, This is her 3rd avi, I've known her nearly 3 yrs here
[13:25] ***TN*** smiles as Europe leads the way in enlightenment in this regard....in comparison
[13:25] Pirate Russell: And that's part of the problem, He doesn't know her
[13:25] ***CP***: 2nd life seems to be so much more free, but I do find when I get close to woman, that intamacy, not just sex, is really seems to be of paramount concern and many women I meat monogomy is synonomous with true intamacy
[13:26] ***CP***: sorry for the type errors
[13:26] ***CP***: even in 2nd life most women I meet in the end want true intamacy
[13:26] Pirate Russell: Ok, guess it's time for My quick little speach.... he he.... it's all about the RELATIONSHIP, and relationships take...... COMMUNICATION
[13:27] Pirate Russell: Each relationsip, Vanilla or D/s, or even a quick hook up, takes some kind of communication to establish what W/we want
[13:28] Pirate Russell: I LIKE intimacy, and know that My girls, ***BH*** and ***IM***, here like it too!
[13:28] ***CP***: good point, any thoughts on how to bring up this subject?
[13:28] ***CP***: with a partner
[13:29] ***RD***: friendship
[13:29] Pirate Russell: That's a tough one, actually, but it's similar to anything you'd want to 'try'..... spanking, handcuffs, whipped creme, etc
[13:29] Pirate Russell: just gotta talk about it, I know on HBO there's a show about polygamy (multiple wives)
[13:29] Pirate Russell: the title escapes Me, at the moment
[13:30] Katey Koskinen: Big Love
[13:30] Pirate Russell: Thanks, Katey
[13:30] Pirate Russell: Yes, that's it
[13:30] Katey Koskinen: ; )
[13:30] ***CP***: sorry for the questions very curious
[13:30] ***RK***: open and honest about what one hopes it will bring to any relationship, concerns too.
[13:30] Pirate Russell: Not to worry, I have some websites at the end, that may help, too!
[13:30] ***CP***: are the girls in this forum up for this, could u ask ?
[13:31] Pirate Russell: I think you just did, but save that for after class, ***CP***z.... he he
[13:31] ***CP***: i dont mean for me
[13:31] ***CP***: in general
[13:31] ***CP***: in rl?
[13:31] Pirate Russell: LOL
[13:31]***AK***: They are here arent they ???
[13:31] Pirate Russell raises her hand, and even if it meant hubby could have a GF, toO!
[13:31]***AK***: They want to know more first cuzz
[13:32] ***CP***: good point ;)
[13:32] Pirate Russell: Unfortunately the introduction of a new... partner.... to a relationship can cause jealousy
[13:33] Pirate Russell:
[13:33] Pirate Russell: Now the hard part... Jealousy
[13:33] Pirate Russell: First, this is not a class on jealousy, I will do that class next week, this is a class on Polyamory and how jealousy is generally handled in Polyamorus relationships.
[13:33] Katey Koskinen whispers....please excuse me--RL calls....
[13:33] Pirate Russell: Ok, katey
[13:34] Pirate Russell: Jealousy typically refers to the thoughts, feelings, and behaviors that occur when a person believes a valued relationship is being threatened by a rival. Jealousy is not about what the other person is getting, it's about what you're not getting.
[13:34] Pirate Russell: "Envy" is when it's about what the other is getting, and you're not
[13:35] Pirate Russell: At it's root, jealousy is the fear that you are going to lose something.
[13:35] Pirate Russell: But if you're bringing someone else in, you already have a strong relationship, because you've discussed it and want to try
[13:35] Pirate Russell: Some people seem to have no jealousy; it's as if they didn't get that piece installed at the factory. Others, including some long-term polyamorists, feel jealousy, which they regard as a signal that something needs investigation and care,
[13:36] Pirate Russell: much as they would regard depression or pain.
[13:37] ***CP***: i need to expand, thinking hard cant think of a single girl I know that would not be crushed by the thought of not being the center of thier partners world
[13:37] Pirate Russell: Working through this is one of the greatest rewards of multi-partner relating.
[13:37] Pirate Russell: The ability to live in world where the expression of love with another person is not seen as a message that you are somehow worth less to your partner is a much freer and more full place to be than in a world of fear over imagined losses.
[13:38] ***CP***: point taken
[13:38] Pirate Russell:
[13:38] Pirate Russell: Citations:
[13:38] Pirate Russell: http://www.xeromag.com/fvpoly.html
[13:38] Pirate Russell: http://www.polyamory.org/
[13:39] Pirate Russell: http://www.unmarried.org/polyamory.html
[13:39] Pirate Russell: http://www.polyweekly.com
[13:39] Pirate Russell: I took stuff from all these websites, and they all explain it MUCH better than I EVER could!
[13:40] Pirate Russell: And something that helps Me with jealousy, even nonxual jealousy, is knowing that My partner is having FUN!
[13:40] Pirate Russell: Ok, ***CP***, to address your 'expansion'. Not everyone is cut out for a poly lifestyle
[13:41] Pirate Russell: There are poly forums, messageboards, and even dating sites
[13:42] Pirate Russell: Any other questions.... comments??[13:43] ***KC***: is jealousy a problem for Mistresses as well as sub/slaves
[13:44] Pirate Russell: It can be and that is what next week's class will be, thanks for the lead in! LOL
[13:44] Pirate Russell: But it depends on the submissive and/or Dominant
[13:44] Pirate Russell: And the relationship.
[13:44] Pirate Russell: There are times where I'm jealous of My girls, and other times I'm not
[13:45] ***KO***: wait..Mistresses get jealous? of what?
[13:45] Pirate Russell: I allow, and even encourage, My girls to have other friends, most have 'special friends'
[13:45] ***KO***: oooh ok
[13:45] ***KO***: that makes sense lol
[13:46] Pirate Russell: sometimes I get jealous of what they have, and that they're not with Me, but then I remember that they're off having fun, and I'm good again. I LOVE each of them enough to want them to be happy
[13:46] Gracie Hotshot is Online
[13:46]***AK***: Question: Would not getting jelouse show lack of feeling and compasion for your Dom/me-or Sub?
[13:47]***AK***: eg
[13:47]***AK***: I dont care
[13:47] Pirate Russell: ***BH***, ***IM***, care to field that one?
[13:47] Pirate Russell: And I DO get jealous, I don't let it color My actions very often.
[13:47] ***IM***: girl thinks acting on it would, but it's a natural feeling.
[13:48] ***KO***: I wouldn't know from experience..but I would think it would be a problem if you got jealous of one girl but not another
[13:48] StarFire Majestic is Online
[13:48] Pirate Russell: If I see ***IM***'s with her BF, and summon her out of jealousy, it runs her fun, and lessens My control over Me
[13:49] Pirate Russell: or ***BH*** and her pet, different dynamic, but same reasoning
[13:49] Pirate Russell: EEP, RUINS her fun....
[13:49] ***TN***: and if you choose to summon her- not out olf jealousy but because you require her
[13:49] ***TN***: does that not also ruin her fun etc
[13:49] ***RK***: hmm interesting question if jealous is simply a lack of confidence in one's own ability to be loved, even if others are too ... having that confidence should not mean, necessarily, that a girl did not care? Merely that she thinks she's set in her place?
[13:50] Pirate Russell: Yes, and that's different, that is a concious decision I'd make, not an emotion controlling Me
[13:50] ***TN***: the end result could be the same tho?
[13:50]***AK***: Pirate you share, but what about those that want to have a poly relationship but wont alow there subs to share through there own Jealousy?
[13:50]***AK***: IS that wrong?
[13:50]***AK***: Or a case of greed
[13:51] Pirate Russell: No, it's not, but the submissives have the right to be happy, (Another class.. he he), that is something that should be discussed LONG before a collar is offered
[13:52] Pirate Russell: It could be greed, but then it may be what a submissive e is looking for
[13:52] ***TN***: possibly a moot point there Pirate......but I agree totally - any such thoughts need thorough discussion prior to any collaring
[13:53] Pirate Russell: Moot or not, if a submissive should find out their prospective Dominant's heart on MANY things before just jumping into a collar
[13:53] Pirate Russell: wow, typo day, scratch the first "if"
[13:54] ***TN***: I was thinking of the outcome of calling one's sub....not the point about discussion and Communication, smile
[13:54] ***RK***: May i ask, does poly mean that everyone is a 'family?' Can it also be healthy if all parties do not have to hang out together or know what everyone else is doing, or getting for that matter?
[13:55] Pirate Russell: Ok, yes, calling a sub when they're with someone else is always an option, and done for Dominance, I think is ok, but letting jealousy or greed control your actions is never a good situation.
[13:55] ***TN*** would agree with that
[13:55] ***TN***: Good point rainey
[13:56] Pirate Russell: rainey, that is the 'Classic V' formation, each leg of the 'V' goes off in a direction, and dont' 'meet' (though RL meetings happen all the time, but not necessarily for sex), but they don't interact directly
[13:57] Pirate Russell: A 'W' is even more extended each partner could have another partner, Some do make families, some have 'Uncle Jim" living in the spare room, some don't live together at all. Each Relationship is different
[13:58] ***KL***: in a poly relationship is it normal to have one partner be of more importance than another
[13:59] Pirate Russell: It's possible, and maybe even usual, but I shy away from 'normal' because each of My SL, and RL, relationships are so different, even from one day to another
[14:00] ***RK***: i think it was more that some might promote honest in a poly relationship must mean everyone is privy and present for everything. raine is not sure that is true. Honesty does not mean i have to meet or be a part of everything.
[14:01] Pirate Russell: Well, it all depends, I'd want to know if My hubby was dating, but not a blow-by-blow description of what they did on Tuesday night
[14:01] Pirate Russell: All it means is that everyone knows that there are significant others, and are OK with the relationship(s)
[14:03] Pirate Russell: Tarl on the other hand, if he was in a poly situation, might want to know where his wife/girlfriend was, where they went, etc. Each relationship is differnt
[14:03] ***KO***: how would someone handle jealousy in a poly relationship where the Master has multiple subs, but does not allow them to play, but shows different levels of attention to the girls?
[14:04] Pirate Russell: Assuming that the girl(s) are dissatisfied, that's where communication comes in. Even if it takes and OOC conversation
[14:06] ***RK***: at different times, any person may need a bit more attention than others. Have learned to be careful about that one.
[14:07] ***TN***: Again....honesty and communication........not relying on psychic powers
[14:07] Pirate Russell: Yes, as have I, I TRY hard to keep time with each girl the same, but usually fail miserably
[14:09] Pirate Russell: But that's one thing I told My girls at the begining, they're not My only one.
[14:09] Pirate Russell looks around, anyone else?? anything else??
[14:10] Pirate Russell: Comments, questions, dirty jokes?
[14:10] Pirate Russell: Going once.........
[14:10] ***KO***: ooh someone have dirty jokes plz!
[14:11]***AK***: Great Class.
[14:11] Pirate Russell: .......................going twice...
[14:11]***AK***: How do we find out about the next
[14:11] Pirate Russell: .....................................................Class dismissed
[14:11] ***TN*** smiles - Thank you Pirate
[14:11] Pirate Russell: I post events, under 'College of Kink @ House of V'
[14:11] ***ML***: thanks Pirate
[14:11] ***KL***: thank you Pirate for your time and teachings
[14:11] mercedes Stransky: Thanks Pirate
[14:11] Pirate Russell: but we're here EVERY Tuesday at 7am, and Thursday at 1p
[14:12] ***KC***: thank You so much Miss for such an awesome class
[14:12] Pirate Russell: Y'all are welcome, it's My pleasure, and seeing so many show up is KEWL!
[14:12] Pirate Russell: Well, thanks for coming, you can't come back next week, unless you bring a friend, and the blog with the transcripts is at http://collegeofkink.blogspot.com/

House of V's College of Kink